Rama Douglas Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Well, yesterday it seemed great. Today, after a few horizontal calibrations, to get the headlight pointed at the best angle for night riding, I've been experiencing tilt-back at 26-28mph. The tilt-back is gentler than with the old 1.11 FW, but I was not expecting premature tilt-back. I had a 33 mph speedometer reading yesterday, though it could have been a fluke, and I didn't ever test my speed with app and phone in hand. But I did that tonight at between 55 and 60 % battery and kept getting tiltback at 26-28mph. I was able to push it to 29/30mph, but with a severe angle of tilt. I tried lowering the speed settings, and it worked as my settings indicated, but when I put it back to 50kph, it still was tilting me at 26 mph...Not happy. I'll re-test tomorrow on a full charge. If it's better tomorrow, I'll assume that throttling speed starts at a higher batt percentage than prior FW. @US69 is this how the new FW is programmed? To throttle at 55% battery?!? Or is my wheel having problems? Anyone else having issues with 1.13? Edited July 5, 2019 by Rama Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Rama Douglas said: percentage than prior FW. @US69 is this how the new FW is programmed? To throttle at 55% Battey?!? Or is my wheel having problems? Anyone else having issues with 1.13? Nope! I can only say that really nothing was changed on Speed Throttling...... Edited July 4, 2019 by US69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 US69: many users KS18XL will probably stay away from updating to 1.13 and in this way KingSong tech people will never know what impact has their modifications in the majority of wheels out there. In my opinion, three must be a possibility to downgrade available to registered users so in this way users can understand differences between FW versions and also post here what they observe after FW update. Please suggest somewhere that at least we can have in KingSong application possibility to go to previews firmware....downgrade. Also, besides you (we thank you) we need more interaction from KingSong tech representative to help us stay true on our KS beloved wheels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 11 minutes ago, Meserias said: US69: many users KS18XL will probably stay away from updating to 1.13 Why should they? The app tells you there is a new update available…. When you go to the Update menu you CAN CHOOSE if you want to upgrade AND you can even see in the app what the new Firmware is About (Change log). If the update is not worth for you...just dont update. 13 minutes ago, Meserias said: In my opinion, three must be a possibility to Downgrade First of all...Updates are seldom, and if there is one, there are mainly 2 reasons: Safety or Improvements. Improvements, when not for "better riding" are mostly steered by what the community wants, for example other light Patterns. However: The same as for example IOS or other Software there will be no Firmware Downgrade available, mostly for security reasons….. And as said above: You can see, whats the new update About before installing! There is a Change Log..... 18 minutes ago, Meserias said: Also, besides you (we thank you) we need more interaction from KingSong tech representative to help us stay true on our KS beloved wheels. I have said it quite often...a lot People totally overestimate the size of the KingSong Company. From all EUC Producers they are probably the smallest! So their is no "Tech reprensentative" as all their engeneers are only chinese speaking. And just for comparison: Where are the representatives from GW, IM or 9bot? You will not find one ...and 2 of the named companies are multi-Million Dollar brands So i only want to Point out that KS allready is doing a lot for customer communication. And btw.: I am Pretty good at tech Questions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, US69 said: When you go to the Update menu you CAN CHOOSE if you want to upgrade AND you can even see in the app what the new Firmware is About (Change log). Are the new and exciting bugs also in the change log? 3 minutes ago, US69 said: First of all...Updates are seldom, and if there is one, there are mainly 2 reasons: Safety or Improvements. So are people supposed to upgrade their firmware (because safety and improvements! Safety is important right?) or not (because they CAN CHOOSE if they upgrade, and why upgrade if you don't have to!)? - Sorry but you're just making bad excuses for Kingsong here A firmware rollback option if the latest firmware turns out to be buggy on a wheel is a very natural request. I dread the day Gotway has firmware updates if even KS has so many bugs and issues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) 52 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Are the new and exciting bugs also in the change log? No clue what you are pointing to…….This one report here? where -at the moment- no one knows whats going on? Perhaps you should go over to the other Firmware thread and read About the other Feedback of v.1.13 52 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Sorry but you're just making bad excuses for Kingsong here A firmware rollback option if the latest firmware turns out to be buggy on a wheel is a very natural request. Nope, IF the latest Firmware WOULD be Buggy.....you deliver a new Firmware Version. Thats how it normally works with iterative Software Development. 52 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: dread the day Gotway has firmware updates if even KS has so many bugs and issues Thats what Firmware updates are for, get away with Bugs, issues and fullfill customer requirements/wishes. Naaah, does not Sound like GW would ever implement something like this, it is just not on their agenda Edited July 4, 2019 by US69 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 1 hour ago, meepmeepmayer said: Sorry but you're just making bad excuses for Kingsong here A firmware rollback option if the latest firmware turns out to be buggy on a wheel is a very natural request. I dread the day Gotway has firmware updates if even KS has so many bugs and issues First of no wheel I have seen since started to research and the buying and riding EUC is perfect and issue free. No matter what brand you have. Secondly I prefer the option to fix/change/give new function in a firmware rather than having to by a new hardware version. Hint both Inmotion and KS seem to get this. I work with printers and cameras. In general a firmware update should not interduce new issues, it should only fix stuff. Rolling back is in most cases not feasible or ideal as some coding can then behave oddly and especially is it is a split unit firmware. Eg psu, main and subboard part. So buttom line, board firmware is not like a computer with huge OS and programs. And as for latest version is a nice improvement in my view KS18L v1.13 wise. I would expect KS18XL to be similar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Douglas Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) So if there is no way to revert back to the old FW, and at least try a re-install of 1.13 (which I felt greatly improved the wheel) then what are my options? Am I now stuck with a wheel with annoying tilt back at 26mph?!?? What are my options? Do I need to send it to @Jason McNeil for them to run tests? Seems my only option...as This tilt-back is a huge bummer for me as I have been normally breaking 30mph on every ride lately. ☹️ I will be re-testing it shortly... Edited July 4, 2019 by Rama Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 10 hours ago, Rama Douglas said: Anyone else having issues with 1.13? I think most people don't even ride near the 30 mph limit. So even if behaviour you experience is really linked to 1.13 upgrade, it will be hard to confirm by other riders. However, you wrote that you experienced this premature tiltback after playing with horizontal calibration. Please try to make another calibration, this time with pedals fully horizontal, and let us know if this helped. I suspect that KS board doesn't allow for adjusting tilt angle in this way. This is also why many people reported wheel dipping in turns when wheel was not correctly calibrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Douglas Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 31 minutes ago, Seba said: I think most people don't even ride near the 30 mph limit. So even if behaviour you experience is really linked to 1.13 upgrade, it will be hard to confirm by other riders. However, you wrote that you experienced this premature tiltback after playing with horizontal calibration. Please try to make another calibration, this time with pedals fully horizontal, and let us know if this helped. I suspect that KS board doesn't allow for adjusting tilt angle in this way. This is also why many people reported wheel dipping in turns when wheel was not correctly calibrated. Thx, Seba. I've been testing all morning so far. Calibrated again, and getting tiltback at 28/29mph consistently on my speedometer app. I was however not getting tiltback until 50kph in Kingsong app. I think maybe the wheel is alright, but still doesn't explain why it was tilting at 26mph yesterday. Only thing I can think of regarding the speedometer app and Kingsong app tilting at different readings is either a software difference, or the speedometer app is GPS based and KS app is maybe based on wheel revolutions. If that's the case then it would make sense that with my added tire pressure I'll be hitting top speed in the KS app at different actual speed than than the speedometer app (which has given me plenty of false readings in the past). I've actually never really done these tests before yesterday and today, as these are first days with new FW. I hope others can test this as well and report back. I guess maybe I'm at the point where I need a faster wheel. 😱 Hopefully KS will give us some additional speed on a forthcoming update...😎 I will also test when I get down to 50% battery like yesterday... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seba Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 14 minutes ago, Rama Douglas said: Thx, Seba. I've been testing all morning so far. Calibrated again, and getting tiltback at 28/29mph consistently on my speedometer app. I was however not getting tiltback until 50kph in Kingsong app. I think maybe the wheel is alright, but still doesn't explain why it was tilting at 26mph yesterday. Only thing I can think of regarding the speedometer app and Kingsong app tilting at different readings is either a software difference, or the speedometer app is GPS based and KS app is maybe based on wheel revolutions. If that's the case then it would make sense that with my added tire pressure I'll be hitting top speed in the KS app at different actual speed than than the speedometer app (which has given me plenty of false readings in the past). I've actually never really done these tests before yesterday and today, as these are first days with new FW. I hope others can test this as well and report back. I guess maybe I'm at the point where I need a faster wheel. 😱 Hopefully KS will give us some additional speed on a forthcoming update...😎 I will also test when I get down to 50% battery like yesterday... Well... KS wheel reports speed that is based on wheel revs and is inflated by about 20 % (as confirmed by many users), so if your speedometer shows GPS-based speed, we have an explanation You can use euc.world WheelLog to log your ride, so you'll see that there is an offset between wheel-reported speed and GPS speed. So if you set tiltback at 30 mph it will really kick in at lower real speed. The same apply to beeps. Try to verify tiltback with KS app (or WheelLog, as on main screen it shows wheel-based speed reading). Both apps should show 30 mph on tiltback start. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Douglas Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 59 minutes ago, Seba said: Well... KS wheel reports speed that is based on wheel revs and is inflated by about 20 % (as confirmed by many users), so if your speedometer shows GPS-based speed, we have an explanation You can use euc.world WheelLog to log your ride, so you'll see that there is an offset between wheel-reported speed and GPS speed. So if you set tiltback at 30 mph it will really kick in at lower real speed. The same apply to beeps. Try to verify tiltback with KS app (or WheelLog, as on main screen it shows wheel-based speed reading). Both apps should show 30 mph on tiltback start. We'll I'm at 50% and was able to hit 31. May have been the calibration. At night I like to have it calibrated slightly up, as the angle of the light is better for acceleration, but definitely gonna leave it alone now. I hit 31 on speedometer app and 51.something on KS app, and am lovingthe feel of the new FW. Thx for the tips, @Seba! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rama Douglas Posted July 4, 2019 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 (edited) Eh, well spoke too soon, as it was tilting me back at 26-28 mph again below 50%. I'm guessing it's a 1.13 FW issue. Need some feedback from others to see if it's just me, or the FW update in general. Hopefully, some others will chime in. Not sure why, but it does seem easier now to hit top speed, but below 50% battery, it just ain't happening...☹️ Edited July 5, 2019 by Rama Douglas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meserias Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 US69: we appreciate your effort to be here and hear us....that a proven fact already. And we all thank you. Apple it's one of the BAD examples (ask advanced iPhone users if they are happy with Apple not signing old FW version ...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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