Blueblade Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 So I got my first EUC for Christmas, a Solowheel glide 3. It is lot more challenging than I expected to learn, but still very fun and addictive! Anyway, Inmotion site says it is good for riders up to 260lbs and inclines up to 25 degs sustained.. sounds good! After getting it and finding eWheels and this forum, I see eWheels recommends *against* a Glide 3 for riders over 220lbs, but does say its possible if ridden conservatively. I am 240lbs and live in a kind of hilly area, lots of hills I've measured to be between 5-12 degs steep, and maybe up to 100 yards long or so. Should I be concerned? Anything in particular should I watch out for? Im just getting to the point of actually riding it (nevously, awkwardly) and staying on basically flat areas. Im a little nervous now after reading that eWheels recommendation, plus the stories on here about cutouts, faceplants, and reduced battery power in cold weather (it is a little cool here this time of year in the Seattle area). I wanted this model because it seemed to be a sweet spot for a first time EUC without growing out of it right after learning how to ride like a cheaper model (V5) , yet not so expensive (and heavier/cumbersome) for something higher end like the V10... but now im hoping i didn't pick the wrong one. $900 for an entry level already seemed like a splurge type of purchase for something unusual like this. I guess I've got more motivation than ever to lose 20lbs and always wear protective gear while riding now at least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Congratulations and Welcome @Blueblade to la cosa nostra. You'll be fine........as long as you obey the following guidelines faithfully: 1. Never show off. Showing off usually end in an embarrassing and or painful face plant. 2. 800W motor isn't bad but its a bit blunted in a 16" format (the smaller the wheel the torquier it is apparently) my 14" 800W wheel could climb anything But I'm also 55lb lighter than you. 3. Learn the limits of a 480Wh battery pack. Not the smallest but not big either. Here are a few points: Basically when the battery level (at rest) drops below 55% (est) ride conservatively When the battery is below 30% you better be heading home gingerly Try to start each ride with 80 to 90% charge. or 100% if you know you will be riding it soon after reaching that charge (same day) Don't charge to 100% if your ride starts with a down hill section. It will make you get off. Your weight will put a high demand on the battery when climbing hills, driveway inclines, etc. The steeper the hill the more the demand. Reduce that demand by slowing down before beginning to climb (less work per second, etc) Your weight will put a high demand on the battery when accelerating, so accelerate calmly and smoothly. Be smooth. Sudden demands for power can demand more power than is available in that time frame = face plant. Watch out for bumps and holes. they will create momentary power demands that your battery/motor might not have = face plant. EDIT Use your knees as shock absorbers AND to reduce the strain on the wheel. e.g when riding a side walk and it drops down into a driveway, it will climb out of that drive way 15 feet later. Firstly, pick the least steep part, Secondly, when it starts to climb, you bend your knees by the same amount, that way it isn't pushing your whole weight up the incline. Once at the top you can straighten you knees again to your normal position. Same rules apply to other bumps, bend the knees to reduce the weight lifted over the bump. All this battery talk is worse when they are cold. Don't leave the wheel in the cold You will almost always fall on your wrists so wear guards every time. Your choice on all the other stuff. I wear wrist, elbow, knee, and forearm protection. You decide about helmets, it's your head. Start looking for your "should have bought this one first" wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Welcome to the club First, are you 240-pounds with all your clothes on, jacket, helmet, etc.? Since you are borderline Glide 3 safe, this is one place you don't want to be estimating your weight. Gear up like you're going to ride and then get on the scale. We've got some heavy folks here that ride (@The Fat Unicyclist) that may be able to chime in with more authority than lightweight me I'm sure the Glide 3 will be fine for learning and riding conservatively (no hard or semi-hard accelerations/braking, etc), mostly on level ground. But for your health and piece of mind I would plan on upgrading to a daily use wheel. Particularly for a new rider, the KS18XL is a superb wheel to aim for. The MSX is also a great wheel for heavy folks, but I think the 18XL is a better beginner/intermediate wheel. The thing is, you want a wheel with sturdy mechanics and in particular, lots of reserve power. If I weighed in your neighborhood I would not want to ride a wheel without 1600wh of power. And please gear up. This is a contact 'sport' and we all fall, including you. And we will all fall hard one day, given enough riding miles. The heavier the rider the more impactful the fall to ground will be. So the more padding at all the hard points the better. Don't let any of this put you off. Whatever you have to do, trust me, you'll be glad you did as you enjoy the freedom of one-wheel transportation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted January 15, 2019 Author Share Posted January 15, 2019 Cool, thanks both for the advice, I was weighing myself without clothes between 235-238 lbs, so good point about weighing suited up. I was wearing a foam bicycle helmet, and motorcycle jacket and gloves (handy since I already have them, and feature padded leather elbows/shoulders). I'll heed the advice and invest in some wrist guards, too. (And probably knees too). I also have full face street and dirt bike helmets i could use instead for better face protection albeit much heavier than the bicycle helmet. I noticed wheellog can log data to a csv file, and it has some good details on voltage, current, temp, etc which might be enlightening to study after riding on some hills under different conditions to get an idea of power demands with my weight in this area. Ive already been riding gingerly due to newness and will continue to do so due to weight after reading all this, as i do seem to be on the edge of safe performance. Actually its funny but i now feel more motivated to shed the extra weight for the sake of unicycling than i was just for general benefit. It is pretty fun, and I haven't felt this way in a long time, kind of like being a kid again or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 2 hours ago, Blueblade said: Cool, thanks both for the advice, I was weighing myself without clothes between 235-238 lbs, so good point about weighing suited up. I was wearing a foam bicycle helmet, and motorcycle jacket and gloves (handy since I already have them, and feature padded leather elbows/shoulders). I'll heed the advice and invest in some wrist guards, too. (And probably knees too). I also have full face street and dirt bike helmets i could use instead for better face protection albeit much heavier than the bicycle helmet. I noticed wheellog can log data to a csv file, and it has some good details on voltage, current, temp, etc which might be enlightening to study after riding on some hills under different conditions to get an idea of power demands with my weight in this area. Ive already been riding gingerly due to newness and will continue to do so due to weight after reading all this, as i do seem to be on the edge of safe performance. Actually its funny but i now feel more motivated to shed the extra weight for the sake of unicycling than i was just for general benefit. It is pretty fun, and I haven't felt this way in a long time, kind of like being a kid again or something. Feeling like a kid again. That's a good reason to be alive. Wheelog CSV; very good idea. Elbows; my elbows ALWAYS go down in a FP; get them protected ASAP. I don't think you are on the edge of safe performance as long as you don't try to hot dog that thing like you see people doing in videos. Most of the videos are made by people who have put in thousands of miles and had a fair few "oh shit" moments along the way. You know; the school of hard knocks. If you ride it calmly and respect the limitations of the immediate environment, you could have many thousands of happy miles on it; as long as you become a student of Li-Ion batteries and understand their idiosyncrasies. This is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing for someone in your situation. Ride within the envelope dictated by your situation and you will NEVER face plant, due to the wheel. I am not over stating this. Almost all of my face plants came about by not understanding/respecting/knowing the limitations of my original 340Wh battery, AND, I would happily ride that thing today (withing its own envelope of limitations) if it weren't in need of some repairs. So don't feel like you made a mistake. It's an expensive "I wonder if I will like it" activity, and you went conservative; that's understandable. In the future you will have a "training" wheel to teach all the beautiful young ladies who will be lining up to try it. Sorry, did I say beautiful young ladies? I meant fat old men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Hey everyone... Sorry for the delayed response (it's summer here, so more time is being spent on the wheel than on the computer). And Hi @Blueblade, welcome to your next addiction! Now 240 lb is a number that I remember resemble and I can definitely relate to your concern. I also live in a hilly area, so I can relate to that too - in fact I live 1 km up a 12° slope, meaning hills are a daily event. And with that said, here is my take on your challenge... An 800 W motor should be able to get you up a 12° slope, but performance (or failure) will depend on the battery charge or (more importantly) whether enough current can be pulled - I can ride an 800 W wheel up my hill, but I can also cause it to fail just by leaning into it and pushing too hard. So you should be good to ride on your wheel, but I would strongly recommend that you don't push it hard or take it to the limit (as that is when any environmental change will require more power than is available). Now that you can ride, if you did want to swap up, @Marty Backe's suggestion of a King Song 18L or 18XL is worth considering. That is what I ride on a daily basis, and the larger wheel size "fits" the heavier rider better. With the additional motor power and additional available electrons, you will be amazed at what you can do... I ride my 18L home (up that 1 km slope at 12°) at 40 km/h. It is a totally different machine and ideal for us fatties. I think there is also a different riding style required for the bigger riders. Let me know if you are interested to know more and I will work on a post or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Awesome thanks for the insight..wow that is pretty impressive with the 40kph for a heavier rider up a hill like that (12° doesn't *sound* steep, but it is a fairly steep hill, I was surprised to see a number that low when I measured a steeper hill by my house thinking it might be closer to that 25° max incline in the EUC specs...). I think you all have convinced me on what I want for my next EUC: an 18XL, once i get over the price :-) ( lots of niceties too like usb ports and 4x speakers). Just curious, do you find it to be cumbersome/unwieldy to ride on sidewalks/paved trails around obstacles/people? I saw a video comparo between the V8 and V10 where they described the V10 like a large SUV, big, comfortable, powerful, and better suited to open terrain and long commutes, and that he would rather ride the V8 on most occasions around the city-- and the V10 is a smaller lighter 16" wheel vs the KS18XL. As to the earlier suggestion on studying the battery capabilities, I see eWheels has a good article on the cell types and amperage, etc. That + some wheelog data on test runs up hills + some work in Excel, and im sure i can learn some good insights. My regular job involves a fair amount of work with data analysis in Excel or other tools, so I should be able to manage this OK. I'll be sure to share what I learn here if/when I do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, Blueblade said: (12° doesn't *sound* steep, but it is a fairly steep hill, I was surprised to see a number that low when I measured a steeper hill by my house thinking it might be closer to that 25° max incline in the EUC specs...). I did this exact exercise when looking at my first hill. It looked like Everest to me, but when I put my phone app angle reader on it. it said 5deg. I thought my app was broken. 5deg looked huge to this newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted February 2, 2019 Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 5:37 AM, Blueblade said: Just curious, do you find it to be cumbersome/unwieldy to ride on sidewalks/paved trails around obstacles/people? When you first get on an 18XL (from what you are used to) it will seem big and heavy... But after a few kilometres when you have gotten used to it you will find that it is actually very agile (for an 18" wheel). The physics of the size and weight means that it will never be quite as nimble as a smaller wheel, but I can ride mine at (slower than) a walking speed through crowded markets with no issue at all. And then, when the crowd thins out and the path ahead is wide and smooth... You can disappear into the sunset in a matter of seconds!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 On 2/2/2019 at 1:59 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said: I can ride mine at (slower than) a walking speed through crowded markets with no issue at all. And then, when the crowd thins out and the path ahead is wide and smooth... You can disappear into the sunset in a matter of seconds!!! Well that sounds like the perfect combo! (Of course I am only imagining since I can't even ride my small light Glide 3 to that level yet!) Probably the only real downside to the bigger EUC then is the heft/bulk when *not* riding, but you can't have power+range without extra weight. It still amazes me the capability packed inside whenever I look at my little Glide 3, and thankfully (or not) I still have plenty of learning to do with it still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 hours ago, Blueblade said: Well that sounds like the perfect combo! (Of course I am only imagining since I can't even ride my small light Glide 3 to that level yet!) Probably the only real downside to the bigger EUC then is the heft/bulk when *not* riding, but you can't have power+range without extra weight. It still amazes me the capability packed inside whenever I look at my little Glide 3, and thankfully (or not) I still have plenty of learning to do with it still. It is a heavy wheel, but then that just saves on buying a gym membership! But seriously, I hardly ever need to lift it. the King Song trolley handle is one of the best designs - it rolls smoother than my luggage (and that was made by Porsche). When I do have to lift it though (eg. in or out of the car), it isn't too bad... But then people tell me that I'm not the most petite of riders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 7:48 AM, The Fat Unicyclist said: I ride my 18L home (up that 1 km slope at 12°) at 40 km/h. Video please with telemetry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Smoother said: Video please with telemetry Sorry @Smoother he video isn't going to happen, as I'm not prepard to try to manage a camera while riding at that speed. But I will work on some telemetry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 22 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: Sorry @Smoother he video isn't going to happen, as I'm not prepard to try to manage a camera while riding at that speed. But I will work on some telemetry... Your wife has hands, she can hold the camera Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Smoother said: Your wife has hands, she can hold the camera Good point... I will work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 minutes ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: Good point... I will work on it. It would also be excellent marketing for your store; assuming it doesn't end in a face plant, but you could always edit that part out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 One thing I want to mention regarding the wheel requirements is perspective. My first wheel just a few years ago was the Lhotz, 340Wh battery, ~500W motor. Granted I ”only” weigh 200lbs, but the wheel was a life changer for me. There were no 2000W wheels available, so no-one expected to zoom up hills at 40km/h. Or even at 20km/h. Your wheel has full potential in creating you a marvellous hobby/lifestyle, which you will describe as being the funnest thing one can do. The key thing is when you watch Youtube videos on 150lbs riders flying on 2000W wheels, you understand that you will not be able to do anything even close to what they do regarding acceleration, speed, and hills. If this leaves an itch, THEN you need a powerful new generation wheel. Whichever wheel you ride, ALWAYS gear up. Every single time you step on. Surprises and accidents are just that, surprises. Low power wheel is easier to ditch you at a bump, while high power wheels provoke faster speeds. Don’t question the need to gear up and it won’t feel like a burden. And welcome amongst the funnest thing one can do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 hours ago, mrelwood said: One thing I want to mention regarding the wheel requirements is perspective. My first wheel just a few years ago was the Lhotz, 340Wh battery, ~500W motor. Granted I ”only” weigh 200lbs, but the wheel was a life changer for me. There were no 2000W wheels available, so no-one expected to zoom up hills at 40km/h. Or even at 20km/h. Your wheel has full potential in creating you a marvellous hobby/lifestyle, which you will describe as being the funnest thing one can do. The key thing is when you watch Youtube videos on 150lbs riders flying on 2000W wheels, you understand that you will not be able to do anything even close to what they do regarding acceleration, speed, and hills. If this leaves an itch, THEN you need a powerful new generation wheel. Whichever wheel you ride, ALWAYS gear up. Every single time you step on. Surprises and accidents are just that, surprises. Low power wheel is easier to ditch you at a bump, while high power wheels provoke faster speeds. Don’t question the need to gear up and it won’t feel like a burden. And welcome amongst the funnest thing one can do! Having evolved with this silly EUC technology too, I completely understand your comments... In fact, I still have an LHOTZ charged and ready to go about 5 metres away (in case of an apocalypse)! But coming from that "era" the new-found freedom of a powerful 18XL makes me appreciate what lighter riders used to experience, and possibly just a little bit of jealousy of what they can now achieve - In fact, one of my customers recently told me that he completed a 100 km ride and still had 20% left in his battery... Something I will never be able to do. But the freedom and enjoyment I get from what someone my size can do on a "super" EUC... Simply unequalled, in every way!!! And yes, that is partly because I can relax more because I am geared up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: the new-found freedom of a powerful 18XL makes me appreciate what lighter riders used to experience Absolutely! What I do with my MSX compared to the Lhotz, it's a different hobby. Like cross-country skiing vs slalom. But I think this thread needed another aspect next to the ones concentrating in the OP's new wheel being underpowered and dangerous. Once he gets properly bitten, a new wheel is in the cart in a month anyway... Ps. The GW Nikola might be a really nasty hill climber for hefty riders. MSX motor and battery, but even more (!) torque from the smaller wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 @mrelwood You have over 9,200km on your 16s? !!!!! and over 18,000km on PEVs ! Fluck, that's a lot! Any maintenance/repair issues with those 9,200km? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 5, 2019 Share Posted February 5, 2019 59 minutes ago, Smoother said: @mrelwood You have over 9,200km on your 16s? !!!!! and over 18,000km on PEVs ! Fluck, that's a lot! Yep. What can I say... I like riding. 😁 My car gets a lot less distance in a year! Quote Any maintenance/repair issues with those 9,200km? On the KS16 I snapped a critical pedal column bolt ”already” at 8000km: Other than that, no. These things are tanks. I am a tweaker however, so I do work on my wheels quite often. If I wouldn’t, I’m sure a bolt or a few would’ve gotten loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Ah, I must have been on a forum sabbatical when that thread surfaced. "KS 16S Pedal arm bolt snapped already!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueblade Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 So I've been reading and absorbing all I can. I know this wheel has (40) LG MH1 cells in a 20S*2P configuration, each cell can reliably deliver 10A all the way down until to basically empty at 3V, although may be able to deliver more for short duration. The 2P factor of the pack doubles that to 20A. Limit #1. Ref: https://www.ewheels.com/choosing-an-electric-unicycle-with-the-right-battery-pack-for-you/ also: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399799-Test-Review-of-LG-18650-MH1-3200mAh-(Cyan) The motor is rated for 800w continuous (limit#2) but can handle short peaks "much higher". The battery pack can deliver much more than 800W, so its probably that 20A limit on our battery where we can cut/brown out * some minimum voltage to operate at (... appears to be ~3.6v per cell ) 3.6v × 20s = 72V; 72V x 20A = 1440W) = "safe" peak wattage (limit #3). That gives me some params (limits) to compare my wheellog data to and give me an idea how close i am to it on various hills at various speeds: Max current < 20A "Sustained" wattage < 800W Max wattage <= 1440W Oh and can't wait to see video/data from @The Fat Unicyclist on that hill climb for comparison! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoother Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 6 hours ago, Blueblade said: So I've been reading and absorbing all I can. I know this wheel has (40) LG MH1 cells in a 20S*2P configuration, each cell can reliably deliver 10A all the way down until to basically empty at 3V, although may be able to deliver more for short duration. The 2P factor of the pack doubles that to 20A. Limit #1. Ref: https://www.ewheels.com/choosing-an-electric-unicycle-with-the-right-battery-pack-for-you/ also: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?399799-Test-Review-of-LG-18650-MH1-3200mAh-(Cyan) The motor is rated for 800w continuous (limit#2) but can handle short peaks "much higher". The battery pack can deliver much more than 800W, so its probably that 20A limit on our battery where we can cut/brown out * some minimum voltage to operate at (... appears to be ~3.6v per cell ) 3.6v × 20s = 72V; 72V x 20A = 1440W) = "safe" peak wattage (limit #3). That gives me some params (limits) to compare my wheellog data to and give me an idea how close i am to it on various hills at various speeds: Max current < 20A "Sustained" wattage < 800W Max wattage <= 1440W Oh and can't wait to see video/data from @The Fat Unicyclist on that hill climb for comparison! Well you now know more about your batteries than I do or ever will about mine. But you don't need to know any of that stuff . All you really need to know is in my first reply to you on this thread. Those "rules" apply to any wheel, any make and any smallish battery pack (under 900Wh) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 In theory @Blueblade has really done an admirable job in finding out and learning! Even a drop of that kind of an attitude would have saved many newbies from unnecessary faceplants. But: - The wheel behavior, safety limits and energency shutdowns are managed by software. The developer might have a different idea on what the suitable limits are, be it right or wrong. - The wattage displayed to the user (thru any app) is not nearly precise enough for any relevant readings. For example, mine shows past 8000W during a medium acceleration on flat ground. - Smoother’s first reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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