Anton Prinsloo Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 Hi Guys,I'm planning to get a King Song 16 S and here in South Africa it will cost a small fortune to import...My question is: Will there be a difference in torque and speed between the 680wh and 840wh battery options or will it only be the range that would be affected? I'd rather pay more and get the bigger battery if there would be a notable difference. Thanks in advance for letting me pick your brain...Anton. Sent from my iPad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 10, 2018 Share Posted May 10, 2018 20 minutes ago, Anton Prinsloo said: Hi Guys, Welcome to the forum! Quote I'm planning to get a King Song 16 S and here in South Africa it will cost a small fortune to import...My question is: Will there be a difference in torque and speed between the 680wh and 840wh battery options or will it only be the range that would be affected? I'd rather pay more and get the bigger battery if there would be a notable difference. ... Yes and no ? Maximum possible speed is restricted by the KS firmware once a certain battery charge percentage is reached. So with the lower capacity version speed restrictions kick in sooner - but if you drive just a couple of miles and recharge before the next ride you'll never notice... Torque should be about the same, since both versions have the same battery pack configuration 2 times 16s2p (2 cells in parallel and 16 of these in series). One version has roughly some ~2700mAh cells the bigger one ~3500mAh cells. So available current from the battery should be about comparable. Just as the maximum available torque gets lower, the lower the battery voltage is (roughly proportional to the remaining charge plus an offset) the lower capacity pack version will sooner have a bit less maximum torque available. Imho in normal use not really noticable - your decision should be based on your planned milage. For this don't trust the advertised milages - they are for lightweight chinese rides going downhill with tailwind! And as driving is fun expect to go for longer rides than you'd imagine by now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Hi Chriull, Thanks so much for your reply! Now the price difference between the 680 and 840 is about £150... With my Ninebot one I normally do about 15 - 20km per session as here in Johannesburg we don't have bike paths and even sidewalks aren't always available making it quite difficult to do long rides... Would you say it would be worth it to spend the extra $$$ in my case? I can't find the range for the 680 battery anywhere but it should be way more than 20km... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WARPed1701D Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 2 hours ago, Anton Prinsloo said: Hi Chriull, Thanks so much for your reply! Now the price difference between the 680 and 840 is about £150... With my Ninebot one I normally do about 15 - 20km per session as here in Johannesburg we don't have bike paths and even sidewalks aren't always available making it quite difficult to do long rides... Would you say it would be worth it to spend the extra $$$ in my case? I can't find the range for the 680 battery anywhere but it should be way more than 20km... What is your total ride weight and how hilly is your terrain? These factors greatly affect range. For reference I'm 170lb fully loaded with backpack riding pancake flat terrain and my 480Wh battery gets me 22-23 miles from full to absolutely empty. For me 19-22Wh/mile is a good average range of consumption. Heavier riders will use more than this and a few riders (not many weigh much less) will use less. Going uphill will use more but you will regenerate some energy on the way back down. Most wheels are all about the same efficiency so for me the 680Wh battery would get about 30 miles and the 840Wh around 40 miles but remember that the lower the battery the slower the wheel will get through software restrictions so not all of those miles would be fun to ride. I hope this gives you a baseline to work from in your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Anton Prinsloo said: Hi Chriull, Thanks so much for your reply! Now the price difference between the 680 and 840 is about £150... With my Ninebot one I normally do about 15 - 20km per session as here in Johannesburg we don't have bike paths and even sidewalks aren't always available making it quite difficult to do long rides... Would you say it would be worth it to spend the extra $$$ in my case? I can't find the range for the 680 battery anywhere but it should be way more than 20km... If you for sure never make more as this 15-20 km rides the 680Wh battery is more than enough, as you managed this already with the ninebot. I'd assume you are not too heavy and riding on flat terrain?! With some inclines and ~90kg my e+ just made 12 km... But with a faster stronger wheel the fun and addiction normally rises and one finds nice paths uphill (aren't there some great plateaus above johannesburg?) and then one could regret ob saving the 150 pounds... And as @WARPed1701Dalready stated, the ~ last third is not really fun (like driving a ninebot e+ again - which one definitely won't like anymore after getting used to the 16s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Warped and Chruill thanks a lot for the great advice.... I think you're right that I may just end up regretting not getting the bigger battery in the long run..... I've been loving my Ninebot but the speed and acceleration was the limiting factor in where I can ride as I often steered clear of certain areas due to not being able to get out of the way of traffic.... The KS16S will allow me to explore more areas safely on our insane roads.... I get so jealous when I see videos of the areas where you guys ride... I mean we don't even have dedicated bike paths here so my riding will sometimes be cruising around a shopping mall for an hour? So thanks so much again for helping me decide and I think I'm just gonna spend the extra £150 and get the best possible setup as I plan to ride the 16S for a very long time... I've done about 850km on my Ninebot and its such an amazing machine and after reading a lot of reviews and videos I believe the 16S is better in every way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 1 hour ago, Anton Prinsloo said: after reading a lot of reviews and videos I believe the 16S is better in every way! It is! You also took the new V10/10F into consideration? There are imo no reviews of production wheels (just about to be delivered now?) - but could be a bit a nicer and newer alternative!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 In doubt, always get the biggest battery you can afford Speedyfeet now offers "Free Worldwide Shipping on Wheels!" and has the 16S coming in in a few weeks (you can email Ian at info@speedyfeet.uk and ask for details) so maybe this can reduce your import/purchase costs. Also maybe for geographic reasons, it might be best to order from Asia somewhere (maybe the Wheelies/Singapore?) for the best price. Just an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 12, 2018 Author Share Posted May 12, 2018 Well I just went to Speedyfeet and the V10F is only £50 more expensive than the KS.... ! I was under the impression its way more so yes that could be an even be better alternative to the16S.... Thank you very much I'm going to mail Ian and find out about the free shipping. Thanks so much for all the information guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 12, 2018 Share Posted May 12, 2018 The Speedyfeet prices for the V10(F) and 16S are comparably high (Ian's Gotway prices are competitive in EU and sometimes are by far the best, but these two aren't), but if there really are no extra shipping/import charges (maybe double check how it works before South African customs rip you off), this might be the cheapest option. Also ask Ian if you can get the UK VAT reimbursed (so you don't have to pay it), I think that should work. No idea how the details work there. But UK->SA might be a good (bureaucracy wise) import route for historical reasons, maybe. Also maybe (big maybe) @Jason McNeil might offer a good service from the U.S. (ewheels.com), the prices are certainly better than in EU, but if you don't have to pay VAT anyways... idk. The point is, there are a lot of options you can consider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 It's not the size of your battery but how you use it. Rather, that is to say that sometimes you only need to do quickie rides so a smaller battery can suffice perfectly fine. Why have all that extra range when you might not need every single mile? It's nice to have the battery stamina to satisfy your distance cravings, but it sounds like there aren't a whole lot of long distance cruising in your area. In any case you can't go wrong with a bigger sized battery pack. BTW if Behati and that Levine guy don't work out, be sure to pass along my contact info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Hunka Hunka Burning Love said: It's not the size of your battery but how you use it. Isn't that just what the people with small batteries say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 13, 2018 Author Share Posted May 13, 2018 Meepmeepmayer thanks for great advice on import options... I'll be sure to let you guys know which option seems best in the end. It also looks like the V10F would be better than the 16S for about the same price.... I must say it looks the part... Beautiful design apart from the trolley handle at the top... I'm planning to purchase the wheel towards the end of the year so more user reviews on the V10F would be nice before I make a final decision. I've never even seen another unicycle here in Johannesburg apart from my own so I'm basing my decisions completely on reviews..... I can't wait for Ian from Speedyfeet's review of the V10 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 End of the year! That might be a completely different market. Don't underestimate the 16S. While the motor is weak compared to the V10(F) and that's already a good criterion for your choice, I personally like the form factor better (wider stance, lower wheel, and that 2in1 handle). But maybe "end of the year" KS will have a successor to the 16S out? 18L is worth considering, too, the price is VERY good on Speedyfeet for what it offers. 50km/h 18 incher with 1020Wh and certainly really nice electronics and quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunka Hunka Burning Love Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said: Isn't that just what the people with small batteries say? Never judge a wheel by the size of its battery! Just look at how capable and fun the Mten3 is! Also, many people have travelled a lot of kilometres on their Ninebots and mastered skillful trick riding (Jonathan Tolhurst). I would lean slightly more to the left and say that wheel diameter can play a larger roll when it comes to traversing uneven terrain. 16 inch or larger, baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbwheel Posted May 13, 2018 Share Posted May 13, 2018 On 5/10/2018 at 1:55 PM, Anton Prinsloo said: My question is: Will there be a difference in torque and speed between the 680wh and 840wh battery options or will it only be the range that would be affected? Torque depends on power and should be affected. The new 840Wh use probably the more powerful cell from Panasonic which are capable of higher power. And for a 4P battery packs, it does make a difference like being able to deliver 20A, 28A, 40A (red curves) versus 20A only for the older Panasonic (blue curve). So I would go for the 840Wh considering the power aspect. Another other thing is that li-ion lose capacity with time and number of cycles, especially in hot countries. After a year or even less you may not be able to ride the distance you need if the battery limit is to close to that distance... Last point to consider : the latest wheels (84V battery voltage) seem to consume more than the older ones (67V) and all wheels are not equal so be careful when you compare people experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Jbwheel thanks so much for info. I think the consensus from most riders with deeper technical knowledge has made it clear to me to go for the biggest possible battery option regardless of the wheel I choose in the end... For me it would only make sense to spend a little bit extra ( in relation to the price of such a premium product ) to get the best possible performance for the lifetime of the wheel which could be thousands of kilometers... I think the extra £150 would be long forgotten in the knowledge that I'm riding the best possible version of the wheel instead of always wondering if the bigger battery could have improved the power and performance.... Great forum, great people sharing invaluable information! Thanks guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ir_fuel Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Nobody ever complained about the fact that they should have bought the version with the smaller battery ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anton Prinsloo Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 True brother!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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