Inmotion V13 Speculation

[Eyss]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

And their first impressions of the V13 are diametrically opposite. 

Might be due to dawn using custom pads and Denis using the stock pads. 

[Paul A]

Affiliate commissions might be documented evidence of sales, as a result of a video by a YT reviewer.

[conecones]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Denis Hagov has a riding weight of 242 lbs. And he is not a small person. 

Dawn Champion is 5'4" and said the weight of the V12 is close to her body weight.

And their first impressions of the V13 are diametrically opposite. 

She, a small and light rider, feels the big and heavy V13 does everything well.

On the hand, Denis Hagov, a big and heavy rider, feels the big and heavy V13, is ponderous and not responsive.

How can that be?

You are taking too much of a scientific perspective on what these "testers" say, and rather you should be taking it with a huge bag of salt because they don't put any real mileage on the wheel and don't show any useful data to supplement these highly subjective opinions on how a wheel feels. The most useful video so far is still Kuji's where he demonstrated everything from big drops to acceleration test (with data) and of course the flavour of the year which is stairs stairs and more stairs. You don't really need anymore information to make a purchase decision than what Kuji showed in that one video alone. Definitely don't need to sit through 1.5hr video from someone who clearly hasn't read the manual or ever used the Inmotion app before.

Also remember Marty likes every wheel and Denis doesn't have the best read even as a retailer. Remember how he slammed the Mten4 while first batch sold out everywhere?

[Clem604]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

@Clem604 will tell us after tomorrow's V13 demo ride. 🙂

Actually, it may not rain during tomorrow's demo ride. Hmmm.

Yep, I'm making it out on my break from work to try the V13. I'll try to detail my experience with the wheel as much as possible. Hopefully less people show up so I can have more time with it 😄 My review will be based on my height (5'9) and weight (195lbs)

Is there anything specific about the wheel you guys want me to take a look at? 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Clem604

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, conecones said:

You are taking too much of a scientific perspective on what these "testers" say, and rather you should be taking it with a huge bag of salt because they don't put any real mileage on the wheel and don't show any useful data to supplement these highly subjective opinions on how a wheel feels.

I don't agree. Watching Dawn accelerate gave me a good idea as to how a V13 could accelerate under a rider who is not big nor heavy.

Out-of-the-box Abrams doesn't accelerate like that, and even with stock pads, it was still lacking. 

10 hours ago, conecones said:

The most useful video so far is still Kuji's where he demonstrated everything from big drops to acceleration test (with data) and of course the flavour of the year which is stairs stairs and more stairs.

On the contrary. In the traffic, I don't ride like him. It may be great for riders who do. It's analogous to Wrongway riding up stairs backwards. That doesn't help me at all. It may garner more views for his videos, but it doesn't help me to evaluate the wheel in question to assist my purchasing decision for my use case.

For me, as it turns out, the reviewers whose videos that have helped me in my buying decisions were Madpack, Kevin (e-rides), Frenchusa, and Duf. After owning the the wheels, I discovered that some of their opinions are aligned closer to mine than others. 

I starting to like what Dawn has to say. But I can't be sure the usefulness until I can confirm with my actual ownership experience of said wheel.

10 hours ago, conecones said:

Also remember Marty likes every wheel and Denis doesn't have the best read even as a retailer. Remember how he slammed the Mten4 while first batch sold out everywhere?

Correction. For Marty, it is every Gotway/Begode/Extreme-Bull wheel that is larger than 16", with the exception of the mten series. It is Chooch who raves about every wheel, hoping to maximize the number of viewers who would use his affiliate links.

Denis is a dealer. But he trashes wheels. What gets me is that his seriously negative opinions are not even shared by many. Crazy.

Edited January 10, 2023 by techyiam

[UPONIT]

On 1/8/2023 at 10:40 PM, Hellkitten said:

https://t.me/EUCVancouver/13538

Thanks for that link!

SHOWN: V13 is nimble, weaving in and around posts, tight turns, carving. V13 can bunny hop and jump in an urban environment/skateboard area.

17 hours ago, Eyss said:

I wouldn't send him one either. He's banned from the main Facebook group for a reason.

 

Finished watching Dennis hagovs review. Having doubts again about it especially the comments about slow speed control. 

About 60% of my commute is on a bike path so I'd be doing about 30kph. If it's too unstable then I wouldn't able to use it. 

For those of us who are anti-social media, can you tell us why Chooch was banned, and from what main group?

16 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Lols - Yeah I said MORE responsive, not necessarily responsive  Not that I think that epic acceleration and fast braking from high speed matters that much unless you plan to use this wheel for racing - as long as you are aware of its characteristics you can probably ride reasonably safely within them. The thing that I found most interesting about Dawn's video particularly was that she still had to do the extreme braking lean almost right to the full stop - I would have expected it could stop with much less effort from much slower speeds, and that didn't seem to be the case...

She definitely changed her mind about the V13 from that first time riding it to the livestream she did today. That is a GOOD thing. Nowadays, ppl get crucified for changing their minds, which translates to "don't learn, don't grow, don't explore, don't keep an open mind."

And, like all humans, once she changed her opinion (adapted) the old opinion faded quickly and she doesn't seem to remember it very strongly. Makes sense. Yay, Dawn!

9 hours ago, techyiam said:

Denis Hagov has a riding weight of 242 lbs. And he is not a small person. 

Dawn Champion is 5'4" and said the weight of the V12 is close to her body weight.

And their first impressions of the V13 are diametrically opposite. 

She, a small and light rider, feels the big and heavy V13 does everything well.

On the hand, Denis Hagov, a big and heavy rider, feels the big and heavy V13, is ponderous and not responsive.

How can that be?

Mood? Phase of the moon? Fight with spouse? UV radiation? Hypnosis? Headcold?

The race to get videos up quickly seems to play a big role in reviewers' shaky 1st impressions... I mean even the experts take at least a few hours/miles to adapt to a new wheel and start to discover its nuances. Maybe Denis will ride it some more and change his opinion? Or not. I'm sure he means to be as "honest" and objective as possible, but objectivity isn't a human strength.

Either way, he is only one person.

[Uras]

18 hours ago, Cerbera said:

It might not be as dark and Machiavellian as he imagines. They may just have looked at the size and weight of the guy and thought - he is not heavy enough to show this machine has decent acceleration and braking ! I have noticed that the V13 seems to take a very long time to start and stop unless the person riding it is a proper unit ! I have similar issues on the Master, which is itself slightly too heavy for my weight, so I too would also be a hopeless V13 demo guy...

I don't think his size or weight will effect his skills. Wrongway also had issues with v12ht 

 

[mlau]

13 hours ago, techyiam said:

Denis Hagov has a riding weight of 242 lbs. And he is not a small person. 

Dawn Champion is 5'4" and said the weight of the V12 is close to her body weight.

And their first impressions of the V13 are diametrically opposite. 

She, a small and light rider, feels the big and heavy V13 does everything well.

On the hand, Denis Hagov, a big and heavy rider, feels the big and heavy V13, is ponderous and not responsive.

How can that be?

I'm around Denis' weight and height, and I do agree with him a bit.  I tried to launch it (is that the correct word?) from wet uneven grass,  but was not able to,  i.e. it felt like the wheel didn't want to accelerate at all
With out-of-the-box settings, it does take its time to provide power, but I feel that slow speed handling isn't worse than the V12. I do wish the COG was lower though. The standard tire is also not ideal, I feel a street tire would suit me better.

Edited January 10, 2023 by mlau

[onizukagto]

Huh. Guess it's a positive that inputting is listening to the community and actively updating the software... But I'm not too sure how you would use this feature? Anyone care to enlighten me? 

[rebeuc]

24 minutes ago, onizukagto said:

Huh. Guess it's a positive that inputting is listening to the community and actively updating the software... But I'm not too sure how you would use this feature? Anyone care to enlighten me? 

A common issue with EUC involves riding around track areas with sharp turns (which usually have a 'berm' along one side so you can kinda go up the side of a little hill and ride sideways to take the corner harder)

Many EUCs historically have had a 45 degree cutoff angle, where if the wheel tilted more than that while riding it would completely cut off, which would cause the riders to fall at bad times when taking these sharp turns.

Some wheels got firmware updates where this was disabled or a toggleable option, but others did not and for those where you couldn't disable it they were problematic and avoided for this riding scenario.

This sounds like something inmotion is doing to have a warning at the typical 45 degree angle, but not a cutout, and only do the cutout at a sharper angle of 65 degrees. I like that better than just cutting out with no warning.

Hopefully they still have the option to disable cutout in this scenario entirely for those who do like to do extreme track riding. (I don't have much of a sense of whether 65 degrees as they have chosen is enough or not, as this is not a limit I have ever tested)

[rebeuc]

8 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

Hopefully they still have the option to disable cutout in this scenario entirely for those who do like to do extreme track riding. (I don't have much of a sense of whether 65 degrees as they have chosen is enough or not, as this is not a limit I have ever tested)

Try taking the wheel here to find out:

 

[Paul A]

1 hour ago, onizukagto said:

how you would use this feature?

 

Bicycle velodromes have an angle of over 40 degrees in the steepest parts of the track.

A rider leaning at the steepest part of the track, could thus have an EUC greater than 45 degrees, relative to the Earth's surface, and cut out.

 

[Mango]

Berm mode is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS in it's current implementation.

Once Berm mode is switched on in app setting, it only needs to activate in real world use when the wheel is moving 3km/h and faster, to prevent the spin-out in that Toronto demo day video. It would be like a reverse lift-switch. Imagine if the lift-switch button worked while wheel is in motion. Instant faceplant. It only activates when the wheel is stopped, for good reason. Same can be said for Berm Mode. It should only activate when the wheel is in motion, since you go into an embankment, berm or angled track at speed.

Inmotion needs a firmware update immediately before people hurt themselves when a wheel is accidentally tipped over when it's NOT MOVING.

[Paul g]

A dog or a kid could have been hurt 😔  ❤️ 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Paul g

[rebeuc]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

Berm mode is INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS in it's current implementation.

Once Berm mode is switched on in app setting, it only needs to activate in real world use when the wheel is moving 3km/h and faster, to prevent the spin-out in that Toronto demo day video.

I may have missed this; have a link to the specific video in question?

[Paradox]

5 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

I may have missed this; have a link to the specific video in question?

https://t.me/inmotionV13eng/5616

[rebeuc]

4 minutes ago, Paradox said:

12 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

I may have missed this; have a link to the specific video in question?

https://t.me/inmotionV13eng/5616

Wow, yeah, that is incredibly dangerous and could easily hit someone

Edited January 10, 2023 by rebeuc

[Paul A]

16 minutes ago, Mango said:

people hurt themselves when a wheel is accidentally tipped over when it's NOT MOVING.

 ?

[Paul A]

34 minutes ago, Paul g said:

A dog or a kid could have been hurt

 

Reply by Dawn Champion on the video.

_______________________

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by Paul A

[conecones]

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

I don't agree. Watching Dawn accelerate gave me a good idea as to how a V13 could accelerate under a rider who is not big nor heavy.

Out-of-the-box Abrams doesn't accelerate like that, and even with stock pads, it was still lacking. 

Yes, until a different smaller rider makes a video saying its hard to accelerate, and then you're going to be confused again. This is the problem with subjective opinions without data. Our V13 tester isn't big or heavy and blows the socks off everyone when riding his stock-everything Abrams. Skill & confidence with the wheel has the most to say about what a wheel can or can't do.

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

On the contrary. In the traffic, I don't ride like him. It may be great for riders who do. It's analogous to Wrongway riding up stairs backwards. That doesn't help me at all. It may garner more views for his videos, but it doesn't help me to evaluate the wheel in question to assist my purchasing decision for my use case.

Kuji's video showed that V13 is comparable to Master in acceleration, which is actually useful because we all know what the Master can do at this point. You don't need to ride like him to apply this information. It's because of this information that when I stepped on the V13 and couldn't crank it, I knew it was a ME problem and not a wheel problem - I knew that instead of waiting to find yet another review to make up my mind, I just needed more time with the wheel.

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

For me, as it turns out, the reviewers whose videos that have helped me in my buying decisions were Madpack, Kevin (e-rides), Frenchusa, and Duf. After owning the the wheels, I discovered that some of their opinions are aligned closer to mine than others. 

I starting to like what Dawn has to say. But I can't be sure the usefulness until I can confirm with my actual ownership experience of said wheel.

Correction. For Marty, it is every Gotway/Begode/Extreme-Bull wheel that is larger than 16", with the exception of the mten series. It is Chooch who raves about every wheel, hoping to maximize the number of viewers who would use his affiliate links.

Denis is a dealer. But he trashes wheels. What gets me is that his seriously negative opinions are not even shared by many. Crazy.

So you like reviewers that talk a lot and ride casually. Nothing wrong with that but splitting hairs or over-analyzing such reviews tends to be a waste of time IMO, especially for a high performance wheel. Opinions change all the time but the wheels themselves don't, which is why I'm saying hard data is most important. If I were to shop for a sports car to drive casually to work, I don't need someone to tell me how easy or not it is to use the radio or turn on the AC - I can do that myself on the test drive. I would want someone like the Stig to pin it around the track (out of my intended purpose and skill level) to evaluate its performance compared to others in the same category with data such cornering ability, engine behaviour/acceleration, braking, etc., so that I know what it's strengths and weaknesses are, what I'm actually paying for, and if there's anything I should watch out for if one day my use case changes and I want to push it a little.

I don't know if you're on other platforms but I'm finding that there's a big part of the community not on these forums that only use Telegram/FB/IG and these are the places where (if you're willing to sift through the drama), you find many more reviews/tests of wheels under real use cases by riders of all skill levels. A lot of riders don't have the time to make nice Youtube videos but their opinions are valuable due to their riding experience and hence you only find this on those platforms.

[Paul A]

Road design, speed rating for a road/cycle path.

Perhaps a pedestrian, bicycle path, is not designed for speeds of 50mph / 80 kph.

A silent EUC, passing from behind, at high speed, on a narrow path.

________________________________

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_speed

Geometric features

The design speed chosen for a high-speed roadway is a major factor in choosing superelevation rates and radii of curves, sight distance, and the lengths of crest and sag vertical curves.^{[citation needed]} Roads with higher design speeds require wider lanes,^[2] sweeping curves,^[2] wider recovery areas,^[2] broader clear zones,^[2] steeper curve banking,^{[citation needed]} longer sight distances,^{[citation needed]} and more gentle hill crests and valleys.^{[citation needed]}

Roads and streets with lower design speeds require narrower lanes,^[2] sharper/tigher curves,^[2] smaller or no clear zones,^[2] less banking, less sight distance, and sharper hill crests and valleys.^{[citation needed]}

Edited January 10, 2023 by Paul A

[OldFartRides]

I read all the comments on the high speed run(s) on the bike path. Many expressed concern on the safety aspect.

Some saw no problem at all with the proceedings.

Marty pushed back on most, but grudgingly pledged to “do better” in the future. And of course Dawn’s response above.

Heres the link to the clip on ew-tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqbevoSPKFQ

As one forum member pointed out to me before, no amount of finger wagging will prevent riders from riding unsafely around others. It is, indeed a sad fact and inevitable. 

 

 

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

Yes, until a different smaller rider makes a video saying its hard to accelerate, and then you're going to be confused again. This is the problem with subjective opinions without data. Our V13 tester isn't big or heavy and blows the socks off everyone when riding his stock-everything Abrams. Skill & confidence with the wheel has the most to say about what a wheel can or can't do.

Irrelevant since I already witnessed what a small and light rider, who was on her first ride, can do in acceleration on a V13.  And I saw how she did it. That is enough data for me. No confusion whatsoever. I got a useful data point.

 

1 hour ago, conecones said:

Kuji's video showed that V13 is comparable to Master in acceleration, which is actually useful because we all know what the Master can do at this point. You don't need to ride like him to apply this information. It's because of this information that when I stepped on the V13 and couldn't crank it, I knew it was a ME problem and not a wheel problem - I knew that instead of waiting to find yet another review to make up my mind, I just needed more time with the wheel.

Kuji's video provided you a useful data point, that's great. But it provided me nothing though.

You are making an assumption that Kuji was able to max out acceleration on both wheels, and his data would accurately apply equally to you as a rider.

Dawn also felt she could accelerate harder on her Masters than on the V13 she got from Marty, at least for the time being. 

1 hour ago, conecones said:

So you like reviewers that talk a lot and ride casually. Nothing wrong with that but splitting hairs or over-analyzing such reviews tends to be a waste of time IMO, especially for a high performance wheel.

Not what I said.

I watched and heard what the reviewers say, and on hindsight after having owning the wheels in questions, I compare notes.

For example, like many of us, I watched many reviews, read many posts on social media, do my due diligence prior making a purchase. Madpack went out of his way to say how great the V12 was. He also hyped the Abrams way beyond what others would say it is. So it is very hard to believe his words. I am sure that there are plenty of riders out there who don't think the V12 nor the Abrams are the greatest thing since sliced bread.

As it turned out, after owning them, what do you know, I really like the V12, and also the Abrams, at least up to this point. A lot of the over-the-top things he said I found them to be true, at least in my use case. Who knew. One small example. He claimed that the V12 is similarly agile as an Inmotion V8. When I heard that in his video, I go whatever, right. Guess what, I found that my V12 is more agile than my T3, and I don't need a wheel more agile than my V12.

Another example, take Duf in his top speed tests. He makes trial runs after trial runs while all being recorded. I could see how he got his top speed.

 

Edited January 10, 2023 by techyiam

[Paul g]

Dawn seems a nice person. I also ridden at high speed (around30kph- 19mph) near people and I realised it wasn’t OK and slowed down. We all do mistakes 🙄. I hope we all learn from them. I am usually slowing near people and animals(birds, dogs) but at that moment I let myself carried away. A good way to let people know you are approaching them from behind and not scare them is to whistle sing-I’ve learned that from a smart cyclist 🚴‍♂️( very grateful to him 🥹), it works very well 👍. I realised bells and alarms induce a state of danger and scare people unnecessarily so I don’t do that anymore ☺️❤️

[Clem604]

Guys, I promise I won't be going 50mph around the bike lanes in Vancouver tonight. Jokes aside I'm excited to try the wheel out for myself and see what all the buzz is about.

Edited January 10, 2023 by Clem604