What is the real world range of the 16XS.

[GoBigGuy]

Hi,

Looking to buy my first EUC in the next few months and leaning towards the 16XS.

I’m about 170lbs and will be mainly using it on paved bike trails and going around town but do go camping a lot so some lite off road might happen.

I have an electric scooter I ride with my kids and normally go on ride 15 to 25 miles doing about 22 to 25 mph.

I like the weight/size of the 16XS but just not sure what the real world range is going 25 mph.

Thanks! 

[stephen]

If you mean the kingsong16x I'm 200lbs and at 25mph constantly  I'd probably get 30+ miles but my every day riding from anywhere to 10 -28mph I get 35+miles if i kept it to about 22mph probably 40 miles , I've had 45 but that's riding the low battery tilt  the battery is excellent 

Edited December 29, 2020 by stephen

[meepmeepmayer]

edit: Correction, the 16XS is 3p, not 2p, which makes the case for its safety better. I got confused about the battery cells used. Also I accidentally wrote 16S instead of 16XS. Original post follows.

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The 16XS has a relatively small (and therefore relatively weak) battery. I'm not sure you should go 25mph with it, whether that is safe. Probably not. And I'm not sure how long you can even do that before your speed gets throttled. Probably very quickly.

Ignoring that, just find some 16X range numbers and halve them (16XS has half the battery of the 16X) to get an idea. Be aware that a relatively high speed of 25mph is going to eat a lot of battery (mind that when looking at 16X range numbers - look for high speed 16X numbers). So you're not going to get a lot of range from the 16XS. Going by the post above me, expect 15+ miles, but I would guess you would get speed throttled heavily on the second half of that. So you won't go 25mph for 15 miles.

Long story short, the best thing to do here is get a 16X (or a similar priced, battery-sized wheel) You'll be safe at the speed you want to go (due to the bigger and more powerful battery), and you can hold that speed for a reasonable amount of time. You'll get the range that you actually need, going by the scooter rides you mention, with a bit reserves to spare, which is always good - for safety and fun (spontaneous ride extension).

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Some explanation why I think that:

Batteries are made of blocks of battery cells, connected in parallel. The 16X has 4 (edit: it's actually 6) blocks (called a 4p 6p battery), the 16S 16XS has half of that (2p 3p battery). The peak power output of a battery scales more or less with how many of these blocks you have. So one could roughly say the 16X is twice as powerful as the 16XS (as the battery limits what a wheel can do, along with the motor characteristics which matter mostly at high speeds).

Some example 2p wheels are the Inmotion V8 (19mph top speed) and V8F (22 mph top speed). People have managed to overlean (overpower) the V8 close to its top speed when a sudden bump or so appeared. V8 custom mods with a 3p battery behaved better there. What this means (in my view) is that a 2p battery is good for 20mph, after that it gets sketchy. For higher speeds, I would want a bigger battery to ride safely.

There aren't many 3p wheels sold, but the Gotway MCM5 is an example. Nobody managed to overpower that yet. Or the King Song S18, which is good, too. No problems there.

Even better are 4p batteries. These configurations are used in so many performance wheels (like the 16X), and I can't recall a single case where there was a crash because the battery was suspected to be too weak (as opposed to crashes at high speeds, where people went faster than they should have with the given motor).

 

So IMHO 2p isn't for fast and serious wheels, just for light or toy wheels. 3p is nice but the battery could be bigger (range!). 4+p is where the real fun starts, even if you just want to enjoy the range.

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Get the 16X instead If it's about money, I'd strongly prefer a used 16X to a new 16XS for your use case, the price should be comparable or favor the used 16X.

Edited December 29, 2020 by meepmeepmayer
corrected some errors

[Tawpie]

+1 to going with the 16X over the half battery one...

I haven't range tested my wheel but my current flat pavement extrapolation of my XS's range is 30 miles with absolutely zero range anxiety, at my nominal cruising speed of 12-13mph. This is based on flat road 10 mile round trip, 10mph average riding speed, 20% battery consumed.

Battery capacity is stated in units of power. Once you reach a constant speed your weight isn't much of a factor, but roughly speaking maintaining 20mph instead of 10mph theoretically uses 8 times the power. Your weight matters for changing speed (starting, stopping, accelerating) and hills (accelerating up). Power demand is related to the square of the weight being accelerated. Keeping 200 lbs upright going over a bump requires a near instantaneous 4x the power as it does to keep 100 lbs from faceplanting—that's why you want parallel packs, they are medical insurance. When your power system can't supply the power to keep you upright it has two choices: keep trying until something blows up or stop trying and shut down. Either way you will soon be one with the pavement.

But because speed, terrain and wind are so variable it completely depends on how you ride... I could probably go 60 miles if I went 10mph on a still day on a flat paved path with nobody to avoid and no off-piste distractions to explore. Kind of a boring way to spend the better part of a day though. Maybe sightseeing? Nah, still boring.

Did I mention you want the bigger battery? Always get the very biggest battery if you want safety margin at speed. Or range.

Edited December 29, 2020 by Tawpie
wordsmith

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

The 16X has 4 blocks (called a 4p battery), the 16S has half of that (2p battery).

Sorry, I have to correct you

16X has a 20S6P battery ( 2 x 20S3P) / one on each side (perfect balanced) 

16XS has a 20S3P battery ( 1 x 20S3P) / only on one side (not perfect balanced) 

[meepmeepmayer]

1 hour ago, buell47 said:

16XS has a 20S3P battery ( 1 x 20S3P) / only on one side (not perfect balanced) 

You're right, I was thinking of the new cells! I even did the math for 3p/777Wh

That makes it better.

But I still think the 16XS will throttle very quickly when going 25mph, and the meager range estimate doesn't change. But it is safer in terms of peak power than I thought.

[Seba]

1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said:

You're right, I was thinking of the new cells! I even did the math for 3p/777Wh

That makes it better.

Better, but not good enough  Still, also in my opinion 20S3 battery is too weak to consider buying KS-16XS, especially having riding at speeds of 25 mph in mind.

[Artullas]

I had a 16xs, and i like to ride fast, so i could do 30km max on mine. Very disappointing, as the speed limit get reduced so fast that after 15km i was getting tiltbacks at around 35-40 km/h

Just so you know, i now have a 16x and i can do 60 to 70 km on it, and i rode the s18 and did 50km on it.

My opinion is to not buy the XS

 

[Artullas]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:15 PM, buell47 said:

Sorry, I have to correct you

16X has a 20S6P battery ( 2 x 20S3P) / one on each side (perfect balanced) 

16XS has a 20S3P battery ( 1 x 20S3P) / only on one side (not perfect balanced) 

This is actually funny and unintuitive, but this unbalance is actually irrelevant in every situation i faced with the wheel.

In every situation it feels just as balanced as a 16x and even now, after having both wheels, i can't notice any difference when riding them. Perhaps the battery is so close to the axle that it has little leverage to force the wheel to the side

 

Speed and range should be the main concern here

[Planemo]

24 minutes ago, Artullas said:

In every situation it feels just as balanced as a 16x and even now, after having both wheels, i can't notice any difference when riding them. Perhaps the battery is so close to the axle that it has little leverage to force the wheel

Absolutely. I remember when people were saying the modded MSX's with extra packs on one side would be 'unbalanced'. Of course these same people hadnt ridden both versions...

Same with the Monster...did riders really notice the difference? Or maybe it was the placebo..

I think you would have to change a lot of weight to notice. Maybe taking half the packs out of a Sherman might do it, but even then I would wager the rider would accustom to it in very short order.

[EUC Custom Power-Pads]

I really hope you guys are right.

I will report back as soon as my MSP comes back with the one side battery upgrade from 1800Wh to 2250wh.  

[Artullas]

@buell47 don't even worry about that. If you notice any difference it should be in your head.

If the XS with a full 777mwh battery on one side and no battery on the other has little to no effect in our balance, this upgrade adding 450mwh to one side on your battery will be actually irrelevant.