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Warning to ALL Electric Unicycle users


Kevin Zheng

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Electric unicycles are just like any other extreme sport (skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.). It is risky, but the thrill is very rewarding. All extreme sports come with injuries. Its part of the experience. Electric Unicycles will never be safe, ever.

I would make a pretty high bet that the majority of users of EUCs, say, in the next ten years, will never have extreme sports in their mind when riding an EUC. Like most bikers don't. Sure, nothing will never be safe, ever. The point though is to make things as safe as reasonably possible.

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I very much agree with @dpong. This may sound strange coming from a German, but I would hate even more "verboten" (forbidden) signs spoiling or even ending my EUC fun. On the contrary, being amongst the earliest adopters with an entire new art of transport has me excited and is part of the fun. Problem is: to me, it's important enough to spend countless hours on this forum alone (and then some on fb and youtube) to learn all there is to learn about EUCs and be fully aware of the risks in this early stage of development.

We must not assume, any average consumer spends similar effort to collect this kind of information, which is otherwise "spoon fed" to the buyer of almost any other vehicle (mostly in an "Operators Manual". My GotWays both came with a single page of printed text - in Chinese). While it may take several product generations for EUCs to reach the safety and reliability standards of "mature" transportation products, this information gap should be easier and quicker to close.

In other words: 

  • Dear authorities: don't protect me from risks to myself, which I choose to accept (like I would with pretty much every other sports activity).
  • Dear EUC manufacturers and distributors: Please make it unmistakably clear to any potential customer, that the use of EUCs carries inherent risks at this stage:
    • Be prepared for your EUC to shut down at any time. We cannot guarantee that it doesn't. Sudden and unexpected shutdown results in a high risk of fall and injury, especially at a speed above 10 km/h.
    • No EUC at this time has redundent braking like it is standard with most vehicles (cars, motorbikes, even bicycles). Available motor power is all there is to slow you down. It can fail, and it certainly will fail when overstressed.
    • No EUC has built in protection from "run away" accidents. With involuntary dismount, there is a risk the EUC will continue running away for a considerable distance and cause accidents. At present, using a training belt, rope or leash is the only known method to prevent that.
    • High capacity Lithium based batteries as used in EUCs may cause a fire hazard when mechanically damaged or overcharged. Such battery fires are very difficult to extinguish.
    • Using an EUC on public ground may violate local traffic regulation laws. Its use may even be considered a criminal offense. As a consequence, ordinary private liability insurance may not cover damages caused by using an EUC.

This is just my "5 cents worth" - I would appreciate our community to refine and complete the list.

My intention: once we settle on a basic risk information text, which every EUC buyer should be aware of to make an educated decision, we should encourage the many manufacturers and distributors we deal with to commit themselves to include it in their pre-sales material (i.e. publish it on their websites) and put a leaflet with this information in every EUC shipment. And we rate our recommendation based on their commitment and compliance to do that. In our distributors lists, we identify the ones who "provide responsible customer information" and those who refuse to do so.

What do you think? Am I going overboard, or would something like this be a reasonable approach to help prevent uninformed risk taking and thus help to preserve our options to follow our passion including the educated risk taking it requires?

It's a policy decision about dangerous products which by no means is unique to EUCs. Either we warn the consumers about the danger of a product but otherwise let producers and users do how they like. Or we regulate and approve selling and usage of a potentially dangerous product. It seems to me that the question which policy makes for a better world has been decided a long time ago by overwhelming empirical evidence.

This seems to be true for both, products which can harm innocent bystanders as well as products which can only harm the user themselves (leaving aside that users might not be the buyer themselves, or they might be minors, or they might not have had the chance to read or understand the producers disclaimer before usage for other reasons).

Sure, one can have over-regulation and we all would hate to see this happening to EUCs. However the position that their should be no regulation at all is very unlikely to help to prevent this from happening.

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I ask my customers to sign and return to me a waiver stating they understand the above mentioned risks - especially the cut off issues and risk of serious injury. I try to stress to them that they are purchasing a very fast wheel that requires protection and serious precautions to be taken. The MSuper2 HS can push 40 kmh, which is great for fun but is serious speed and dangerous if proper precautions are not taken

Kevin Zheng, I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery

 Sorry, I was focused on "political" part of this post.  @Kevin Zheng,  I am sorry to hear about you getting hurt so badly.  I hope you recover soon.

   My thoughts instantly went to  "how can we help keep this from happening again".   My son was hurt too, but with him and I, we had heads up.  I had been reading here and knew the risks.  Even though I know I told him about the possible risks.  I still have to wonder if I had made it clear to him.  

@john415 it is a good thing you are doing.  A big part of the troubles with EUC would become history if all dealers would educate the customers.

 

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Electric unicycles are just like any other extreme sport (skateboarding, snowboarding, etc.). It is risky, but the thrill is very rewarding. All extreme sports come with injuries. Its part of the experience. Electric Unicycles will never be safe, ever.

I would make a pretty high bet that the majority of users of EUCs, say, in the next ten years, will never have extreme sports in their mind when riding an EUC. Like most bikers don't. Sure, nothing will never be safe, ever. The point though is to make things as safe as reasonably possible.

Ha, I'm ten years ahead of the pack again :D  Thanks @Niko :). Every once in a while on a weekend ride, I purposely reduce my perceived margin of safety from 20% to 10% and feel tremendously bold doing so - but that's about as "extreme" as it gets for me, a 59 year old couch potato.

>90% of my riding miles are done commuting, buying groceries or running similar errants. The one thing I certainly don't want to do on the way to the office, is pushing the envelope (I like my job, too). When I bought the EUC with the highest performance available at the time, my intention wasn't competitive or "sporty" - rather the opposite: if the safe envelope is as large as possible, it's easier for me to stay well inside those limits and still flow with the bicycle traffic and make it to work in a reasonable time (30 minutes for 6km).

With the 20 some wheelies I met in person so far, I guess max. 20% fit the "extreme sports" category. The other 80% may get a thrill from riding an EUC (I do), but prefer caution over aggressively exploring the limits. While I wish injury on nobody and feel sorry for those of us who hurt themselves, I agree with @edwin_rm to the extent, that using an EUC in an ambitious sportive manner will never be perfectly safe. For the rest of us, maturing the product EUC means: making it's behavior very predictable. Both @Kevin Zheng and @SirGeraint sound like they were caught by surprise.  My best wishes to both of you to get better soon. And thank you and all the others who did for explaining in detail what happened.

Sure, there will be regulation eventually. Shouldn't stop us from pushing for improvements in the right direction, should it?

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@Tilmann : Again I find you to be perfectly on point.  I started riding in March 2015 and I will turn 56 in December of this year.  This, apparently, makes me an old-timer as of now - not the age, but the month I started riding. :)  May I ask when you started?  I'm with you, let's stay in the envelope of "safety" such as it is.  Which is uncertain at best at this point.  ;)  (Updates, aside.)

 

 

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Hi Kevin, I feel very sorry for what happened to you and I hope that you recover quickly and fully. The problem of these sudden shut-downs has been discussed i. e. here. The irresponsibility of the manufacturers is unbearable. But as we are talking about chinese manufacturers I see no solution for the near future. Were all the electric unicycles produced in France, Germany or the United States I am sure, that you wouldn't have had the accident. The possibility of a sudden shut-down is the only scenario that frightens me while using my electric unicycle. But who on earth has the power to force the chinese manufacturers to take responsibility and modify the construction of electric unicycles in a way that makes a sudden shut-off impossible? I am afraid, no one. 

All the best :)

Hi ScooterB, Thanks for your kind word.

Unfortunately the brand cause this accident is on the "Safest" list, and it is a US brand, that why I submit the report to CPSC.

In my point of view, the product safety will be more strong if they are keep collect the feedback and improve the product, we saw the "ABS", "Air Bag" , "Seat Belt" make the car more safety, and they are not on the car first day. 

So I believe if the manufacturer can take their responsibility, electric unicycle can be more and more safety.

What I am concern is, they are not care about how to improve the product, but just want to shift their responsibility. 

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Hi ScooterB, Thanks for your kind word.

Unfortunately the brand cause this accident is on the "Safest" list, and it is a US brand, that why I submit the report to CPSC.

In my point of view, the product safety will be more strong if they are keep collect the feedback and improve the product, we saw the "ABS", "Air Bag" , "Seat Belt" make the car more safety, and they are not on the car first day. 

So I believe if the manufacturer can take their responsibility, electric unicycle can be more and more safety.

As they apparently don't even need to worry too much about being named in public by someone who suffered from a product failure, I can understand that their incentive remains rather moderate to improve on safety. They will rather work on, say, a new look or light modes and thereby get the positive attention with the name of their product attached to it. Just as a reminder, the main purpose of selling EUCs is to make money. 

 

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[...]

Sure, there will be regulation eventually. Shouldn't stop us from pushing for improvements in the right direction, should it?

Of course. That's why I would be asking for regulation, because that is the right direction to address safety concerns.

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Unfortunately the brand cause this accident is on the "Safest" list, and it is a US brand, that why I submit the report to CPSC.

 

Hope for your speedy recovery Kevin. Let me guess, does this brand starts with the letter N?

I think we all have learned a lesson regarding this incident that we should all take care when the battery levels are down for these EUC's are purely battery dependent. And we have always been advised by our forum leaders and moderators to choose the safest and most reliable models and to get the biggest battery capacity that we can afford for added safety margin when buying our EUC's.

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Hi All,

Thanks all of your goodness wish. My English is not very good, so I can not say enough Thank You to all of you.

I am still seeking on lawyer to help me claim my medical expense and recompense, so I do not know it is OK to disclose the brand name or not.

What I can say is, I am very amazed this brand has such issue. Before I purchase the EU, I really understand the product quality is very important, I don't trust the copy cat's product, so I choose the brand whom claim them invent the EU, and it is the most expensive brand on the market.

 

My starting point is: "how to prevent other people be hurt", and "let the good guy make better". There are two different things.

I have not hear about the BMS Shutdown and Mainboard Shutdown before today, but this should be a MUST condition before the product release to the market. If this request can be something like FCC or CE (looking the on the bottom of your iPhone's back, incase your not aware what is FCC or CE) , it can save a lot of people, especially children. This request will make sure the EU fullfill the mini safety require, at least it will not drop you on grand when it running. This is the "how to prevent other people be hurt".

If we can find out a method, let people know the outstanding product, then people can trust the reliable product, just like the NCAP or IIHS does, they test the car, give a car a rating base on the testing, so customer can knew about the safety about the car. This way can "let the good guy make better".

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If we can find out a method, let people know the outstanding product, then people can trust the reliable product, just like the NCAP or IIHS does, they test the car, give a car a rating base on the testing, so customer can knew about the safety about the car. This way can "let the good guy make better".

This looks like a job for Super @vee73 :rolleyes:

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It seem my EU's manufacture is a bad guy, because my EU accident seem like case by the Mainboard Shutdown, because the battery almost 20% ~ 30% on the accident, and the EU light is flash very diffident than normally.

On the next day of the accident, I have send them an e-mail, asking them claim my medical fee and compensation, and told them if they require, I can told them the light's flash rate ( I am 10+ year in IT, so I know if you have not plug the RAM on the mainboard, the speaker will has some beep beep beep, the different beep sound mean different problem, so I guess they can find out the problem by the flash rate).

After several days, the manufacture ask me send the unit back, so they can download the data from the EU, in order to check the issue.

It is sound reasonable because the car's ECU also has such record, if they can download the record from the EU, they will have much better view of this accident, and can make the product better by fix the product's bug.

After they received the EU, they just send me several words: "The machine number xxxxx, there are 6 nicks on the surface, the machine can be charge and can running."

It is sound like they just want to cheat me send the EU back, and then destroy the evidence.

Lucky, I have take a video on my iPhone after the accident, the video showing my hand is shaking after accident, and something about the EU.

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With EU, you can never be sure enough that you can avoid every bump or hole. So needless to say, you should be always prepared that something happens.

I don't consider EU as extreme sport. It's a new bicycle. What happens when these things get more popular and manufacturers don't address the problem with shutdowns? I haven't had a shutdown since one spring. No, that is not exactly true. I've had shutdowns when my battery is low and I'm going uphill. But I don't notice those shutdowns anymore because I already know I'm riding the battery to it's limits and I'm prepared to jump off.

I hope these things get "black boxes" so if something goes wrong, we could later analyze what happened.

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There is only two ways to make 'safer', sell all eu's as a maxed out Gotway but limit speed to 1/2 or 3/4 of capable speed, or add another wheel to make a bicycle... Even then people still get hurt... It's human nature to break and heal....

Black box of the last thirty seconds would be smart....

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  • 3 weeks later...
On Monday, October 26, 2015, Tilmann said:

I very much agree with @dpong. This may sound strange coming from a German, but I would hate even more "verboten" (forbidden) signs spoiling or even ending my EUC fun. On the contrary, being amongst the earliest adopters with an entire new art of transport has me excited and is part of the fun. Problem is: to me, it's important enough to spend countless hours on this forum alone (and then some on fb and youtube) to learn all there is to learn about EUCs and be fully aware of the risks in this early stage of development.

We must not assume, any average consumer spends similar effort to collect this kind of information, which is otherwise "spoon fed" to the buyer of almost any other vehicle (mostly in an "Operators Manual". My GotWays both came with a single page of printed text - in Chinese). While it may take several product generations for EUCs to reach the safety and reliability standards of "mature" transportation products, this information gap should be easier and quicker to close.

In other words: 

  • Dear authorities: don't protect me from risks to myself, which I choose to accept (like I would with pretty much every other sports activity).
  • Dear EUC manufacturers and distributors: Please make it unmistakably clear to any potential customer, that the use of EUCs carries inherent risks at this stage:
    • Be prepared for your EUC to shut down at any time. We cannot guarantee that it doesn't. Sudden and unexpected shutdown results in a high risk of fall and injury, especially at a speed above 10 km/h.
    • No EUC at this time has redundent braking like it is standard with most vehicles (cars, motorbikes, even bicycles). Available motor power is all there is to slow you down. It can fail, and it certainly will fail when overstressed.
    • No EUC has built in protection from "run away" accidents. With involuntary dismount, there is a risk the EUC will continue running away for a considerable distance and cause accidents. At present, using a training belt, rope or leash is the only known method to prevent that.
    • High capacity Lithium based batteries as used in EUCs may cause a fire hazard when mechanically damaged or overcharged. Such battery fires are very difficult to extinguish.
    • Using an EUC on public ground may violate local traffic regulation laws. Its use may even be considered a criminal offense. As a consequence, ordinary private liability insurance may not cover damages caused by using an EUC.

This is just my "5 cents worth" - I would appreciate our community to refine and complete the list.

My intention: once we settle on a basic risk information text, which every EUC buyer should be aware of to make an educated decision, we should encourage the many manufacturers and distributors we deal with to commit themselves to include it in their pre-sales material (i.e. publish it on their websites) and put a leaflet with this information in every EUC shipment. And we rate our recommendation based on their commitment and compliance to do that. In our distributors lists, we identify the ones who "provide responsible customer information" and those who refuse to do so.

What do you think? Am I going overboard, or would something like this be a reasonable approach to help prevent uninformed risk taking and thus help to preserve our options to follow our passion including the educated risk taking it requires?

 

Sorry Kevin, get better soon, and thanks for posting this, I find it courageous that you've shared your painfull experience with us

I would add: 'Dear user, you will fail, fall and fly in various combinations when riding this device'

My dealer told me to be 'careful'.

I know how to take a fall, but as I tend to push things to the limit (they told me this gets better with age, but they were wrong) I used full protective gear from day one (including a skate helmet, NOT a bike helmet).

After I made a triple forward judo roll in front of my neighbours the 2nd or 3rd week when the BMS cut in, I contacted my dealer to tell them to advise every buyer to wear full protective gear (helmet, wrist, elbows, knees). They (the hubby and wife) keep saying that after thousands of Km they've never fallen off, and that people should be 'careful'.

Whell, when your EUC dies on you when going 20KmH, being careful is cleary not going to cut it.

A skate helmet and wrist protection seems a minimum to me for experienced riders, and full gear for the newby, overweight, fragile, or other higher risk users.

We should get the word out, and make people safe before regulators start limiting max speed or start banning EUCs

 

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Well I have only just started on a cheap basic model. Fortunately I am reasonably quick learner for a 63 year old. However on my second learning session whilst going up a slope on my training circuit the motor cut out suddenly. I only discovered the reason why by researching the problem and finding the answer on your forums. As I understand it, Kingsong have solved the problem and now produce a safe range of wheels. Knowing how insidiously the Chinese manufacturers rip off each others products I think it is safe to say that these improvements will be reverse engineered and adopted by other Chinese manufacturers very quickly without the need for any legislation at all.

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It's actually quite a bit more complex than that I've learned through this forum the last couple of weeks, there is no 'the' problem.

There are different threads here on safety and bad falls because battery limitations, motor limitations, BMS, during accelerating/braking/balancing and then there's the occasional defect where the EUC dies on you.

A device with only one wheel, autobalancing gyro and no redundancy in the design will never ever be 'safe', I'm afraid.

The smartest thing to do is go for a good brand (IPS, Gotway, King Son,..), get the highest capacity battery, the most powerfull engine, wear full protective gear, and don't push things to the limit when you are not ready to pay the price.

Reseller should understand the basics about the design and the risks envolved (mine didn't, and I've had a few nasty falls in the beginning), and make these clear to every client when selling an EUC.

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I've found the common misunderstanding with EUC is the very nature of the self balancing mechanism. I've had a few people ask "why does it have a speed limit / if I can disable the tiltback I can just go faster surely?" people need to understand your body weight will always be able to overpower the motor on a cheap EUC, and this device is unique in that the full operation of all parts of the system is essential 100% of the time for it to not fail catastrophically (compared to an ebike or scooter which can safely fail and allow you to free wheel).

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