[Question] Newbie Looking to Switch from E-Scooter to EUC in Seattle

[Jon - Seattle]

(hope this is the correct forum to ask this...)

My e-scooter (dualtron 3 - dual hub 3600w) was stolen in Seattle this past week :(

In the process of getting another one or making the switch to an ECU. I don't own a car.

I have a few questions I am hoping this forum can help with:

• 1) I commute about 1 mile each way however its either all up hill or downhill! I feel safe doing this with my scooter. How would this be for a newbie on an ECU (it can also get pretty wet here on the roads / side walks living in Seattle, how does that factor into ease of use/safety?).

• 2) My first scooter (800 watts) couldn't even come close to getting up the hills here so switched to a dual hub 3600 watt scooter. Looks like ECU have much better torque but is there a min power level I would need for steeper hills.

• 2) Main reason to switch would be portability going into and out of buildings or bus (if I decide to move farther away from work). What is is like in reality to take one onto and off a bus?

• 34) I normally commute using the roads. Videos I have seen of ECU usage is normally on a side walk / paved path. Is there some non-obvious reason for this? is lack of stopping distance on a road perhaps why compared to the stopping power / distance I am used to now (two disk brakes)?

Thanks so much!!!

[Tawpie]

Are your hills James street or the counterbalance? Depending on your weight, you’re def looking at a bigger more powerful wheel which means heavier. If you’re buffed out, one arming 50lbs up the bus stairs will be awkward but there’s only three (albeit tall) steps. You can always ask for the lift if you thrive on your fellow passengers giving you the stink eye  

I’m just learning, and wet or anything that reduces traction is for me, not advised—I don’t have the confidence. Plus the wheels in general are at best weather resistant, not water proof so there’s that.

I’d bet the reason many YouTube videos are shot on sidewalks and paths is because riding with automobiles (especially Seattle automobiles) while operating a camera on a stick requires a level of deftness few have attained. But Chooch and the other NYC riders have lots of footage proving it’s not only possible, but enviable.

The wheel is great fun, more so than a scooter. But a scooter is way way way easier to learn and just hop on. There’s a certain amount of gear you’ll want to consider wearing while perched on a self balancing machine that is probably more than what you must have on a scooter.

If you’re just after point A to point B, a scooter has a lot going for it. If you have the patience to learn a crazy new skill that will bleed your bank account and add off road options... you do have to deal with the permasmile that gets stuck to your face as well.

Either way, don’t be the guy on the scooter in the injury porn thread. 

[.....]

Tricky question. An euc is much easier in terms of portable. Even a decent 35lb euc will more than likely pull you up a hill for a mile. Of course, the grade and your weight apply.

I have both scooter and eucs. My dual motor scooter can pull hills just like an euc, but its also 70lbs and my <20lb mten pulls the same hills.  I ride my scooter and euc on streets as there is no sidewailk or parking lots here. I could carry an euc (aside from the sherman), easily onto a bus or trolley it into a store and go mostly unnoticed, It seems like a rolling suitcase. However, I'd trust the scooter more, if i was having to carry random objects in quantity in a bag or backpack, or if road conditions were much worse than a light mist. Euc leaves the hands free, but it doesnst really equate to being able to carry a ton of shit reliably for miles w/o a bag/pack.  My scooter and eucs are NOT waterproof, so thats a moot point.  People ride the euc in snow all the time, but... its still a single wheel and loss of that tiny sningle contact patch can mean bigger risks than a scooter.

You ask some REALLY hard questions to answer. I enjoy both, but the scooter is more like well.... a scooter. The euc is more like magic floating leg extensions. A scooter is WAY easier to learn than an euc. Some people pick up the euc very quickly, but I'm assuming its still more involved in the initial stages. I plan on falling most times when I ride an euc. I plan on NOT falling when I ride a scooter. I hardly fall on either, but its no secret that 1 wheel is less stable than 2.

I am going to take the chicken's way out and suggest you own both. Of course, that doesnt really help much, but it never stopped me before.

Welcome to the group! great questions and i do think its in the right place..

Edited October 18, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[BruceCLin]

Sorry to hear about your scooter being stolen. I also switched from a D3 to EUC for commute purpose.

1. You would want to be comfortable with it before taking it onto the road, especially hills. Not because hills are that much harder to ride once you have learnt how to ride a wheel, but as a new rider, if you have to jump off, the wheel can roll down hill and away from you. I wouldn't worry about wetness. EUC works better in wet than scooter IMO. Snow on hill is a different issue though.

2. Depends on your weight, the grade of the hill, and how long is the sustained climb. There are many models with no problem with hills.

3. I take it on the train everyday. It is much easier than a scooter, especially compare to the 70lb dualtron 3.

4. I wouldn't take youtube videos as representations of regular commuters. I personally ride mixed between bike path and road on my route. Sideway is not legal, and IMO not safe. How safe on road really depends on the traffic and drivers of your city. I am in Chicago, so not the best drivers lol.

Edited October 18, 2020 by BruceCLin

[Jon - Seattle]

Super helpful answers so far! Awesome community

Thinking more about it and the comment above: " plan on falling most times when I ride an euc. I plan on NOT falling when I ride a scooter" I commute with two company laptops everyday and breaking those would be a big PITA. Thinking I know how I am leaning... but still open to more insight from this great community.

[.....]

1 hour ago, Jon - Seattle said:

Super helpful answers so far! Awesome community

Thinking more about it and the comment above: " plan on falling most times when I ride an euc. I plan on NOT falling when I ride a scooter" I commute with two company laptops everyday and breaking those would be a big PITA. Thinking I know how I am leaning... but still open to more insight from this great community.

Don't let me scare you off of the euc. I rarely fall anymore and a LOT of people here that take less risks, probably fall near never. You are a little bit more at the mercy of the machine on an euc, but I wouldnt let that detail be what you focus on entirely. Sucks about the theft. Either way you go, I guess a chain is in order. I'm at 9+ mos and over 1,000mi. I wouldnt be too worried if i had a backpack on with laptops in it. Only once so far, has a spill wound me up on my back. Just because I 'expect' to fall off, doesnt mean it's going to happen. Again, don't let my simple opinion undermine what you may conclude on your own. My riding style is at speeds WELL above what I could hope to run out. However, when I am just putting around on my mten, a 'fall' is merely stepping off the damn thing and walking away before it asks me to dance. The fall is pretty much the euc not me. Horses for courses. If you plan on riding walking speed everywhere, you stay off the street and you worry much less about what may happen if you 'fall'.

Edited October 19, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[CptSalami]

I've been commuting 15km (9,3 miles) each way to work every day the weather permits for the last 4 years. The route has steep hills both up and down.

All the gear I need is transported in a backpack, that includes the company laptop and other needed documents. Never had a mishap or accident during this commute, so I would not be worried about transporting laptops and such. As others mention you should get comfortable with the wheel before hitting the streets like a racedriver. Once you master the wheel it will become second nature, and the risk of an accident is really no more on an EUC than on a bike. 

[BruceCLin]

Falling or not is really up to the kind of that particular ride. I've never fell during commute rides because it's just not that type of ride. On a commute ride, I follow the traffic, be predictable to others, and none of the trick moves that increase chance of danger. On the other the hand, when I am doing tricks or offroad trails, I expect I will get off the wheel at some point just like a skater trying a new trick. At this point I feel safer on a wheel than on a scooter.

[mike_bike_kite]

You should definitely give us your weight as that helps decide what wheels might be appropriate. As Shane says, something small like an Mten3 would easily get you up and down any hill and is easy to carry though you can't trolley it around like a suitcase. Mid range wheels like the V8f, KS16S or MCM5 V2 are a little heavier but still light enough to carry onto a bus, they're also fast enough to ride with slower traffic. You wouldn't want to lift a larger wheel onto a bus unless you're build like Arnold Shwarzenigger. Then again, if you had something like an MSX or an KS18XL, then you wouldn't need to use a bus as they have 50 mile ranges and can travel at 30mph.

You shouldn't underestimate how much time it takes to learn to ride an EUC and feel comfortable in traffic. Some people might be comfortable riding an EUC while carrying a laptop but I wouldn't be - I like my laptop almost as much as I like my EUC. Riding in rain can be a problem as you can't see whether you're about to ride through a puddle or a pot hole.

[AtlasP]

I have 5k miles on EUCs, regularly ride in the 26-32 mph range and almost entirely on road (not much for off-roading), and have never fallen (beyond the first two weeks when learning and sometimes having to bail but always landing on my feet--but nothing at all since). My g/f has at least 1k on EUCs, regularly rides 18-24 mph all on road, and also has never fallen (same deal). I also got at least 3 of my friends into riding albeit they're more casuals (using it more just like a bicycle as a way to get from A to B, normally shorter distances and lower speeds), and none of them have fallen.

The inevitability of going down is almost entirely dependent on buying the appropriate hardware for your context (your weight, probable riding style, use case/environment, etc) and in particular the decisions you make while riding. I ride a lot of the same routes and know exactly where I can go like a bat out of hell, but I'm also not too proud to slow way, way down and give wide births to others if anything is even slightly sketchy or a route is unknown (pedestrians not paying attention/pets/kids/car driver acting weird/poor visibility/weird road surfaces/weird road transitions/etc/etc). I know we live in an "everything is everybody else's fault" world these days, but I'm a firm believer that you get to decide whether you'll have falls or not by the set of choices you make.

I would vote EUC, albeit with certain bounds on "how steep is too steep" or "how wet is too wet", which are a bit hard to quantify. (Although the worst steepness is often mitigatable just by altering route slightly.)

Edited October 19, 2020 by AtlasP

[meepmeepmayer]

An MCM5 v2 seems like the perfect compromise between low enough weight/portability and great power/climbing/accelerating/stopping ability. For a city commute that isn't too long (like yours) where zippyness and reactiveness might count more than speed or comfort, it seems perfect.

Since there are a lot of EUC riders around you, consider meeting some and looking at the different wheels to get an idea what you want from your wheel.

On 10/18/2020 at 11:33 PM, Jon - Seattle said:

34) I normally commute using the roads. Videos I have seen of ECU usage is normally on a side walk / paved path. Is there some non-obvious reason for this? is lack of stopping distance on a road perhaps why compared to the stopping power / distance I am used to now (two disk brakes)?

If you don't know what to think of EUCs, think of them as a bicycle. All the same stuff applies. Use them where you'd bike, and don't use them where you wouldn't bike. You often would go on the bike path and not the road unless you go fast, they are for medium but not high (70kph) speeds, etc. They are not motorbikes.

That might explain your observations.

Stopping power depends on how badly you lean. EUCs brake as strong as you want them to (and friction allows).

Edited October 20, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[Jon - Seattle]

Thanks for all the responses.

My weight since someone ask is about 165. Buying a used inmotion v10f from someone local this coming weekend. Hope its a good choice to learn on.

[Tawpie]

Just a thought... you mentioned that your commute is all up or all down hill—be aware that when you start an all down segment, don’t be too near 100% charge. Most (all?) EUCs use regen braking and when the battery reaches 100% I understand they shut down. And throw you off. That’s second hand info but makes perfect sense to me—overcharge and you may have a lithium fire. And NOBODY has a class D fire extinguisher handy when you need one. 

[meepmeepmayer]

16 hours ago, Jon - Seattle said:

Buying a used inmotion v10f from someone local this coming weekend.

Not a bad choice! It's a bit on the heavier side, but sleek and strong and comfortable.

[mrelwood]

On 10/19/2020 at 11:56 PM, AtlasP said:

have never fallen (beyond the first two weeks when learning

...

the decisions you make while riding.

...

you get to decide whether you'll have falls or not by the set of choices you make.

I agree completely. During the 25000km I’ve ridden in soon 4 years, I have fallen on road just once. And that was definitely fully my own fault, as I wasn’t concentrating at all and I was literally jumping up and down on the wheel at speed.

 Just yesterday, despite the ground being all wet and full of slippery wet leaves, I went to a band practice with an EUC carrying a laptop and audio gear in a backpack as well as an electric bass in a bag on my back. I of course rode very differently than when I go off-roading with full gear on. Riding with at least a half a brain I don’t think people fall from their EUCs any more than they do from their bicycles.

 One local rider sets an unique example. He has fallen several times on road, and even been taken to hospital to be stitched twice because of it. But that’s all down to how he rides. He doesn’t think ahead and doesn’t seem to look around while riding. Keep your head turning, eyes jumping around, and thought in the next 10 seconds and you’ll be perfectly fine carrying laptops while riding. Once you learn properly first of course.

@Tawpie makes a very important point two posts above. You can’t ride downhill on a full battery. The wheel doesn’t turn off immediately, but a mile long hill would be sure to cause warnings and a gentle kick off, or even a panic power off at some point. If you live on top of a hill, charge the wheel to full only at work. But the wheel does need to be charged to full for the battery balancing algorithm to work. No balancing and the battery will be dead at 500-1500 miles.