RayRay Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 A few months ago... I decided to upgrade my crappy Walmart bike to an entry level eBike, so I took a chance and spent $300 on a crowdfunded kit. (Not yet manufactured.) ...Now, I have the opportunity to double the range (2 x 180Wh battery) at the early-bird discount price ($50). Details: According to Swytch, kit uses 3.6V 2500mAh 18650 batteries (generic?) Claimed weight of 2.1Kg for 180Wh pack and only 3kg for (double) 360Wh pack. (How?) The pack is just a metal box with a charging port that gets stored in the bag up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fat Unicyclist Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Two thoughts on that... Their weight includes the casing, or The larger pack includes a higher capacity battery - When I Googled "18650 battery" the results showed them as being 3400mAh . And, since you started me down this rabbit hole, I had a quick look at a local NZ company http://www.yikebike.com - which actually got me onto EUC instead (because they weren't quite good enough - and comparing your $299 to their $4-7K product, you aren't doing too badly (though theirs does fold up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Yes, I stumbled upon EUC's while researching various folding ebike and e-scooter options myself. (I might have seen the Yikebike. There are so many options these days...) 19 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: Their weight includes the casing, or Yes, I suppose the case may account for the weight of the larger battery pack being a lot less than double the weight of the smaller pack. (If one were half empty.) 19 hours ago, The Fat Unicyclist said: The larger pack includes a higher capacity battery - When I Googled "18650 battery" the results showed them as being 3400mAh . I believe there are some good Panasonic batteries at 3400mAh, but why wouldn't they advertise that they were using 'better' batteries in the long-range pack? (It seems equally likely that they are using good Samsung or LG batteries at 2500mAh and something cheaper/generic for the higher capacity... I just dunno.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I'm very interested in eBikes as well. I have checked out both mild and high-performance eBikes locally ($1200 to +$3500 spread), and I'm just waiting it out for their prices to drop. Under 50cc gas scooters all cost between 500-1000 dollars brand-new, with their electric counterparts starting at over $1000, so that might be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 12 hours ago, LanghamP said: I have checked out both mild and high-performance eBikes locally ($1200 to +$3500 spread), and I'm just waiting it out for their prices to drop. They do get awfully expensive, that's why I decided to get (back) into ebikes with a fairly inexpensive, entry-level kit. However, the cost of batteries is a big limiting factor. That's why I'm wondering if I shouldn't upgrade to a 360Wh pack (from 180Wh). These batteries are fairly similar to the ones we use for euc's. If they're any good at all, I'd be getting a very good price for them... 12 hours ago, LanghamP said: Under 50cc gas scooters all cost between 500-1000 dollars brand-new, with their electric counterparts starting at over $1000, so that might be viable. Gas scooters seemed like a better value compared to their electric counterparts. In the end, I went for an over 50cc model. (Less $$$ for euc's ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 I need to decide whether or not to spend an extra $50 to double battery pack from 180Wh to 360Wh soon. (Have some last minute details to add...) After a little investigating, I've determined the Swytch battery is most likely a cheaper version of the 'Panda Pak' sold by pandaebikes.com. (Same owner.) However, since the Swytch description specifies 2500mAh 18650's, my guess is these are DLG (Shanghai) cells (Panda uses in their Hailong Packs). I would be more tempted by the 2600mAh Samsung 26F 10S5P setup they normally use, but not sure about these 'generic' Chinese cells. (The DLG 2500mAh 10S4P setup is easier to split in half and sell very cheap.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 On 1/22/2018 at 8:38 PM, RayRay said: They do get awfully expensive, that's why I decided to get (back) into ebikes with a fairly inexpensive, entry-level kit. However, the cost of batteries is a big limiting factor. That's why I'm wondering if I shouldn't upgrade to a 360Wh pack (from 180Wh). These batteries are fairly similar to the ones we use for euc's. If they're any good at all, I'd be getting a very good price for them... Gas scooters seemed like a better value compared to their electric counterparts. In the end, I went for an over 50cc model. (Less $$$ for euc's ...) How do you like the scooter, if you have gotten it yet? There are several places near me that sell scooters, ATV's, and small motorcycles for very low prices. Have you seen the Hilltopper conversion kit for $500? You swap out your front wheel with the electric one, attach the battery pack and throttle, and it's supposed to only take 10 minutes. https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Bike-Kit-Lithium-Included/dp/B00K7IA5JG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 35 minutes ago, steve454 said: Have you seen the Hilltopper conversion kit for $500? You swap out your front wheel with the electric one, attach the battery pack and throttle, and it's supposed to only take 10 minutes. The myriad of ebike options available on Amazon led me to pursue another route... Or rather, I thought if I were going to take a chance on a kit again, I might as well take advantage of one of the (over)-hyped new products I kept reading about on e-gadget websites. Before I knew it, I was (suckered?) into a crowdfunded kit that's very similar to the Hilltopper, but with a few added perks (and an early-backer discount). However, I am also aware that other recent crowdfunded kits (e.g. Copenhagen, FlyKly, and UrbanX) have suffered serious delays or have been disappointments. I can be a risk taker on occasion, but for my primary form of transportation, I over-compensated (and over-spent) on a reliable brand name moto... (Begins w/Y ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 1 minute ago, RayRay said: The myriad of ebike options available on Amazon led me to pursue another route... Or rather, I thought if I were going to take a chance on a kit again, I might as well take advantage of one of the (over)-hyped new products I kept reading about on e-gadget websites. Before I knew it, I was (suckered?) into a crowdfunded kit that's very similar to the Hilltopper, but with a few added perks (and an early-backer discount). However, I am also aware that other recent crowdfunded kits (e.g. Copenhagen, FlyKly, and UrbanX) have suffered serious delays or have been disappointments. I can be a risk taker on occasion, but for my primary form of transportation, I over-compensated (and over-spent) on a reliable brand name moto... (Begins w/Y ) Yamaha? Which one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 27, 2018 Author Share Posted January 27, 2018 15 minutes ago, steve454 said: Yamaha? Which one? Too easy a hint. I was comparing Yamaha and (excellent value) Kymco scooters. In the end, I figured I couldn't go wrong with Yamaha and decided to choose between Zuma or Smax. (Forgive me if I made the wrong choice, but I bought a Zuma and I'm quite happy with it.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve454 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 13 minutes ago, RayRay said: Too easy a hint. I was comparing Yamaha and (excellent value) Kymco scooters. In the end, I figured I couldn't go wrong with Yamaha and decided to choose between Zuma or Smax. (Forgive me if I made the wrong choice, but I bought a Zuma and I'm quite happy with it.) Just googled it, looks sweet! Yamaha quality is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 My thoughts are always get the biggest battery you can. I've been waiting for a decent ebike with a decent battery at a decent price (relatively speaking). The segway mini-pro is not fast enough for most commuting. I've not mastered the EUC yet, the scooter just has not gelled yet. So today i put 17km on my first e-bike. A 680Wh battery pack, 500W motor, model from DJ-bikes. Replacement batteries are $400. The batteries have very good certifications so they can be shipped more easily, and even attached to the bike legally. The bike was $1400 which currently is reasonable for the package they have There is a bit of a learning curve, as the e-bikes motor-assist is not as fine-tunely controlable like a segway or euc. They like to have that initial power boost to get you upto speed. Anyway, never cheep on the battery, but never believe the specs of the battery either unless verified at the individual cell level, and at the pack level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 28, 2018 Author Share Posted January 28, 2018 20 minutes ago, FreeRide said: never cheep on the battery, but never believe the specs of the battery either You make a valid point. I would not expect to get the advertised range (except in low pedal assist/best case scenario). It's worth a little extra to get 'decent' range (for this entry level kit). 21 minutes ago, FreeRide said: e-bikes motor-assist is not as fine-tunely controlable like a segway or euc. They like to have that initial power boost to get you upto speed There are several upgrades available (motor, batteries, etc.) but I don't intend on adding a throttle feature; (just want a little assist). However, I may get the controller upgrade to be able to fine tune the assist a bit (and just-in-case I want to upgrade the motor later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KalSeth Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I love my Yamaha scooter too! Picked up the XSR900 model! The ebike I am not so sure on. Maybe you can sell the kit on. After riding euc it will be hard to get on bike. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanghamP Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 My fundamental block to getting an eBike is simply one of cost. EUCs are directly comparable with normal bicycles because both cost about the same while having about the same average speed. eBikes are on a whole different level, both in performance and in cost, but that seems about right when you add up the cost of both bicycle and an EUC. I've thought of various ways in which an EUC could be stuck onto the back of a bicycle, say as a bike and EUC convertible. Say you buy a KS18. For an extra $500-$1000 KS could build a normal bike whereby the rear could be swapped out. You would want the choice of convertible as the bike should still be riddeable even if your KS18 is unavailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 28, 2018 Share Posted January 28, 2018 I have recently bought two MATE eBikes via the Indiegogo start up. As I live near the top of a very steep hill I actually bought the American 350W motor 20mph versions rather than the European legal 250W 15mph versions. They are good eBikes and great fun but even with the illegal in the UK bigger motor they tend to overheat and cut out coming up the hill, despite me pedalling furiously. All my Gotways and my KS can take me up the same hill faster and without overheating and cutting out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayRay Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Gimlet said: I have recently bought two MATE eBikes via the Indiegogo start up. As I live near the top of a very steep hill I actually bought the American 350W motor 20mph versions rather than the European legal 250W 15mph versions. They are good eBikes and great fun but even with the illegal in the UK bigger motor they tend to overheat and cut out coming up the hill, despite me pedalling furiously. All my Gotways and my KS can take me up the same hill faster and without overheating and cutting out. I've definitely been following the MATE. The coolest eBike EVER(?) I dunno... I was surprised by how much MATE overshot their funding goal. (The design seemed fairly common and the battery placement not unique.) However, a successful crowdfunding campaign may have been to their disadvantage; (I heard they struggled to deliver in a timely fashion). Another crowdfunding cautionary tale... Still, I considered the MATE, but then I became obsessed with electric unicycles as a last-mile-solution. eBikes are more familiar to people, but once you add a certain amount of power they become something else (mopeds). It takes a lot of energy to cycle uphill AND overcome all of that 'extra' weight. (But what's the solution... More POWER!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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