Warning to ALL Electric Unicycle users

[Kevin Zheng]

It is 2 months when I have an accident with a well known electric unicycle.

On that accident, I have 2 bone fracture, and can not eat by myself for a loooong time because, at that  accident, my left clavicle fracture and right radius fracture. 

You can image that, I can not use both of my hands, even eating or toilet.

The accident is cause by a product failed, because the electric unicycle lost the power (just like the power disappear at that second) when it running, I guess the speed is over 10km/h on the accident. And I have been fall down from the electric unicycle.

After several X-ray checking, doctor confirm there are 2 bone fracture.

I have use the electric unicycle goto work at the morning, and go home on the afternoon, it is usually can take me 2 times of run(two times to work, and two times go home), and I will recharge it on the second time when I go to my home, so I expect each round it may take 20% ~ 25% of its power.

The accident is on the second time when I use it go to my home, and happen when I just leave my office several mins later. So I guess the unicycle remain 20% ~ 30% power.

The only thing I can image is, the product has not well test on it lower power, or a software bug, or even a motor problem.

 

Whatever what cause the problem, as a consumer, I can not image the unicycle will be danger like this. 

 

So I have contact the manufacture on the next day of accident, and hope they can find out the issue, fix it, and prevent another person will be injure again.

 

But unfortunately the manufacturer just want to shifting out the responsibility for their company.

 

I have filed a report to CPSC, and hope they will follow up this case, and just want to remind you, be careful in using your electric unicycle, when the product failed, it may be a serious damage to your body, keep yourself safety.

 

Sorry for my "bad" English...

[Guest]

Hi Kevin, I feel very sorry for what happened to you and I hope that you recover quickly and fully. The problem of these sudden shut-downs has been discussed i. e. here. The irresponsibility of the manufacturers is unbearable. But as we are talking about chinese manufacturers I see no solution for the near future. Were all the electric unicycles produced in France, Germany or the United States I am sure, that you wouldn't have had the accident. The possibility of a sudden shut-down is the only scenario that frightens me while using my electric unicycle. But who on earth has the power to force the chinese manufacturers to take responsibility and modify the construction of electric unicycles in a way that makes a sudden shut-off impossible? I am afraid, no one. 

All the best 

[Rafał]

We all know that unicycle is not stable by itself. There are some cases when the manufacturer cannot do much like electronic malfunction - some parts burnout. All we can do is the pressure to make firmware work in a responsible manner  whenever it is possible and wear protective equipment.

All the best for you Kevin.

Kevin can you post on which brand unicycle were you riding?

[Mono]

It is 2 months when I have an accident with a well known electric unicycle.

Which one? 

 

[Mono]

But who on earth has the power to force the chinese manufacturers to take responsibility and modify the construction of electric unicycles in a way that makes a sudden shut-off impossible?

For one the legislator(s), as well as, indirectly, the consumers. 

If only type-approved devices would be legal to operate (they should never shut down while rolling, always slow down without load,...), and the law would be enforced, the problem were solved.

EDIT: a necessary type-approval would usually apply only to new devices, not to those already in operation.

EDIT: I should have said: only type-approved devices would be legal to sell for and operate in public streets, unless sold before a certain date). 

[OliverH]

Current EU are not safety reliable. That's why we hit the wall in Switzerland with regulations: You can't start homologation over here (and we've all in place) because safety reliability is missing.

[dpong]

For one the legislator(s), as well as, indirectly, the consumers. 

If only type-approved devices would be legal to operate (they should never shut down while rolling, always slow down without load,...), and the law would be enforced, the problem were solved.

Yes, let's outlaw all existing EUCs.  Start a petition.  

[Mono]

Yes, let's outlaw all existing EUCs.  Start a petition.  

This attitude is indeed a problem: if you don't want dangerous EUCs to be outlawed, then you are obviously not serious in complaining about dangerous EUCs to be sold or used. You can't have it both ways.

[dpong]

I do not think that a new law is always the best answer for every situation.  Also, I would prefer that my hobby not be outlawed.  I prefer not to be ticketed, fined, or jailed.   As they say, when EUCs are outlawed, only outlaws will have EUCs.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I'm under the impression that you said all dangerous EUCs should be outlawed.   But that doesn't leave any EUCs left.  You will have outlawed the sport entirely!

I only try to stretch your/our imaginations.  I never understand when people wish to outlaw their own activities.  Technical experts on this very site have discussed the limitations of making these EUCs safe.  If a company could crack that problem, they will take away market share and make a ton of money.  Why wouldn't we think they are already working on that?  

[Kevin]

I do not think that a new law is always the best answer for every situation.  Also, I would prefer that my hobby not be outlawed.  I prefer not to be ticketed, fined, or jailed.   As they say, when EUCs are outlawed, only outlaws will have EUCs.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I'm under the impression that you said all dangerous EUCs should be outlawed.   But that doesn't leave any EUCs left.  You will have outlawed the sport entirely!

I only try to stretch your/our imaginations.  I never understand when people wish to outlaw their own activities.  Technical experts on this very site have discussed the limitations of making these EUCs safe.  If a company could crack that problem, they will take away market share and make a ton of money.  Why wouldn't we think they are already working on that?  

While I agree in principle, I think in practice people just aren't willing to pay for the safety. For example, Solowheel seems to have taken a very conservative approach to safety, but at the cost of a $2000 wheel that very few people are willing to buy.

[dpong]

But the regulations we are discussing might make *all* EUCs $2000 plus.   Passing a law does not change the economics of the situation, but it might price me out of a EUC I can afford.  If people aren't willing to pay for the safety, then the standard answer is to force them by ... well, force.   I am happy with my EUC and I am an adult, and I don't need to be treated as if I were an infant.   

[Kevin]

I only meant to respond to "Why wouldn't we think they are already working on that?"

[Mono]

I do not think that a new law is always the best answer for every situation.  Also, I would prefer that my hobby not be outlawed.  I prefer not to be ticketed, fined, or jailed.  

Sure, nobody does. Does that mean we should let you murder someone without putting you in jail, because you prefer so? 

As they say, when EUCs are outlawed, only outlaws will have EUCs.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I'm under the impression that you said all dangerous EUCs should be outlawed.   But that doesn't leave any EUCs left.  You will have outlawed the sport entirely!

I would say you interpreted my post in a different way I would interpret it. There are certainly many possible interpretations, from which you took a rather extreme one. 

Here is my interpretation, and how type-approval usually works: a group of experts figures out what is desired and what is realistically feasible. The group will also figure out a schedule as to when the regulation will come into effect, such that producers have enough time to implement the changes in their production lines. Products sold before the regulation comes into effect are not concerned. 

I only try to stretch your/our imaginations.  I never understand when people wish to outlaw their own activities.  

I didn't want to suggest to outlaw an activity. What I wanted to suggest is to outlaw selling dangerous devices for public street use. 

[dpong]

I have not murdered anyone, so far as I know.  I don't think my riding a less-than-100%-safe EUC is in any way comparable.  Cigarette usage in the USA has dropped tremendously, and yet cigarettes were never outlawed.   How is that possible?   If I made you think, which I'm not sure, then my job here is done.   

[Mono]

I have not murdered anyone, so far as I know.

Nobody said so. 

I don't think my riding a less-than-100%-safe EUC is in any way comparable.  

No, but selling unpredictably dangerous e-wheels to customers, to who it is difficult to understand the risks and whether they are necessary or born out of laziness of the producer, is in some way pretty well comparable to killing people.

Cigarette usage in the USA has dropped tremendously, and yet cigarettes were never outlawed.   How is that possible?

By education and campaigning and outlawing their use in certain public spaces. I never suggested, and am not likely to ever suggest, to outlaw cigarettes, or any other drug for that matter. However to outlaw the use of cigarettes in certain public spaces seems to have been a rather good move.

Cars have become tremendously more safe and environmental compatible in the last 40 years. How do you think did that happen?

[Tilmann]

I do not think that a new law is always the best answer for every situation.  Also, I would prefer that my hobby not be outlawed.  I prefer not to be ticketed, fined, or jailed.   As they say, when EUCs are outlawed, only outlaws will have EUCs.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I'm under the impression that you said all dangerous EUCs should be outlawed.   But that doesn't leave any EUCs left.  You will have outlawed the sport entirely!

I only try to stretch your/our imaginations.  I never understand when people wish to outlaw their own activities.  Technical experts on this very site have discussed the limitations of making these EUCs safe.  If a company could crack that problem, they will take away market share and make a ton of money.  Why wouldn't we think they are already working on that?  

I very much agree with @dpong. This may sound strange coming from a German, but I would hate even more "verboten" (forbidden) signs spoiling or even ending my EUC fun. On the contrary, being amongst the earliest adopters with an entire new art of transport has me excited and is part of the fun. Problem is: to me, it's important enough to spend countless hours on this forum alone (and then some on fb and youtube) to learn all there is to learn about EUCs and be fully aware of the risks in this early stage of development.

We must not assume, any average consumer spends similar effort to collect this kind of information, which is otherwise "spoon fed" to the buyer of almost any other vehicle (mostly in an "Operators Manual". My GotWays both came with a single page of printed text - in Chinese). While it may take several product generations for EUCs to reach the safety and reliability standards of "mature" transportation products, this information gap should be easier and quicker to close.

In other words: 

• Dear authorities: don't protect me from risks to myself, which I choose to accept (like I would with pretty much every other sports activity).
• Dear EUC manufacturers and distributors: Please make it unmistakably clear to any potential customer, that the use of EUCs carries inherent risks at this stage:
  • Be prepared for your EUC to shut down at any time. We cannot guarantee that it doesn't. Sudden and unexpected shutdown results in a high risk of fall and injury, especially at a speed above 10 km/h.
  • No EUC at this time has redundent braking like it is standard with most vehicles (cars, motorbikes, even bicycles). Available motor power is all there is to slow you down. It can fail, and it certainly will fail when overstressed.
  • No EUC has built in protection from "run away" accidents. With involuntary dismount, there is a risk the EUC will continue running away for a considerable distance and cause accidents. At present, using a training belt, rope or leash is the only known method to prevent that.
  • High capacity Lithium based batteries as used in EUCs may cause a fire hazard when mechanically damaged or overcharged. Such battery fires are very difficult to extinguish.
  • Using an EUC on public ground may violate local traffic regulation laws. Its use may even be considered a criminal offense. As a consequence, ordinary private liability insurance may not cover damages caused by using an EUC.

This is just my "5 cents worth" - I would appreciate our community to refine and complete the list.

My intention: once we settle on a basic risk information text, which every EUC buyer should be aware of to make an educated decision, we should encourage the many manufacturers and distributors we deal with to commit themselves to include it in their pre-sales material (i.e. publish it on their websites) and put a leaflet with this information in every EUC shipment. And we rate our recommendation based on their commitment and compliance to do that. In our distributors lists, we identify the ones who "provide responsible customer information" and those who refuse to do so.

What do you think? Am I going overboard, or would something like this be a reasonable approach to help prevent uninformed risk taking and thus help to preserve our options to follow our passion including the educated risk taking it requires?

 

[dpong]

@Tilmann : That's the spirit!  Very mature in my opinion.  

My first wheel came with some stick figure cartoons, some indicating "don't do that" in sign language.  LOL.  I made some ignorant mistakes on my first wheel, and it got me hurt.  The kind of information that you suggest would have been of assistance to me as an uninformed newbie.   So what did I do?  I performed more research (most of it accomplished here at the forum) and bought myself a safer model.  

I think we also do a service here on this site when we encourage new potential buyers to consider the models we believe to be more safe.  In this way, the entire industry can start to get the message.  

I very much appreciate your point of view on this matter. 

[Colestien]

Knowledge is power.  This is the best I have heard so far.  Something like the warning label on cigarettes.  

I know it sounds funny.  But a full disclosure sheet would rock.  I don't feel average.  I'm sure most people don't work at getting info as much as I do.  

  This Forum is the first place where I found the cut off info, and the only place I've seen where there is a mod to fix it.   I know it is a nice thought, but do we really expect everyone to search for info, and end up at this Forum to get the real info?

[OliverH]

I do not think that a new law is always the best answer for every situation.  Also, I would prefer that my hobby not be outlawed.  I prefer not to be ticketed, fined, or jailed.   As they say, when EUCs are outlawed, only outlaws will have EUCs.  Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I'm under the impression that you said all dangerous EUCs should be outlawed.   But that doesn't leave any EUCs left.  You will have outlawed the sport entirely!

I only try to stretch your/our imaginations.  I never understand when people wish to outlaw their own activities.  Technical experts on this very site have discussed the limitations of making these EUCs safe.  If a company could crack that problem, they will take away market share and make a ton of money.  Why wouldn't we think they are already working on that?  

haha. The manufacturers like to pick small coins from the floor instead of picking the dollar notes from the trees. I don't understand them.

You always hear: not possible. There're several ways to build it. With a bit overview on technology the manufacturers can use existing motors for bench testing and only need to downsize them from the business used for to EUs. An other technology is also available in other areas like bicycles and can be used for EUs.

From a parts point of view it's around 100 $ more in price, maybe less.  But the Mainboards/ the firmware need to fulfil more use cases, need more accurate testing and fine tuning. Than the manufacturer need to supply international accepted certificates (CE,..), which the bigger ones deliver as of today. Additionally there is need for ISO60034-1 certification (steady power) and ISO9001:2008 certification covering subcontractor handling in the QM handbook. I can't give real figures on this. But subdivided to sales volume it couldn't been so much.

The EU are vehicles and not toys. If manufacturers get the story they'll earn indeed a lot of money and gain real market share with corresponding sales volumes.

[johnc415]

 

My intention: once we settle on a basic risk information text, which every EUC buyer should be aware of to make an educated decision, we should encourage the many manufacturers and distributors we deal with to commit themselves to include it in their pre-sales material (i.e. publish it on their websites) and put a leaflet with this information in every EUC shipment. And we rate our recommendation based on their commitment and compliance to do that. In our distributors lists, we identify the ones who "provide responsible customer information" and those who refuse to do so.

What do you think? Am I going overboard, or would something like this be a reasonable approach to help prevent uninformed risk taking and thus help to preserve our options to follow our passion including the educated risk taking it requires?

 

I ask my customers to sign and return to me a waiver stating they understand the above mentioned risks - especially the cut off issues and risk of serious injury. I try to stress to them that they are purchasing a very fast wheel that requires protection and serious precautions to be taken. The MSuper2 HS can push 40 kmh, which is great for fun but is serious speed and dangerous if proper precautions are not taken

Kevin Zheng, I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery

[dmethvin]

@Kevin Zheng very sorry to hear you were so seriously injured. I hope you were wearing safety equipment, and this is a good example to everyone that it is extremely important to use some when you ride. 

Last weekend I had a pretty hard fall myself, I am pretty sure I out-leaned my EUC while going up a hill on a street at about 10mph. This is only the second serious fall I've had in more than 500 miles of riding so I don't blame my EUC. Thanks to my gloves and helmet I only suffered a few minor scrapes, but my head hit the pavement pretty hard and I would have been in trouble if I didn't have a helmet on. So all you people who ride without helmets and with your hands in your pockets, it's only a matter of time before you're going to get seriously hurt.

I think @johnc415 is right to have his customers sign a waiver. Think about how dangerous a motorcycle is, we aren't going as fast but a lot of the same problems are there in that we're very exposed to road hazards, pedestrians, other vehicles, and yes even failures of the EUC itself. Even if you fix that last one perfectly, the others are going to get you eventually.

[SirGeraint]

I ask my customers to sign and return to me a waiver stating they understand the above mentioned risks - especially the cut off issues and risk of serious injury. I try to stress to them that they are purchasing a very fast wheel that requires protection and serious precautions to be taken. The MSuper2 HS can push 40 kmh, which is great for fun but is serious speed and dangerous if proper precautions are not taken

Kevin Zheng, I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery

What I like here is while understanding that there are risks you can still show compassion to a stranger on the Internet.

I spent a month or two reading many of the posts on this Forum doing my research before I purchased an EU.  I am the type of person that does a lot of research.  I understand the risks of riding EU's.  I used to skydive and I understood those risks too.

But there was someone I used to know and every time they mentioned their EU crash I would say something like "I'm sorry to hear that.  I hope you recover soon." when I crashed what I got was something more like 'EU's are dangerous. You know that.  You got what you deserved.'.  So while I guess that response might be factual I think it's best to be compassionate about it.  But I do realize that some people just aren't that way and I accept that.

[Phil Wright]

Sorry to hear of your fall Kevin, hope you recover quickly.

This Forum has been invaluable to me as a Newbie who has just made his first purchase of a 9BO e+.

i had no idea of "cutoffs" until I did my research on here, and hearing stories of falls has made me quite cautious. My riding will be around Melbourne's busy CBD, so high speeds for me wont be an issue, but I can see that with confidence comes the feeling of "pushing the limits" and by my very nature i like to push limits, so im sure I'll need to constantly remind myself of the dangers inherent in EUC's .

SirG, I hope your injuries are healing OK, and for those that said "you got what you deserved", well I think they need to go get a life.

[SirGeraint]

       SirG, I hope your injuries are healing OK, and for those that said "you got what you deserved", well I think they need to go get a life.

Thanks, @Phil Wright.  I'm doing about as well as can be expected.  It sounds like @Kevin Zheng has it much worse.  I can't imagine not being able to use either hand.

@Kevin Zheng, I wish you a speedy recovery.  I hope you have someone to take care of you and help you.

[edwin_rm]

Electric unicycles are just like any other extreme sport (skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.). It is risky, but the thrill is very rewarding. All extreme sports come with injuries. Its part of the experience. Electric Unicycles will never be safe, ever.