Another fire!

[Cribbs]

All this discussion about fires, on here and amongst the YouTubers, is really starting to play on my mind and is spoiling my new found EUC love affair. In fact, I now find myself gazing fearfully at my Nikola Plus, (only 5 months old and hasn't put a foot wrong in that time).

Am I being irrational do you think?

[Zopper]

@Cribbs Our mind likes to give any bad event an undue attention. I would not let this to spoil my EUC love. ;-) Instead, take it as an opportunity to check your fire safety in general, think about possible escape routes, whether your fire extinguisher is in an accessible place or it is hidden underneath a heap of old clothes, and so on. And if you want to have a peace of mind, buy a fire blanket and use it as a dust cover for the Nikola whenever you are not riding it.  

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

6 hours ago, eucVibes said:

Did Gotway plan this to sabotage the Sherman shipment! ::Alex Jones Voice::

As far as I know there are two engineers who left Gotway and started Veteran, right? 

My guess is that there were actually three people who wanted to leave Gotway. But then they did it smarter and left one behind as a saboteur who will join Veteran later when the work is done.  

[conecones]

This is extremely worrying.

Fires during testing or during use after rain/falls, etc., I can somewhat understand as the product is being pushed to its limits. Also we cannot 100% be sure there weren't modifications to the battery/BMS.

However this fire occurred during transit straight from the factory with no modifications or stress from usage - this is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. Even the famous hoverboard incidents of 2015/2016 never once did I recall seeing reports of fires in unopened packages. Most incidents occurred during charging or after charging (so people had already used it/stressed the components in unknown ways).

Hoverboards then received international attention and its imports were banned from many countries and it was not allowed in many places (school, malls, work places, etc.). However since then, new hoverboards being sold in retail locations are now generally UL certified (UL2272, https://www.ul.com/hoverboards), but their reputation in the public opinion hasn't really recovered as they don't appear to be very popular anymore. I'm also not sure if many locations that previously banned it has reversed that ban.

EUC's are still relatively unknown but my fear is not so much that mine will burst into flames (based on statistics), but rather it might only take a few isolated incidents to reach the media/ general public, and the knee-jerk reaction will be to ban them or require UL certification since there is already this precedent with hoverboards. This may also extend to all less regulated PEV's in the grey market such as scooters and boosted boards. I have replaced my car with my EUC since last fall and so nobody (cops, malls/stores, work place) has given me any issues but this can all change with a few fires.

Nevermind the NYC guys riding like cowboys, that's nothing compared to this battery safety issue and this needs to be addressed and taken seriously by Gotway/Begode or else they risk losing their international market and we lose our ability to enjoy this activity legally/semi-legally. An apology letter from Gotway is meaningless, we should be demanding proof by seeing what design changes are being implemented so this can NEVER happen again.

Luckily E-bikes have been embraced and supported by big bike manufacturers and there's no need to worry they will be going anywhere.

[AtlasP]

16 hours ago, Cribbs said:

All this discussion about fires, on here and amongst the YouTubers, is really starting to play on my mind and is spoiling my new found EUC love affair. In fact, I now find myself gazing fearfully at my Nikola Plus, (only 5 months old and hasn't put a foot wrong in that time).

Am I being irrational do you think?

Once you've gotten past the first few months and several hundred miles without any symptoms, you're probably fine regarding the most blatant assembly/QA issues. Look up "bathtub curve": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

Edited January 15, 2021 by AtlasP

[Finn Bjerke]

Its been suggested the fires in them boxes hapnd becouse wheels were switched on under transport. Its a theory 

[Patrick Robert]

17 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Its been suggested the fires in them boxes hapnd becouse wheels were switched on under transport.

Yes. Had a new Mten3 myself in that container, which I cancelled and got a refund for, as I didn't want to take a chance. Had just received a brand new Nikola 100v just last week (my first Gotway and 3rd wheel after a V10F and a Sherman), and I went into a full 9.5 on the Richter scale panic attack over it! I was monitoring this thread as it first appeared 15 minutes after getting the email from eWheels. So wild.

According to the theory, it was a Gotway RS 19" that burned since it was left on. Very amateurish if that's the case. I'm sure they've blamed the intern, but what about their checklist? And what about sleep mode? My Nikola beeps and goes to sleep regularly when charging (I leave it on so I can monitor it). Gotway needs to update its safeguards against these things. Other manufacturers have improved their practices over time, Gotway only seems to jump into newer tech ASAP instead. Wrong priorities for a consumer product. If they're smart they will have learned a few things after the first hollow motor disaster of the 21st century. Maybe.

Came to my senses today, rode my new Nikola and loved it. After all, these things *are* rare, and a whole bunch of Teslas have been known to become crisp barbecues themselves and they're still selling like hotcakes. But the whole thing is an awakening to say the least. I'll never charge overnight again, will monitor the temperature as it's charging, will buy an ABC extinguisher to keep near, etc.
By the way, I've read in some other thread which mentionned Kuji's orange balls that lithium needs an ABCD rating. Lithium yes, but lithium-ion batteries fall under category C category B, I looked it up.
And no, I won't ever buy another Gotway as long as they don't show us clearly through improving their manufacturing and QC that they finally get it. I'm just hoping they don't "hoverboard" the whole EUC scene before that happens.
 

On 1/14/2021 at 10:04 PM, Finn Bjerke said:

EUC riding to work at arrival boss is saying: 

1. "Oh you are the guy riding with a firebomb between your legs ..... could you park it outside (the county) please?" 
2. "Are your balls fried yet ?" 
3. "..... Teach My mother in law that " 

You really cracked me up with that. Until I realized that I wanted to go back to the office one day on an EUC. For helvede! Maudite marde! (excuse my Danish and my French)

Back to the argument that a whole bunch of stuff with li-ion batteries has gone up in flames. Teslas, Samsung Note 7, hoverboards (ok let's not mention hoverboards), laptops... these batteries are all around us. But still, I'd be upset if they don't let me into the building with an EUC, even my good old V10F.

 

Edited January 16, 2021 by Patrick Robert
Corrected extinguisher type

[DragonFZ]

My Sherman was in that Shipping Container. I'm all for the Fire Sale or discount or a set of Honeycomb spike pedals.

[.....]

10 hours ago, AtlasP said:

Once you've gotten past the first few months and several hundred miles without any symptoms, you're probably fine regarding the most blatant assembly/QA issues. Look up "bathtub curve": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathtub_curve

Yup, and THIS is why quality companies (like Moog Music), run their in house built gear for days and days to 'burn in' and test. They have a room full of expensive gear that sits powered up and running 24/7. Some of the gear is quite less expensive than an euc however. Most electronic faults happen very early or very late. Proper QC of a vehicle capable of highway speeds, should include various burn in cycles and road tests. I worked a stealership for just long enough to make a fortune being the quality control worker for cars/trucks fresh off the hauler. Before I did the drive inspections/tests, all those engines were broken in and run at the factory. This is common practice when the company cares and/or has liability. So, what does this say about our beloved euc companies? Damn asshats, break the wheels in on a treadmill or something and turn the fukn things off. THEN have someone else check the power status, THEN send it for shipping and have THEM check the damn power buttons! Christ, how much could a ship fire costs? Millions? Human lives?

*lighly used and proven wheels have benefits

Edited January 16, 2021 by ShanesPlanet

[WI_Hedgehog]

On 1/14/2021 at 9:04 PM, Finn Bjerke said:

EUC riding to work at arrival boss is saying: 

1. "Oh you are the guy riding with a firebomb between your legs ..... could you park it outside (the county) please?" 
2. "Are your balls fried yet ?" 
3. "..... Teach My mother in law that " 

This is actually a HUGE problem in the U.S.A. Insurance companies are writing into their policies that vehicles used for personal transportation outside of necessary company business cannot be parked inside a building not designed specifically for vehicle parking. (You can't park your car indoors except in a parking garage.) This insulates the insurance company from non-business related risks, like your Ford Pinto being bumped by a forklift and burning the building to the ground. 

Because of this my Segway was banned from the building until I showed it was very safe and not likely to catch fire. 

Riding to work on an EUC...makes it a personal transportation vehicle. It's not used as a company fleet vehicle, so should be parked in the parking lot. This means your EUC cannot be parked under your desk, much less charged. (Forklifts and floor cleaners have a designated "safe" charging area not in an office/employee space.) Starting on fire without anyone even touching it...while in a padded container...new and unused...really, really bad from an insurance risk standpoint. 

@Jason McNeil appears to be proactively countering the risk by looking at third-party battery suppliers (not to speak for Jason or eWheels). Assuming this is true, this is exactly why I'll buy from eWheels instead of another source.