New to the group

[pst]

Hey all,

Somehow I totally missed this forum until pretty recently and figured I should sign up instead of just lurking suspiciously.  I know in some other places "welcome posts" are customary... hope it's no big intrusion to post one here!  Looks like the most applicable forum here is "general discussion."  If the warning at the bottom of the page is any indication, I'm sure moderators will help place this in the proper location, if I have that wrong.

As you can tell from the profile, I'm in the greater Detroit area... my understanding is that EUCs are still "not quite legal" in Michigan, although I'm hopeful that with the recent passing of legislation permitting motor-assisted bikes (up to 1hp / 750w), hopefully we are on the right path.  I've seen a few people around town with hoverboards and the like, so I'm hoping with something like a Ninebot One, with limited power and limited speed, that the powers that be won't hassle you.  But I'd be interested to meet more folks in the general Ann Arbor - Brighton - Sterling Heights - Downtown area with interest or experience.

I'm also interested in EUCs from a technical point of view, being somewhat of a hardware hacker and embedded programmer... so if anyone has any good technical stories or even broken units or similar "junk," please drop me a note!

Best wishes for fun and safety!

[WARPed1701D]

Welcome aboard! 

[Marty Backe]

Welcome aboard. There is an amazing amount of technical information buried in this Forum

Very few places in the US have outlawed EUCs. Just a few cities and towns. I suspect that you have no worries in Michigan as a whole.

[dbfrese]

Welcome,  post! How long have you been riding and how'd you get started? 

[The Fat Unicyclist]

On ‎14‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 3:28 PM, dbfrese said:

Welcome,  post! How long have you been riding and how'd you get started? 

And what wheel(s) do you have? 

[Esash]

On 2/13/2018 at 8:49 PM, pst said:

I've seen a few people around town with hoverboards and the like, so I'm hoping with something like a Ninebot One, with limited power and limited speed, that the powers that be won't hassle you.  But I'd be interested to meet more folks in the general Ann Arbor - Brighton - Sterling Heights - Downtown area with interest or experience.

 

If I were you I'd get a better first wheel, if you can afford it. Cops aren't EUC experts, and they all look the same to a cop. Might as well have one that you won't outgrow in two weeks. 

I bought a Gotway MCM3 a few weeks ago, and I already regret not having waited and saved another 100-200 dollars. Within a week of buying it, several far superior (used) wheels went on sale here on the forum by fellow members, for about the same price or slightly more than the $500 I paid for my wheel.

Check the "For Sale Second Hand" section here on the forum, and keep an eye out. As spring approaches, the wheel companies are starting to release their new models, and fellow members here are selling their old wheels as they get the new ones. So for perhaps $700 you might get a used wheel that would normally go for $1500 new, and it will be way way way superior to a Ninebot, and probably easier to learn to ride on too. Wish I had done the same.

This guy here is in Michigan I believe, not sure if it's Ann Arbor or Lansing or something, watch this vid and he probably mentions where he is.

 

[Esash]

At the same time I distinctly remember how desperate I was to buy my first wheel. I was obsessed and was even having dreams about riding an EUC, like every night. And I think I did get a very decent wheel in the MCM3.

So I totally understand if you happen to be really hungry for that Ninebot One. But don't be surprised if you come across a far superior used wheel for about the same price, or within 100-200 dollars of what you paid for the Ninebot One.

 

[Esash]

I'll share a few web links from my weeks of research, that may be of use for you or somebody else:

Where you'll likely find the best deal if you check it every day, here in this forum's "For Sale" section:

http://forum.electricunicycle.org/forum/24-private-sales-secondhand/

EWheels, perhaps the most often cited web site when people here announce they have purchased a new wheel. The Kingsong 14D is $770,  bigger and/or better wheels run more. EWheels seems to have a great reputation. Also check out the Buyer's Guide page for comparisons.

https://www.ewheels.com/shop/

I weigh 200 lbs, and I can already tell my MCM3 with its 800 watt motor isn't ideal power. If you happen to be pushing 200 lbs or higher, the 500 watt motor of the Ninebot One might really disappoint you when tackling hills or wanting to go more than 12 mph.

I bought my Gotway MCM3 from Tec-Toys, whose proprietor, like the EWheels proprietor, are regular commenters here on the forum. My order arrived promptly and in brand new condition, so I can vouch for them.

The cheapest version of the MCM3 that Tec-Toys sells is only $399, which is the same or not much higher than you might pay for a Ninebot One. But remember, the MCM3 has an 800 watt motor, not 500 watts, so it has a much higher top speed 18-19 mph vs 12 mph, and can tackle much steeper hills, accelerate faster, and carry a larger rider.

https://tec-toyz.com/products/gotway-mcm3-high-speed-version?variant=15657862659

Think of the MCM3 as roughly equivalent performance as the KS-14D, but with less style points, head lights, handle, or speakers. And Tec-Toys sells a bigger, 680wh battery version of the MCM3, which is a much bigger battery than the 420wh of the KS-14D, while still being 70-100 dollars cheaper at $649 plus $50 shipping!

Another US website worth mentioning is GotwayUSA  https://gotwayamerica.com/collections/mcm4/products/mcm4-680

They sell the Gotway MCM4 with that big 680 wh battery for just $650. The MCM4 is a much better looking, slightly faster version of the MCM3, with lights, USB outlet, and walking handle, which is very convenient.

But GotwayAmerica also sells bigger, better wheels, and you can buy small-battery versions of some top level wheels for great prices, like the Tesla 680 wh for $999. 

But all that being said, I still think the best deals are used wheels that pop up for sale regularly here on the forum. 

And having said all THAT, I'm sure you'd still have a great time on a Ninebot One.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pst]

Thanks for the replies!

4 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

There is an amazing amount of technical information buried in this Forum

Yes, only scratched the surface so far of what the site has to offer... at least the weather is ideal for being indoors right now!

As to the legal status, I'm sure that's another whole topic (literally!).  I hope "no worries" is accurate.  Historically, Michigan has been pretty strict about "a thing you ride, with a motor" being a motor vehicle, and needing to be classed and insured as a motorcycle, autocycle, moped, etc.  Enforcement may not be strict as I've never heard of people getting cited.  But... if you were ever involved in an accident (even tangentially), I suspect they could really throw the book at you, at their discretion.

As to how I got started, I was researching e-bike builds and came across a future transportation ideas video which included not only bike shares but also an "EUC share" at public transit hubs.  Not sure about that in practice but a neat concept.  Anyway, my interest reached critical mass, I picked up a used wheel because I don't have the heart to wreck shiny new equipment and I knew I'd be enjoying the magnetic effect of the pavement at least a few times.  Many wiki-trails and youtube videos later, here I am!

As far as hands-on (feet-on?) experience, just a matter of a few months.  My "theoretical knowledge" is a bit better due to my involvement with e-bikes and drones.

[pst]

6 hours ago, Scouts Honor said:

If I were you I'd get a better first wheel, if you can afford it. Cops aren't EUC experts, and they all look the same to a cop. Might as well have one that you won't outgrow in two weeks. [...]

But all that being said, I still think the best deals are used wheels that pop up for sale regularly here on the forum. 

Thanks for all the great information.  Funny you say this, as the classifieds section here is what drew me into the site, specifically the Gotway that sold a couple days ago.  I always like to buy used when I can.

Much like I would prefer a Ferrari over a Fiesta, I'm sure something in the $1000 class will be more enjoyable than something in the $200 (used) class.  But similarly I would feel bad about wrecking the Ferrari due to my ignorance.   I figured (and so far it's on track I think) that once I find I'm serious enough to stick with it rather than it just being a phase, I can invest in something in the 800W+ class, and still repurpose the Ninebot for friends, imperfect days, learning to do stupid human tricks, getting it signed by drunk celebrities... who knows.  Or sell it to the next newbie.

Plus the looming legality issue does weigh on me slightly and I don't want to invest several hundred dollars on something that turns out to only be decorative.

But we'll see how the spring goes!

[Marty Backe]

5 hours ago, pst said:

Thanks for all the great information.  Funny you say this, as the classifieds section here is what drew me into the site, specifically the Gotway that sold a couple days ago.  I always like to buy used when I can.

Much like I would prefer a Ferrari over a Fiesta, I'm sure something in the $1000 class will be more enjoyable than something in the $200 (used) class.  But similarly I would feel bad about wrecking the Ferrari due to my ignorance.   I figured (and so far it's on track I think) that once I find I'm serious enough to stick with it rather than it just being a phase, I can invest in something in the 800W+ class, and still repurpose the Ninebot for friends, imperfect days, learning to do stupid human tricks, getting it signed by drunk celebrities... who knows.  Or sell it to the next newbie.

Plus the looming legality issue does weigh on me slightly and I don't want to invest several hundred dollars on something that turns out to only be decorative.

But we'll see how the spring goes!

Electric skateboards have a motor. Are they outlawed in Michigan? Are Segway's outlawed? Based on the rarity of Police issues reported in the United States I would be shocked if you have any issues.

[outcast00096]

I've had trouble with cops on my 18s. They like to circle the block when I ride it. If I ride anything else then they leave me alone. I've been stopped once but he was friendly to me when he realized that I wasn't doing anything wrong. He said, "We're looking for someone who looks like you." I'm asian so I'm not sure if that was racist or a cute way to say, "oops, we screwed up." Cuz' obviously, all asians look alike and all can ride unicycles. I rode past the police department that time. The other time I was riding home on Thanksgiving in the bike lane and a cop couldn't stop where I was so he stopped two blocked up after a stop light and had his lights flashing. I actually needed to turn about a street or two down. He gave up trying to wait for me and drove off while I was waiting at the cross walk sign to go across perpendicular to where he was waiting. He could have easily come and talked to me if he wanted to though. It wasn't like I was going faster than his car was able to go. Most of the time, I get circled by cops who obviously drive around the block multiple times to watch me. Usually, I'm stopped at a light waiting to cross and I"ll see a cop pass by 3 or 4 times.

[dmethvin]

I did some searching in Michigan law. I am not a lawyer, though.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jjjbzcwomrj2x2m0mxbb2poa))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-13c 

Defines EPAMD, basically a Segway, like most other states. The "two non-tandem wheels" technically rules out an EUC but you can often explain that an EUC is like a Segway with one wheel.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jjjbzcwomrj2x2m0mxbb2poa))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-33-amended

Specifically says an EPAMD is not a "motor vehicle".

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(jjjbzcwomrj2x2m0mxbb2poa))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-625

Says that operating a vehicle in a place where motor vehicles go (including parking lots) is DUI. Stay on the sidewalk if you're drunk on an EUC! Michigan has prosecuted people on the road with mobility scooters for DUI.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(kfrfnopmd0gh5ypu4vmkpepe))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-660

This is most of the important info. You can use the sidewalk but be nice to pedestrians. Use bike paths/lanes if they exist. Ride to the right with the traffic flow, don't go over 15mph, don't ride on streets with speed limits over 25mph. You can't filter between traffic (lane splitting). Local areas can implement further restrictions.

http://www.mackinacislandnews.com/news/2008-08-30/front_page/011.html

I wouldn't try riding on Mackinac Island.

[pst]

Ah, thanks for the research!  Of course, the law still makes comments about "not carrying a package that prevents having both hands on the handlebars" and how the wheels should have side reflectors and so forth... but that knowledge makes me feel much better.  At least an argument can be made.  I think it also comes down to not being conspicuous or doing dumb things.  For example, there is one semi-rural road near me with a 40mph speed limit.  It has wide gravel medians, but no sidewalks.  So am I just SOL because the law says you can't "operate on roads with speed limit over 25 MPH"?  Is riding X feet off the pavement considered "on the roadway"?  I doubt I'd be hassled but there's always that one guy who wants to make a statement.

Maybe I need to signal-boost that message a bit, I think many people familiar with e-bikes (including myself) are reading the motor vehicle laws but not reading the exemptions, which I see have been amended a lot in the last few years.

Anyway, at least it's good to have that extra information so thanks again!!

7 hours ago, outcast00096 said:

Cuz' obviously, all asians look alike and all can ride unicycles.

I feel bad for laughing at this... I am truly sorry for your inconvenience but appreciate your sense of humor.

 

21 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said:

And what wheel(s) do you have? 

Oops, forgot this one.  So far, just the Ninebot.

[Master Blaster]

8 hours ago, outcast00096 said:

He said, "We're looking for someone who looks like you." I'm asian so I'm not sure if that was racist or a cute way to say, "oops, we screwed up." Cuz' obviously, all asians look alike and all can ride unicycles.

Outcast, you’re cracking me up man!!