Steve Jo Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Planemo said: Thanks great info, thanks! The comparison you are able to give, having ridden the Z10 is worth a lot So heres the kicker... would you say that 23psi on the Battlax feels much harder than the stock MSX? I know this is the million dollar question and hard to answer, but anything you can provide would really help! Haha U know that is definitely hard to answer ....it all depends on how I like and you like...but nothing compared to Z10 :)... Another thing is that I found pretty inconsistent between air pump ...so it's hard to have same exact psi tyre for each pump sometimes....my 23 psi from my air pump may be different to yours .. A lot of factors definitely 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 OK, bollox to it, I've just ordered a Pilot in 80/90 We'll see how it goes. If it's awful, I'll just send the bill to you Seriously, if it's nothing like the Z10 it's deffo worth a shot. At £31 inc delivery it's not the end of the world if I don't get on with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jo Posted December 22, 2020 Share Posted December 22, 2020 8 hours ago, Planemo said: OK, bollox to it, I've just ordered a Pilot in 80/90 We'll see how it goes. If it's awful, I'll just send the bill to you Seriously, if it's nothing like the Z10 it's deffo worth a shot. At £31 inc delivery it's not the end of the world if I don't get on with it. I got feeling U would like it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Well it will certainly look the business, how it will ride is another matter lol. I'll update when it's fitted *hastily secludes spoons from Mrs P's kitchen drawer* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Planemo Posted December 23, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 23, 2020 Blimey the pilot already arrived! Not sure how well it would go down to fit it on the kitchen table over xmas/boxing day though.. I weighed it at 2.37kg, I dont know what the stock H5102 is but I have a new H587 laying around and thats 1.41kg. So quite a bit of difference. Of course the Pilot has far more puncture resistance and also a fair bit more rubber in general so to be expected for a proper, well designed tubeless MC tyre Vs a much less engineered bicycle tyre. We'll see how it goes. The carcass isnt as stiff as I thought it would be, so thats a good start. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbhb Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Planemo said: I weighed it at 2.37kg, I dont know what the stock H5102 is but I have a new H587 laying around and that's 1.41kg. So quite a bit of difference. I immediately removed the 18x3 H5102 from my S18 to replace it with a CST C6004, which I have found to offer an absolutely Stellar experience in All departments! I just weighed the Brand New H5102 for you and it does come in at around the exact same weight as the H587 you referred to. From now on, I will never ever ride one of my wheels with a standard fitment bicycle tyre, instead much preferring to upgrade to a "proper" motor cycle tyre! The ride quality IMHO improves immensely, the durability/longevity goes up exponentially with much more puncture resistance and the grip that is offered just cannot be matched. Please let us know how the Pilot behaves, once you have had a chance to fit it and put some miles on, I'm sure you are gonna love it? Edited December 23, 2020 by fbhb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevolvingRider Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 11/25/2020 at 6:42 PM, null said: As I understand (and to keep it short), the profile tending towards a square, because when tilted it requires effort to lift up on its edge. (tilt a cube vs tilt a sphere). Reinforced sidewalls participate by not letting the side walls caving in. A car style tire should be extreme Yes, I agree 🤩 I love my Z10 mostly for the tire and it's performance 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 hour ago, fbhb said: I just weighed the Brand New H5102 for you and it does come in at around the exact same weight as the H587 you referred to. Ah great, thanks for that! At least we have a couple of weight comparisons now. It might help with info re loss of range/gyro feeling. 1 hour ago, fbhb said: the durability/longevity goes up exponentially with much more puncture resistance and the grip that is offered just cannot be matched. Cheap Chinese rubber has always been utter shite. I have been through enough car, MC and bicycle tyres to come to that conclusion. There is no question that decent rubber gives huge amounts of grip and I believe the Pilot is capable of that. My only concerns at this moment are 1. Range, 2. Gyro and 3. Comfort. Grip, quality, puncture resistance and wear will be excellent for this tyre by default for an MC application as I have yet to use a Michelin tyre that is crap. The only question is how well it will do for our EUCs which normally need a more flexible carcass to maintain comfort. 1 hour ago, fbhb said: Please let us know how the Pilot behaves, once you have had a chance to fit it and put some miles on Absolutely. If its garbage for our use case I will be sure to air my feelings. I wont spin crap about anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fbhb Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Planemo said: Absolutely. If its garbage for our use case I will be sure to air my feelings. I wont spin crap about anything I really look forward to hearing your comments on the Pilot, but I feel confident that you will be more than happy with it's performance. The concerns you have regarding the stiffer carcass, can be offset by running much lower pressure than you are used to, as the motorcycle tyres are very capable of running low pressure without risk of rim damage/pinch punctures or loss of performance! As you probably already know the Kenda 262 knobby on the Sherman, gets very high praise from most quarters and I run that tyre at just 20psi for the comfort aspect. As a consequence, once I had done All my S18 upgrades and replaced the H5102 with the CST C6004, I chose to run the CST at 20psi too with outstanding results (even though it's a suspension wheel, so Not so much for the comfort aspect!) I had a selection of 3 other tyres ready for the S18 (All 14" motorcycle tyres), including the Kenda K340A, which the CST closely resembles, but the CST has deeper tread at 6-7mm and more aggressive side blocks so it was an easy choice! For reference my Fully geared up riding weight is: approx. 85kgs. Edited December 23, 2020 by fbhb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Planemo Posted December 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 26, 2020 Well its on. Boxing day boredom gave me an opportunity so... I havent ridden it yet but just a couple of observations: My gut feeling is that this 80 width tyre is too wide for the skinny 30mm internal width MSX rim. I'm pretty sure thats a lot narrower than the small motorcycle rim its designed for. Now this might not be a problem, but it does mean the tyre is 'pulled in' more than it should be which makes for a very rounded profile. How this affects handling we shall see, but lets just say theres no way I will be getting anywhere near the edge of the tread lol. For the above reason, I am not sure that a 70 width would actually be much narrower once fitted. This one measures at just over 75mm, so only about 5mm wider than the stock H5102. The rim width is always going to limit just how wide any tyre will turn out. If someone has a 70 width Pilot fitted to an MSX/MSP it will be interesting to see ifs actually any narrower once fitted than this 80 width. I did get a few rubs on one side of the inner shell. I dremmeled away a shallow groove and its all but gone but I do want to spend some more time trying to centre the wheel a bit better and then try to centre the tyre. I pretty much just slapped it on and there is a bit of run-out which I am sure I can reduce. Other than that, it certainly looks awesome and I am sure grip wont be an issue. Will update again once I have put a few miles on it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) I just received my wheel, do you know what that is mean the 40P number?¿ Im asking because i receive the battlax SC 90/80-14 but with 49P instead of 40P! Are you sure that fits an MSX 84V? seems to wide for me! :-O Edited December 28, 2020 by XaBi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 mmmm just saw that i need to order 80/90 instead of 90/80! going to make a replacement.... :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted December 28, 2020 Share Posted December 28, 2020 'P' is the speed rating (93mph). 40 or 49 is the load index. Around 140kg for '40' and 185kg for '49'. Yes, I think a 90 width would be too wide, given my 80 rubbed slightly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted December 29, 2020 Share Posted December 29, 2020 13 hours ago, Planemo said: 'P' is the speed rating (93mph). 40 or 49 is the load index. Around 140kg for '40' and 185kg for '49'. Yes, I think a 90 width would be too wide, given my 80 rubbed slightly. thanks mate, just replaced the battlax by the michelin, which is stocked. :-) will receive it in a few days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Just a little update for my fitment - as mentioned above I had a small amount of rubbing on one side and so played a little with the case the other day. I slotted (trusty Dremmel again) the 6 mounting holes on the side that rubbed which allowed the case on that side to sit down a little and therefore allow the wheel to 'tilt' a little distance from the inner shell but after doing this the tyre then rubbed a little on the other side of the shell! This proves that there is very little room to play with using this tyre, and because of that I don't think I could recommend it and therefore suggest that using the 70/90 version instead might be a better bet. As a note, my shell isn't particularly mis-aligned either - far less than some other MSX's I have seen. I continued trying to get it better, making small adjustments to the 6x shell screws and also sanded off the pointed ridge on each side of the tyre. It now spins totally freely when upright with no weight on the wheel, but I need to ride it before I make any further decisions. It all rests on how comfortable the ride is - if it isn't then the tyre will probably come off and I will go back to the H5102 (which I really like) but if it rides nice, I will make further tests to stress the shell (one legged riding etc) and see how much (if at all) it rubs and go from there. TBH theres not much more clearance I can get, although I still haven't dremmeled the inside of the other shell yet so that's an option. It gives an extra mm or so. All in all, the exercise has certainly shown me just how little room there is to play with. You can do little things here and there to gain some clearance, but theres no magic way of gaining big space. Of course, my experience only relates to the 80/90 Pilot, other tyres of even the same stamped sizes will very likely come up slightly different on width which could be a good or bad thing depending... Edit: just to add, you may be very lucky and not have an issue at all if your shells happen to be perfectly aligned/spaced relative to the motor. Edited January 3, 2021 by Planemo 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Jo Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Planemo said: Just a little update for my fitment - as mentioned above I had a small amount of rubbing on one side and so played a little with the case the other day. I slotted (trusty Dremmel again) the 6 mounting holes on the side that rubbed which allowed the case on that side to sit down a little and therefore allow the wheel to 'tilt' a little distance from the inner shell but after doing this the tyre then rubbed a little on the other side of the shell! This proves that there is very little room to play with using this tyre, and because of that I don't think I could recommend it and therefore suggest that using the 70/90 version instead might be a better bet. As a note, my shell isn't particularly mis-aligned either - far less than some other MSX's I have seen. I continued trying to get it better, making small adjustments to the 6x shell screws and also sanded off the pointed ridge on each side of the tyre. It now spins totally freely when upright with no weight on the wheel, but I need to ride it before I make any further decisions. It all rests on how comfortable the ride is - if it isn't then the tyre will probably come off and I will go back to the H5102 (which I really like) but if it rides nice, I will make further tests to stress the shell (one legged riding etc) and see how much (if at all) it rubs and go from there. TBH theres not much more clearance I can get, although I still haven't dremmeled the inside of the other shell yet so that's an option. It gives an extra mm or so. All in all, the exercise has certainly shown me just how little room there is to play with. You can do little things here and there to gain some clearance, but theres no magic way of gaining big space. Of course, my experience only relates to the 80/90 Pilot, other tyres of even the same stamped sizes will very likely come up slightly different on width which could be a good or bad thing depending... Edit: just to add, you may be very lucky and not have an issue at all if your shells happen to be perfectly aligned/spaced relative to the motor. I don't have issue with mine though (not using Micheline Pilot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Yeah maybe the Battlax 80/90 comes up just that little bit narrower than the Pilot. Maybe your shells are a little better aligned than mine. If you get a minute, if you can accurately measure the width across your tyre (I used a vernier caliper) it will at least rule out any width differences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 On 1/3/2021 at 11:05 AM, Planemo said: Yeah maybe the Battlax 80/90 comes up just that little bit narrower than the Pilot. Maybe your shells are a little better aligned than mine. If you get a minute, if you can accurately measure the width across your tyre (I used a vernier caliper) it will at least rule out any width differences. mmmmm, now im thinking on buying the 70/90, just to be on the safe side, found one battlax 70/90 close to my house for 20Eur. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 35 minutes ago, XaBi said: mmmmm, now im thinking on buying the 70/90, just to be on the safe side, found one battlax 70/90 close to my house for 20Eur. :-) The 70/90 would indeed be a safer bet, whatever the manufacturer. Remember that Stevo Jo had an 80/90 Battlax fit with no problems though. It's only my Pilot 80/90 that has rubbed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumbla.jr Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 IRC NR77 fitment is spot on 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 2:36 AM, tumbla.jr said: IRC NR77 fitment is spot on which size did you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tumbla.jr Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, XaBi said: which size did you use? 80\90-14 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post XaBi Posted January 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 12, 2021 (edited) Finally i installed the bridgestone at 70/90-14", it fits perfect!! what an improvement! I tried the michelin at 80/90 -14 but its too wide. That a lot better tyre than the stock one! :-) Edited January 12, 2021 by XaBi wrong images 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted January 12, 2021 Share Posted January 12, 2021 @XaBi are you running that tire tubless? If so, can you share the steps needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XaBi Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 @UniMe no i didnt convert it to tubeless :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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