Should I upgrade

[Kryziss]

I am an 80kg rider and I started this year on an inmotion V8 after doing research on every kind of PEV. I chose the electric unicycle because for a cheaper price than a onewheel I could get a relatively comfortable vehicle with specs that went above and beyond what I NEEDED it for. It wasn't really a necessity for me but I was completely hooked when I first saw an EUC and I wanted to be part of the movement. I use it mostly to go to work and for fun rides in the city, always under 8 km at a time for now. I have about 200km on the counter since the beginning of spring. 

My girlfriend is becoming really interested in the hobby and I would like to buy a second wheel so we can ride together. There are many factors that come to my mind when trying to choose the best option.

-I am starting to feel confident when practicing in parking lots, but I never seem to feel completely stable when in the street with cars (one promo video for the v8 shows a guy riding in a mountain trail on one foot, so I believe stability must be highly skill-dependent). I'm sure an EUC does better than an eskate, but I still have to watch out for every crack on the road and I wonder how much of a difference a bigger EUC would do. I also read that a lighter EUC accelerates and breaks faster, which may be something to keep in mind in a city where I sometimes have to stop every few dozen meters.

-My country doesn't have laws that apply specifically to EUC's for now. I have crossed paths with many police cars while riding and none of them had any reaction whatsoever but I know people who got 200$ fines for riding on the street. It is kind of a grey area for now. I wonder what reasons there could be to buy a more expensive EUC when you live in a country like France where the speed is limited at 25 km/h.

-I chose this vehicle mainly because of the low maintenance and because I can take it out quickly, having to put on only my helmet and wrist guards. I don't fear to fall so much at this speed (I have bailed twice and have been able to run it off or fall without hurting myself too much). Having to take the time to put on more gear feels like it defeats the purpose. I understand that I may become comfortable at higher speeds and become hungry for more, but I can't even think of a situation where I would get the chance to enjoy more power.

-The obvious conclusion would be to buy another V8 but I couldn't help but notice that on this forum, there is much talk about how quickly a new rider outgrows the V8. Some people say that it feels like a toy after trying more expensive EUC's. Onewheel owners seem to be satisfied with using their "slow" device for their commute but EUC riders don't seem to see it that way. I do not think it was an error to buy the V8 first as I intend to use it to teach people how to ride without worrying too much about damaging the wheel. But I'm not sure what I should do next. 

-No matter what I choose, I would like to buy again from my local shop in order to support them and to get after sales service. This means I would have to choose between a V8F, V10, 16S, Nikola or 18L. With my budget, it is an enormous stretch to even consider buying most of these wheels but I want to make sure that I am happy with my choice for years to come. Obviously, another option would be to just wait and see what I think when I have more experience. 

Thanks in advance for taking the time to help.

[mrelwood]

Welcome, @Kryziss!

I think the main reason for growing out of anything might be knowing that there are better ones out there. Just a few years ago I was happily cruising around with the Lhotz for six months, and I didn’t even realize that there are better EUCs available. Once I did, I was constantly reminded of the Lhotz’s limits, and I could only think how much better it could be. Had I not known, I’d still be riding my daily 8.5 mile trips topping at 15 mph.

Powerful wheels enable us to do things and go to places where the weak ones simply can’t. Riding at 30 mph is very different from riding at 15 mph. There’s a lovely amount of variety to he hobby, but it also accounts for different and opposing opinions. My EUC hobby is a different hobby than yours’ is with your V8.

That also makes purchase decisions a bit difficult, since it is hard to foretell what kind of rider you’d become with a powerful long range wheel for example. Every time I’ve gotten a new wheel I have sworn that I will only ever go slightly faster than on the previous one. And look at me now, riding quite aggressively and reaching 30 mph every time I ride.

All the wheels you mention are great wheels, and every one of them could bring a huge amount of joy and become inseparable with your everyday life, for years. For me personally though, I would only have to choose which kidney to sell in order to pump up my budget for the 18XL. I wouldn’t spend a split second considering a 16” wheel for myself.

For the riding you do now, obviously any of the mentioned models would do great. But if you got yourself a long-range wheel, would you become a long range rider? What about off-road? Or higher top speed? I think that’s what you might want to try and decide.

[Tazarinho]

3 hours ago, Kryziss said:

-I am starting to feel confident when practicing in parking lots, but I never seem to feel completely stable when in the street with cars (one promo video for the v8 shows a guy riding in a mountain trail on one foot, so I believe stability must be highly skill-dependent). I'm sure an EUC does better than an eskate, but I still have to watch out for every crack on the road and I wonder how much of a difference a bigger EUC would do. I also read that a lighter EUC accelerates and breaks faster, which may be something to keep in mind in a city where I sometimes have to stop every few dozen meters.

I'm a bit heavier than you and upgraded from a V8 to a KS 16X a couple of months ago. While I did achieve a fairly decent stability on the V8 (I have almost 5000 km on it) and one-legged riding, mountain trails or carrying awkward stuff on it aren't a problem, I still had to watch out for every crack in the road. Simply because at my weight and at 25 km/h I could easily overpower it, and was too close to the limit all the time.

The KS 16X with it's 3 inch wide tire is a different story. I can ride over virtually every surface and almost dream off while doing it, because it can just handle it. It feels a lot more stable than the V8. The wide tire and the pedal angle will do that. However, as you also correctly pointed out, a heavier and stabler wheel is less 'zippy'. You won't accelerate and brake as fast as on the V8. However, again because of the wide tire my 16X is very easy to ride at walking speed. So basically I adapted quickly and am happy with it in an urban environment as well.

While I was happy with the speed at the time, I wasn't with the range. I wanted to go on longer and longer trips all the time, this was the main reason for me to upgrade.

Now I find that I have somehow shifted from a 25 km/h rider to a 35 km/h rider, without noticing much difference. I can go on longer trips, but still want more, so I got a fast charger so I can charge on the go (only to be in lockdown a day later  ) And my girlfriend is slowly starting to feel comfortable on the V8, so we do some short rides together.

So I do see some similarities between our cases.

However, if I hadn't needed more range (in winter I sometimes wasn't able to finish my daily sub 20 km commute) I would have been perfectly happy with my V8, not knowing how it felt to ride another wheel.

All in all, if you have a limited budget and your main goal is to ride with your girlfriend, just get another V8. You only have 200 km on yours, so you'll definitely still get better and stabler on it. If you ever want to upgrade you can probably easily sell it and still get that new wheel.

However... if you already start to have that little extra need for range, speed, comfort. If watching all the different wheels out there makes your blood pump faster. If you get a tingle of excitement on the latest youtube video of Kuji, Chooch or Marty on a new wheel, then you probably should get a higher end wheel already.

 

[UniVehje]

Keep the V8 for your girlfriend and for you to do city riding and buy another bigger wheel for your joy riding and for when you ride together. A bigger wheel will feel more sluggish at first but you won't miss it when you get going fast on trails and the battery lasts for much longer. All the 2000W+ class wheels are great, the differences we argue about are only the last 5 %. You will enjoy any of them. Just go for the biggest battery you can afford. If you like to refine your decision further, you should know how you will use it: terrain, range, public transportation, commuting, speed etc. 

Edited April 6, 2020 by UniVehje

[Kryziss]

On 4/6/2020 at 3:44 AM, Tazarinho said:

 However... if you already start to have that little extra need for range, speed, comfort. If watching all the different wheels out there makes your blood pump faster. If you get a tingle of excitement on the latest youtube video of Kuji, Chooch or Marty on a new wheel, then you probably should get a higher end wheel already.

 

Thanks to everyone so much for such elaborate answers. For now I will keep practicing as often as I can (ideal time for this right now) because I do recognize myself in these lines. I have never been a car/motorcycle/extreme sports enthusiast so this kind of more expensive interest is a new thing for me. I won't put more money on entry level wheels in case I do end up wanting to take the next step. I am almost afraid of trying bigger wheels since it seems like I will never go back! I already know that there's no feeling like riding and, even though I was hesitant to go on the street 2 weeks ago, now I find every excuse I can to do it.

[LeGiroquoi]

I had the exact same situation that you, and maybe lot of us.

In fact I started all this wheel addiction while searching for an hoverboard (!) And I accidentally found a swagroller (two wheel unicycle) at first me and the kids found it practically impossible to ride. That was just impossible.

But obviously then I got the trick and learned there was uni(one)cycles too!  So I bought an ninebot S1, which served well, was really really beaten out of our attempts to ride!

But hey, then I bought a v5, then a V8, then v10, then z10, Nikola, 18S, 18xl, etc etc until this week I bought an Msx. (And I was the kind of guy thinking j would never go with those devil wheels, as I'm not a speed demon myself) but wow the msx is quite amazing ! Almost prefer it to my 18xl ! Sooo stable. And you find it's too easy to go really fast without even being aware of the speed..

So for this summer I'm in a big dilemma. I was going to buy a 16x, but now I'm maybe looking for a MSP.. or maybe I could save up for either the s18 or the v11 (or both???

 

Anyhow, as the other said, just go with the biggest you can afford, you won't regret it

[Kryziss]

Here is a quick update of my evolution and my reflexion on the subject.

The more I ride, the more I LOVE my V8 because I am getting more and more comfortable on it. It has been two weeks since my last post and now I am used to riding anywhere in the city every day. I understand why it is so often said to be a great second wheel. There is no way around it : I can go for about 20km (100% to 30% battery to keep it safe) with my weight and very relaxed riding style. 

With my budget, I can hardly justify buying a wheel that surpasses my needs so much but the itch is definitely there, so if I did I would need to be able to be happy with my choice for at least a few years. I have tried to broaden my horizons and look at the wheels with the biggest batteries but I have a hard time getting over some flaws on every one of them. If there was a V10F with the range of the 18XL, (I know it would unevitably be heavier), I feel like my choice would be easier. No other high end wheel seems to have an official water resistance rating, which makes it scary to spend 3000 canadian dollars (I know an IP55 rating must be taken with a grain of salt but it's better than nothing). It seems easier to disassemble than a GW wheel. It has a trolley handle separate from the lifting handle (easier to fix). The light is manual so it doesn't turn on when you don't want it to. The sounds can all be turned off. Ergonomics are important to me and I wouldn't like all these details nagging me while I use my wheel for the years to come.

So I wonder... maybe 60km of real range would be enough, I could enjoy great ergonomics + a cheaper price but this model is getting old. Or maybe I should disregard all this and go for something like a 16X or an 18XL. Of course, I would never buy a wheel without trying it first because the #1 criteria is still how it rides. Maybe I could buy a used wheel. This feels like a roll of the dice but these machines are made tough. Or maybe I should wait. Manufacturers take into account more and more of what their client base is saying. Inmotion announced something like 5 new wheels this year in the interview with EUCO. I don't know about the other companies. I will get to try some wheels at my nearby shop when the lockdown is over and I might be unable to resist.

My criteria in terms of performance are getting clearer too. I still don't know about speed but 95% of my riding time is on roads. My dream would be to be able to ride between cities.

On another note : how am I going to survive next winter without riding my EUC? 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Remember the battery will degrade by (say 10%) each year, and you'll probably find reason to ride more, and faster (=less range), which will make you want a larger, faster, longer-range wheel. You therefore probably want to over-buy (to buy more than you need).

Balance that out with a...let's say...3-year lifespan (at some point you'll need to replace batteries--however, technology will have advanced and newer batteries in a newer wheel will be less expensive), so you don't want to over-buy excessively.

What seems reasonable for Wheel #2? What you need today +50% more so you're set for tomorrow? In a few years your girlfriend might be ready for Wheel #2, and you'll be ready for Wheel #3? Or she'll give up on wheels and you'll lose interest because of it?

It's a hard call...

[mrelwood]

 

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

With my budget, I can hardly justify buying a wheel that surpasses my needs so much

If the way it rides is #1 for you, an unnecessarily high top speed shouldn’t be an issue. Just set the top speed where you want and enjoy a more stable ride at your speeds. I’m sure if you ever owned a car that it was able to go and accelerate much faster than you needed it to.

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

If there was a V10F with the range of the 18XL

The 1500Wh V11 might be closer to that than what was initially expected!

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

It seems easier to disassemble than a GW wheel.

Not sure about the other GWs but the MSX may be the easiest wheel to disassemble and to work on.

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

The sounds can all be turned off.

In my understanding the only way to get rid of the fire truck loud top speed alarm on the V10 is to create an empty sound file and replace the original with it. Unplugging the beeper on the MSX would be much faster. Although at your speeds it would never alert you while riding anyway...

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

maybe I should disregard all this and go for something like a 16X or an 18XL.

While the 18XL is an aging model, it’s still the king of an universally great wheel for all use cases.

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

Maybe I could buy a used wheel. This feels like a roll of the dice but these machines are made tough.

The batteries can be pretty easily ruined as fast as in 6 months though.

45 minutes ago, Kryziss said:

On another note : how am I going to survive next winter without riding my EUC? 

After 3 winters since I started riding, my advice is: Don’t. Don’t stop riding for the winter! Get yourself a wheel that can fit a tire that can handle snow and ice, and keep on riding! I did that this winter, and I’m kicking myself for not having done it earlier. The MSX with a studded C-186 tire was just perfect for everything Mother Nature had to offer for us this winter.

[meepmeepmayer]

In my opinion, the V8 isn't a "real" wheel. It's just good enough for you to never realize that because you can live with one and never have any doubts or second thoughts that there might be more to EUCs. But modern performance wheels are on a completely different level. Even my 3 year old ACM is. It's neat machine (V8) vs. serious oomph (the big boys).

So I say: get the best wheel you can afford. Don't artificially limit yourself (or be limited by a local shop). Don't buy a "this will surely be good enough" wheel. Get the best, strongest one you can. And then you can get a 2nd wheel like this for your girlfriend soon after

Edited April 22, 2020 by meepmeepmayer

[Kryziss]

How much importance do you give to these two points?

Water resistance (If I'm gonna go far, I don't want to be afrait of light to moderate rain)

            Sub point snow resistance (I'm thinking the salt they put on the road can't be good)

The ability to test the wheel before buying it. I would love to buy from Smartwheel Canada or from Ewheels but it seems insane to do this without trying it before, but there are really few wheelers where I live and absolutely none in my city.

 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Kryziss

[WI_Hedgehog]

I agree, support local shops if you want them to stay in business....

From what I've read, any wheel can be opened up and water resistance enhanced. It seems they all have some sort of issues (like power buttons), although King Song seems to have the best setup with a solid double-shell, low fenders (not much exposed wheel), and water-deflecting pedals. Gotway seems to like making a mess.

Maybe the other thing is how sticky a summer tire is available for in wet conditions? For slippery fall riding with leaves? Cold conditions when the rubber hardens?

Add +50% battery life requirement for winter? As my batteries age they're best kept warm in the house/truck until riding in the cold.

Something else to consider: Pre-made booster packs! Carry extra weight only when you need it!

[Chriull]

On 4/6/2020 at 7:12 AM, Kryziss said:

This means I would have to choose between a V8F, V10, 16S, Nikola or 18L

16s won't be a real upgrade.

You always have choosen the low battery version.

If you really spend fresh money you should go for a KS18Xl or a high capacity nikola option. Depending if you prepare Kingsong or "high speed" option.

High capacity battery is wrongly only seen as range increase - it is active safety!

As high speed euc's are increasing safety if one manages to drive "relatively slow" with them.

[Kryziss]

I'm sorry for this list. I wasn't considering every wheel yet when I wrote this but they also have 18XL, 16X, MSX... I now understand that the bigger version is worth the money on the long term. The MSX 1600wh is 200$ cheaper than the 16X (which I feel like I might enjoy more than the 18XL for city riding / snow) but I feel like I would hate the trolley and fear water damage. These are all speculations, though.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Kryziss

[Kryziss]

Another local shop has spotted me on the forums and offered me a 16x for $1980 instead of $2700 canadian dollars in exchange for my v8. What do you guys think?

[LeGiroquoi]

Go for it

Edited April 23, 2020 by Eric plam

[Kryziss]

It is called KiteXpress in Trois-Rivières. My wheel is in excellent condition so it helped.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Kryziss

[Kryziss]

Update :

I did not end up selling my V8 because my girlfriend (who has a tighter budget) wants to buy it from me, so all options are open again.

I went to the shop today and tried 3 wheels : 16X, 18L and V10F.

First thing I am happy to report is that heavy wheels aren't nearly as heavy as I expected. They are a joy to ride and the upgrade is definitely a good idea, with no downside in my mind. They are still light and compact enough for anything I would need them for.

After trying both KS wheels, the V10F was unfortunately an absolute no-go because it felt so sluggish and unnatural to steer compared to the other two.

The 18L (2300 cad$) is the one that felt the most natural to me. Carving was easy, stability was incredible on any surface and torque was absolutely sufficient. The only thing I found more difficult was tight turns. 

The 16X (2500$) would need some getting used to. Feels very boxy and slightly less stable (albeit twice as stable as my V8). Extremely agile at slow speeds. I found that it takes just as much intent to stop your turn than to initiate the turn itself. Turning and carving became much more difficult as soon as I went a bit faster. I have to say I can see its potential nonetheless.

I know I might sound deluded, but I want the wheel that is likely to last me the longest. If I went according to my initial preference, it would be the 18L (18XL being 400$ more than the 18L I would rather take the 16X and force myself to master it). I will probably never need the 16X additional range but it seems stupid not to take an extra 554wh for only 200$ more. I am also a bit worried about hating the non-magnetic pedals and the trolley handle being V2 instead of V3 on the 18L. I believe that with some practice I would learn to achieve the maneuvers I find difficult with both models. I have read countless times that 3" tyres are the way of the future. Now that the 16X is a mature product, the choice should be obvious, right?

[mrelwood]

On 5/10/2020 at 1:40 AM, Kryziss said:

Now that the 16X is a mature product, the choice should be obvious, right?

I don’t think that it’s that simple. While I absolutely love the 3” tire on my MSX, I love it being an 18” even more. So for my own use I would prefer the 18(X)L.

 Yes, I’m aware that the 16x3” is close to actual 18” in outer diameter, but the 18x2.5” is still at least an inch larger.

[Kryziss]

Here's to never walking again! Thanks to everyone who answered my questions.

What allowed me to make up my mind is that a group ride was organised in June and my amazing local shop let me use their demo V10F, 16X and 18XL for the whole day! After about 6 hours of riding (which I know isn't much in the grand scheme of things) I just felt so at home on the 16X!

I placed my order and the waiting game started. I already watched a lot of EUC content before this day but now I think I could recognize any EUC youtuber by the length of their selfie stick.

@UniVehje's prediction came true... For now. I am keeping the V8 because this is the cheapest way my girlfriend and I can share the fun. We'll see what happens next

It is almost midnight and I have been up since 4 in the morning but I was eager to tell you how happy I am about my first big wheel!

Edited July 8, 2020 by Kryziss

[.....]

And the euc disease claims another victim. You can only use 'your girlfriend' as an excuse once or twice. Now the hardest part..... finding passable excuses for when you buy the next 7 wheels. Dont forget to take a look at the RollNZ offerings to cover it, if you so desire. I see an MTEN in your near future...  Eucw FTW!  Enjoy and keep us posted!

Edited July 8, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

 

2 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

You can only use 'your girlfriend' as an excuse once or twice.

I think it can be used loads more than that. For example: “If I weren’t such a lonely and secluded single guy, my girlfriend would want me to enjoy the hobby at least to the full extent of my own bank account.”

See? Works just fine!

[Kryziss]

Update!

You know how most guys on this forum say they need to convince/leave/hypnotise their wife/gf in order to buy new wheels? Mine isn't like that. Less than 4 days after I got my 16X, she acquired a taste for range and power. A fellow rider who I trust sold us his two month old V10F with upgraded pedals and lots of spare parts. After taking some time to get to know it, even I absolutely love how comfy and nimble it is. At her weight, she will probably get the same range I get on my 16X.

I knew everything they said here was true. I did not know HOW true it was. It's an insidious addiction. We bought the V10F and sold the V8 on the same trip today and we won't look back.

Maybe we just reached the minimum requirements to make our own canadian isthereanyfood show 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Kryziss