Inmotion V13 Speculation

[UPONIT]

7 hours ago, Clem604 said:

Yes this is true, I'll have to feel out the Sherman when I get it and go from there. Currently on my V11 I ride from North Van to downtown then do a big ride around the seawall and around Van then head back home. With the Sherman S I hope to do a North Van to Richmond or perhaps a NV to New West ride. Having a larger battery (for me) just opens up more possibilities for where I can explore. 

So how long would you estimate your longest rides are, and how often do you do those? 60 miles once a week?

What's the longest distance you've ever ridden your V11 on a single charge?

1 hour ago, Murdomeek said:

Different riding styles for different people in different cities with different traffic/road patterns.  

I have a 3200wh OG sherman, and there are plenty of weekend ride cruises that I can't do because of the lack of battery. And I'm not wasting my weekends sitting around an outlet to charge. Faster riding speeds mean more battery is needed.  Imagine speeding up/down Marty's mountain road rides.  Now imagine doing three of those mountains in a single ride     (Cyclists do that in my city, they call it the 'triple crown')

Oh I get that for sure. I'm trying to get a sense of where the V13 may sit in the spectrum.

What current wheels cover those needs? And what wheel if any do you  intend to buy for those weekend cruises?

[Clem604]

14 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

So how long would you estimate your longest rides are, and how often do you do those? 60 miles once a week?

What's the longest distance you've ever ridden your V11 on a single charge?

My longest ride has been up to 100km's (62 miles). The longest distance I have ridden on my V11 on a single charge is 71km's (44 miles) and that was me riding it from 100% battery until it hit 3% in perfect summer conditions. Keep in mind that I'm 5'9 and weight around 200lbs fully geared up (195lbs with no gear).

Edited January 11, 2023 by Clem604

[UPONIT]

9 minutes ago, Clem604 said:

My longest ride has been up to 100km's (62 miles). The longest distance I have ridden on my V11 on a single charge is 71km's (44 miles) and that was me riding it from 100% battery until it hit 3% in perfect summer conditions. Keep in mind that I'm 5'9 and weight around 200lbs fully geared up (195lbs with no gear).

Thanks for the info! So you feel the V13 won't be able to make 62 miles with your riding style? Or is it that you want to be able to go further in the future?

What range do you expect to get from the Sherman -S (ballpark)?

[Clem604]

16 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Thanks for the info! So you feel the V13 won't be able to make 62 miles with your riding style? Or is it that you want to be able to go further in the future?

What range do you expect to get from the Sherman -S (ballpark)?

The V13 MAY be able to make it 62 miles but I can't say for certain but I know the Sherman S can. On Adam's (Wrong Way) Sherman S review he got up to 112km's (69 miles) riding an average of 31.9km/h (19.8mph) in winter conditions 5C (41F) on the same roads and trails that I ride here in Vancouver (lots of hills). I don't doubt that I could get much more than that riding at a lower or the same average speed in summer temps.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Clem604

[Steve Evans]

30 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Thanks for the info! So you feel the V13 won't be able to make 62 miles with your riding style? Or is it that you want to be able to go further in the future?

What range do you expect to get from the Sherman -S (ballpark)?

with my v12 i will do 60 mile rides and would do more if the battery was bigger. my v12 gets about 45miles per charge but due to placement of charging spots and the fact i dont like riding <35% charge i have to charge twice on that trip. that's 60-90 minutes waiting around to charge

ideally i would want a wheel with a real mileage of 100 miles per charge, but that is not available on a non-begode wheel. so the sherman S is the next best thing. if the v13 had a 4800 wh battery i would be buying that.

mid-ride charging is a real pain. not only for waiting, but those fast chargers are heavy.

i dont know what to expect from my sherman S since everyone's mileage is different (based on rider weight, tire inflation, temp etc) but its my best bet at this point

btw, i ride some really lovely paved greenways that are very long in my area.

steve

 

[MrMonoWheel]

4 minutes ago, Steve Evans said:

with my v12 i will do 60 mile rides and would do more if the battery was bigger. my v12 gets about 45miles per charge but due to placement of charging spots and the fact i dont like riding <35% charge i have to charge twice on that trip. that's 60-90 minutes waiting around to charge

ideally i would want a wheel with a real mileage of 100 miles per charge, but that is not available on a non-begode wheel. so the sherman S is the next best thing. if the v13 had a 4800 wh battery i would be buying that.

mid-ride charging is a real pain. not only for waiting, but those fast chargers are heavy.

i dont know what to expect from my sherman S since everyone's mileage is different (based on rider weight, tire inflation, temp etc) but its my best bet at this point

btw, i ride some really lovely paved greenways that are very long in my area.

steve

 

Depending on your speed it's doable. But if you don't want to go under 35% I'd say it's cutting it close.

[techyiam]

If one only cared about range, one would have bought a Master Pro.

 Begode maybe out for some because of insufficient waterproofing, uncompetitive quality and safety, and gets too much exterior damage in a fall.

Master Pro in particular is out for some, also because they don't like how it rides.

Next down the ladder are 3600 Wh wheels. The Sherman-S stands out right now out in this group if you also want suspension. 

If you like the way it rides, then you have found your wheel. The end.

If you like the way it rides, but have flirtatious eyes, you go out and continue to test other wheels, even if they have less range.

You got a taste of the V13, and you want more. But not enough to dump the Sherman-S without being more sure.

This is the type of dilemma we all face. There are going to be compromises that need to be made. But things get more complicated because we don't really know how much we will really like a wheel until we have at least a thousand miles on it.

So reality strikes, and we end up doing the best we can, and buy a wheel and see how it unfolds.

The cool kids buy a few, and hedge their bets. For the rest of us, we will have to wait for the next round and try again.

Edited January 12, 2023 by techyiam

[Paul A]

Maybe wait.

V14 will have more battery.

Sherman S Pro will have more speed.

S23 will have more battery and speed.

And weight will increase to 120lbs... 

[techyiam]

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

S23 will have more battery and speed.

For me after having watched through Kingsong's S20, S22, and S22 Pro releases, at best they have relegated themselves to offroad with big hits. The T4 can be a strong competitor. 

They have brung too little, too late. I will not hold my breath for them to bring out something in the Sherman-S class, or the 22" class.

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Sherman S Pro will have more speed.

If enough people like the way Sherman-S rides, it will be a success the way it is.

I rather have Leaper Kim come out with a 22" suspension wheel.

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

V14 will have more battery.

This may help in sales. The sweet spot for battery in 2022/23 could be 3600 Wh?

24 minutes ago, Paul A said:

And weight will increase to 120lbs... 

People who are buying Sherman-S's or V13's are not living on the fourth floor with no elevators.

 120 lbs shouldn't be a problem, if 100 lbs is not a problem.

For example, @Clem604 likes the Sherman-S, but also the V13. And the weight of the V13 wasn't brought up as a big negative. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by techyiam

[That Guy]

I am reading this topic with a great interest trying to imagine the user case for a 50kg+ wheel...

I totally get it about the desire of higher build quality and the speed... But... The weight of the wheel is taking it out of the paradigm of "wearing EUC rather than riding it" when the EUC feels like your bionic extension and gives you the satisfaction of super-power of some kind... I am happy with my new Shermax although I feel it is right on the edge of my ability to be able to forget about its weight. I am not a small human, but I can hardly imagine I would be able to continue enjoying EUC even with a couple of extra kg - not even sure about ShermaS... Dunno... 

Most of V13's weight is made of perceived extra safety, which I personally see as an overdesign. In my opinion, most if not all EUC manufacturers are not actually suffering from under-design as such but rather from the combination of wrong design and poor work culture (stupid solutions, poor selection of sub-suppliers, random materials, etc.). V13 looks to me as if someone would build a house with extra-thick walls to make it look strong and warm. It wouldn't be bad by itself, but the visual quality of such a building by itself wouldn't convince me to desire it if it came with small rooms and tiny windows... I am not sure V13 would weight this much if Begode was a German company. 

[Cerbera]

If wheels become much heavier or bigger than this they will become impractical to trolley round shops, which is a fairly big part of their appeal and unique use case. We can't be dragging what is essentially half a motorbike round with us ! I haven't had problems with the Master so far (smaller than the V13, but in similar weight / size class), but I can tell more shop assistants are looking at it with suspicion than they ever did at my little Airwheel, or MS3...

Edited January 12, 2023 by Cerbera

[KiwiMark]

9 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

If wheels become much heavier or bigger than this they will become impractical to trolley round shops, which is a fairly big part of their appeal and unique use case. We can't be dragging what is essentially half a motorbike round with us ! I haven't had problems with the Master so far (smaller than the V13, but in similar weight / size class), but I can tell more shop assistants are looking at it with suspicion than they ever did at my little Airwheel, or MS3...

There's an easy solution to that!  Own multiple wheels, take the smaller one to the shops and take the bigger one on the fun rides.

e.g.

16" wheel (like my V12HT)- shopping, last mile, when you need to carry it up steps, etc.

18-20" wheel with long range (like my Sheman S) - fun rides, longer range rides, group rides, etc.

22" wheel (if I had a V13) - fast riding, group rides with fast riders, etc.

add more wheels for any type of riding that the first 3 wheels aren't working well for.

[Cerbera]

56 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

Own multiple wheels, take the smaller one to the shops and take the bigger one on the fun rides.

Well if I had unlimited dollars.... of course. I kinda don't care what size wheel it gets tried out on first, but hopefully the V13 will sell well enough to encourage them and other manufacturers to also make future smaller, more manageable wheels at a similar kind of quality - we have already seen Begode promise to follow suit and build a high quality, ultra safe machine next (we'll see how well that goes  ). Generally, everyone is feeling pretty safe and secure on that machine, and our best chance for getting legal recognition / classification is for all the manufacturers to follow that path. We are as big and heavy and fast as we need to go, and wind force permits, now the only major way to improve is to make that power smaller, lighter and safer, which won't be easy until the next battery revolution finally reaches commercial scale.

[That Guy]

3 minutes ago, KiwiMark said:

There's an easy solution to that!  Own multiple wheels, take the smaller one to the shops and take the bigger one on the fun rides.

e.g.

16" wheel (like my V12HT)- shopping, last mile, when you need to carry it up steps, etc.

18-20" wheel with long range (like my Sheman S) - fun rides, longer range rides, group rides, etc.

22" wheel (if I had a V13) - fast riding, group rides with fast riders, etc.

add more wheels for any type of riding that the first 3 wheels aren't working well for.

May start looking for a new wife, too... 

[KiwiMark]

3 minutes ago, That Guy said:

May start looking for a new wife, too... 

Aiming for performance or comfort?

[onizukagto]

1 hour ago, That Guy said:

May start looking for a new wife, too... 

Brand new or second hand? 

[Josiah]

These bumpers are on the site now at Clarkpads.com they look great.  I’m thinking of getting them to help protect the wheel.

[novazeus]

8 hours ago, Cerbera said:

If wheels become much heavier or bigger than this they will become impractical to trolley round shops, which is a fairly big part of their appeal and unique use case. We can't be dragging what is essentially half a motorbike round with us ! I haven't had problems with the Master so far (smaller than the V13, but in similar weight / size class), but I can tell more shop assistants are looking at it with suspicion than they ever did at my little Airwheel, or MS3...

maybe not a fair assesment of it's functionality, because i'm trolleying the s22 over rough terrain and shops and stuff are nice and smooth, but the s22 handle is not the best leverage point and that 75 pounds gets kinda wonky. it does have a kickstand which would definitely help going about ur shopping. the s18 trolleys better, but u have to lean it, and with foam on it's handle it "stays" pretty well.

the v13 presents two "challenges" to my eyes, and maybe it's because of the orange frame ktm i have, it screams "steal me" because of it's glamour. the second is, temporary parking which could be accomplished with a nice kickstand that at $4k, and considering it will cost them about a dollar to make probably because they are so efficient at mass production, why not include it for free. it's just smart. don't discount ur product, give the customer everything they need to get going. kickstand, cover, etc, whatever u can think of, especially if ur cost as the manufactuer is next to nothing. i did that with houses. i'd give the customer something that he'd probably screw up, like a masonry privacy wall, but not a frig or anything else he could buy easily. 

instead of the bean counters running everything, u gotta think of marketing. if u don't sell, no matter how good ur product is, ur going out of business. everything a manufacturer can do, that costs him very little, like good video instructions, kickstands, seats, etc etc sb included, for $4k.

just my opinion from my perspective of selling stuff u build. if it costs u very little, just toss it in, don't make ur customer hunt for it. i'm pretty sure everyone would use a kickstand on the v13, maybe not the seat, but they look cheap to make to me, idk, i'd say toss it in for goodwill and i'm one that would never use it, but others will think, man, inmotion has me covered. 

like i'm sitting here with two gas heaters and still don't have 50 cent fittings the china companies could have included, but some bean counter figure by saving 50 cents per device would generate $50k more revenue on a 100k units. but the ill will and bad reviews could put them out of business, although i've concluded all the positive reviews are fake.

when the videos start rolling in, i hope to see, v13 shopping videos, going to stores and just doing mundane things like picking up a prescription or going to the doctor's office, and the human's and animals reactions to everyday use in everyday scenarios.

i've not dealt with any of that yet except a couple laps around a restaurant so my friends could see one, and i had a deer in headlight situation with diners leaving the restaurant, i know y'all know alot about the perils on sidewalks and multiuse paths, like i learned on motorcycles by trial and error, like who not to follow, what wheel rut to run in, etc. interstate with it's wide pavement, and no access roads is where i felt the safest. down here, nobody knows what the left stem is for so left turns into bikers kills the most.

[Clem604]

51 minutes ago, Josiah said:

These bumpers are on the site now at Clarkpads.com they look great.  I’m thinking of getting them to help protect the wheel.

It makes the wheel look like a transformer. I see it has a seat included in the package.

 

[Josiah]

25 minutes ago, novazeus said:

second is, temporary parking which could be accomplished with a nice kickstand that at $4k, and considering it will cost them about a dollar to make probably because they are so efficient at mass production, why not include it for free. it's just smart. don't discount ur product, give the customer everything they need to get going. kickstand, cover, etc, whatever u can think of, especially if ur cost as the manufactuer is next to nothing. i did that with houses. i'd give the customer something that he'd probably screw up, like a masonry privacy wall, but not a frig or anything else he could buy easily. 

instead of the bean counters running everything, u gotta think of marketing. if u don't sell, no matter how good ur product is, ur going out of business. everything a manufacturer can do, that costs him very little, like good video instructions, kickstands, seats, etc etc sb included, for $4k.

just my opinion from my perspective of selling stuff u build. if it costs u very little, just toss it in, don't make ur customer hunt for it. i'm pretty sure everyone would use a kickstand on the v13, maybe not the seat, but they look cheap to make to me, idk, i'd say toss it in for goodwill and i'm one that would never use it, but others will think, man, inmotion has me covered. 

 

All good points here novazeus. 
 

I’m wondering if the V 13 in a way is like a Formula One car.   Stripped down to the bear essentials to increase performance.

[Josiah]

6 hours ago, Clem604 said:

It makes the wheel look like a transformer. I see it has a seat included in the package.

 

I ordered the set in orange.  I do prefer the stock look but seems like with such a pricy wheel it needs the bumpers.  Especially because I’m new to this and expect to dump the wheel often.  I’ll let you guys know how it all works together with the flow pads that shipped today! And functioning as a seat so, that’s two birds.  

Edited January 12, 2023 by Josiah

[Clem604]

4 hours ago, Josiah said:

I ordered the set in orange.  I do prefer the stock look but seems like with such a pricy wheel it needs the bumpers.  Especially because I’m new to this and expect to dump the wheel often.  I’ll let you guys know how it all works together with the flow pads that shipped today! And functioning as a seat that’s two birds.  

That's a good idea since your new to this. You can always sell them after when you've become one with the wheel or just keep it. I look forward to seeing what you wheel looks like with all the add ons. Good call on the aftermarket pads, while I thought the front acceleration pad were excellent, the rear pads leave more to be desired as the braking pad just isn't large enough to leverage the wheel under hard braking IMO. You can see in Dawn's video she uses the front handle to brake the wheel every time she came to a stop. It might be because she's tiny but I felt the need to use the handle too when I was attempting to stop quickly.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Clem604

[UPONIT]

Devil's advocate here: I've trolleyed the V13 around a little and it's just not that big. It's not unwieldy. It's 114 lbs. Would I want to carry it up several flights of stairs? No. But I could. So I wouldn't get it if I needed to get it up stairs and couldn't.

I don't enjoy carrying my V11 up stairs either but that's life and physics. It weighs 65 lbs. It has a 2200W motor that won't make it up some hills in my neighborhood and a 1500Wh battery. The V11 is still on the market if your main concern is weight.

(The V12ht is turning out to be very fun. It is compact and very well-made and it can make it up all the hills. So now I will be able to wait (I hope) to see how the V13 turns out longer term before deciding whether I "need"  it.)

I feel sorry for manufacturers. "Make a wheel with 1,000 mile range that can hit 70 mph and is safe and waterproof and durable. But it has to weigh 50 lbs and cost $2,000."

15 hours ago, That Guy said:

I am reading this topic with a great interest trying to imagine the user case for a 50kg+ wheel...

Most of V13's weight is made of perceived extra safety, which I personally see as an overdesign. In my opinion, most if not all EUC manufacturers are not actually suffering from under-design as such but rather from the combination of wrong design and poor work culture (stupid solutions, poor selection of sub-suppliers, random materials, etc.). V13 looks to me as if someone would build a house with extra-thick walls to make it look strong and warm. It wouldn't be bad by itself, but the visual quality of such a building by itself wouldn't convince me to desire it if it came with small rooms and tiny windows... I am not sure V13 would weight this much if Begode was a German company. 

The V13's weight comes from more durable composites, extensive metal use, heavy duty trolley handle, strong rim, 3000Wh of batteries, a huge motor, potting of the batteries for waterproofing, etc. It is extremely well designed and thought out. It's also made by InMotion, not Begode.

I have several German woodworking machines. They are extremely accurate and durable. They are also twice as heavy as cheaper machines. Weight is a desirable quality for some purposes. For other purposes it is unavoidable unless you use very expensive high tech materials. Then they cost 5 times as much. Do you see the paradox?

There are unavoidable laws of physics and economics at work here. So we choose what is important to us and decide accordingly. But we shouldn't demand the impossible.

[Josiah]

6 hours ago, Clem604 said:

“while I thought the front acceleration pad were excellent, the rear pads leave more to be desired as the braking pad just isn't large enough to leverage the wheel under hard braking IMO. You can see in Dawn's video she uses the front handle to brake the wheel every time she came to a stop. It might be because she's tiny but I felt the need to use the handle too when I was attempting to stop quickly.”

That was with the large grizzla flow pads that Marty added to the wheel she was using.  She still grabbed the handle to break.   In snowboarding competition the judges give extra points for grabbing the board. 

Edited January 12, 2023 by Josiah

[Impoy47]

11 hours ago, Josiah said:

These bumpers are on the site now at Clarkpads.com they look great.  I’m thinking of getting them to help protect the wheel.

 

10 hours ago, Josiah said:

I ordered the set in orange.  I do prefer the stock look but seems like with such a pricy wheel it needs the bumpers.  Especially because I’m new to this and expect to dump the wheel often.  I’ll let you guys know how it all works together with the flow pads that shipped today! And functioning as a seat that’s two birds.  

Thanks for this. I ordered the Clark pads armor and the grizzla flow pads. So I figured since we're getting a pre-ordered discount, why not spend some armor  for insurance and comfort for the long rides.  Still being forced to work OT,  which means I paid for this wheel 5x over already!!

So I have a 43 mile each way commute to work but luckily I am able to stay at my brother's house (10 miles) during work days.  But for some reason after working 16+ hours a day I perk up and get excited for my 10 mile (one way) commute, I try to stretch it out to a 16 mile given the energy and weather.  And this is with my KS s18, which lacks the power and speed in some areas that are spotty  with no bike lane and turns into 35+ mph share road. Some vehicles go 45+ mph and I get sketchy when I get passed on the shoulder coz of that gush of wind like a trucker just passed you by. But that's just  2-4 portion of my commute which is about 200-600 yards depending on my route i take. But those are time I wish I had a faster euc, like the V13!!

Since we've been getting battered by this atmospheric rain here in sunny Ca.,  I hardly have time to ride in the winter, but still make an effort to commute when it's not pouring rain. I'm done with the rain but could be worse in some areas affected from flooding and blizzard.  So I'm thankful for every ride and good weather ahead.  I get why this sudden rush of being alive and the freedom of riding and an EUC. Words can't describe sometimes..

This is how I feel waiting for my V13 as well..

Edited January 13, 2023 by Impoy47