First EUC: Single or dual wheel?

[chopsywa]

Hi All

I am new here and so far have no EUC. The craze doesn't seem to have taken hold in Australia, possibly due to nanny laws, but I am keen. I was looking to buy a Ninebot MiniPro to get around an island off the coast of Perth called Rottnest where I spend most of my summer weekends. I soon was seduced into the thought of getting a unicycle instead. The main reasons are :-

1. Portability. I can carry it into the pub without the bouncers telling me it is not allowed.

2. I can carry stuff while riding.

3. It is less inclined to attract unwanted attention (although it is going to attract some attention for sure).

4. It looks like the reward for some learning is a lot more fun.

Anyway after watching many Youtube videos and reading reviews, I am thinking I should buy a Inmotion V3 dual wheel. It seems to be a great "non slalom" practical commuter and easier to learn. I reckon I have more chance of getting my wife interested. If I do and we are both proficient, I can then buy something like a Ninebot E and she can keep the dual wheel. A win win all round.

I am looking for suggestions on whether this is a good idea from you lot where I bet there is a huge amount of collective experience.

Love to hear any input and I am really quite excited about getting into this "sport".

 

Cheers

Mark

[The Fat Unicyclist]

Hi Mark. 

A twin wheel is much easier to learn, but can be harder to handle on un-level terrain (where only one wheel "reaches" the ground).

Would you only ever want to ride on level terrain? 

[Keith]

5 hours ago, chopsywa said:

I reckon I have more chance of getting my wife interested. If I do and we are both proficient, I can then buy something like a Ninebot E and she can keep the dual wheel. A win win all round.

That would (IMHO) be the single most compelling reason to buy a dual wheel. My wife would not even consider trying to ride my KS-14, but loves Segways and always tries to book a trip on one when we are on holiday. I'm still toying with a v3, or possibly the NB mini pro (but it is so slow!) for my wife.

As for yourself, as @The Fat Unicyclist has said,unless you are only going to use it on surfaced and ideally flat roads and pavement you will very soon outgrow a dual wheel as they do not handle rough surfaces at all well (and that would include poorly maintained sidewalks) so most find them limiting quite quickly. Unless you are certain your wife will be likely to use it You would be better of going straight to a single wheel.

There are several suppliers in Australia, including the quite active @Milbay http://www.milbay.com.au Although they do insist on renaming what are KingSong and (I think) Airwheel models which can make comparison confusing.

I do not know how far you intend riding, but work on half the stated range as they are very optimistic, you might find the NBE a bit limiting compared with KingSong, Gotway or the single wheel InMotion EUC's?

[MarkoMarjamaa]

How about you give you wife 1-2 hour course to ride one-wheeler? I learned basic riding in 4 and taught it in 1 hour.

If she can ride a bike, she can ride one-wheeler EUC. Make a bet with her about learning.

 

[Keith]

3 minutes ago, MarkoMarjamaa said:

If she can ride a bike, she can ride one-wheeler EUC. Make a bet with her about learning.

You know that; I know that; try telling my wife, or most other people's wives that. She thinks I've got a severely bad case of mid-life crisis!

As for a course, I've failed to even find her a trial lesson on a dual wheel!

[chopsywa]

Thanks for the responses guys. I asked her tonight and it is pretty obvious that she is not interested in learning. She is a bit grumpy that I am no longer looking at the Ninebot Mini Pro. I prefer the challenge of something that is not so easy and I reckon it is going to be easier to carry the unicycle into a pub than a miniature Segway.

So anyway, single wheel it is. @Keith, I did check out the Milway site. They don't have much and it looks to be expensive. They have two brands and one is basically no longer sold. Not sure why they don't just remove it off the site. The other brand is Esway. I was quite impressed with store at http://www.electricunicycleonline.com. They don't have some brands I am seeing on here, but they have Ninebot and Inmotion which both look to be OK and seem to have good Youtube reviews. I only want to spend about AU$900 and $200 of that will be taken up by freight. If it is anything like past hobbies such as windsurfing and waterskiing, the first thing you buy, no matter how well researched, is usually passe within a couple of months. My primary objective at the moment is for a bit of fun, going down to the shops when I am in too much of a hurry to walk, but it is ridiculous to start up a cold car for the journey and for buzzing around the aforementioned holiday isle.

I thought it was going to be a relatively easy choice, but the few (well meaning) posts above have already got me confused. Single wheel is in, but now I am second guessing myself on the brand. I don't want to buy some junk Chinese thing that can't be fixed and I would imagine that the better units have far superior electronics and self balancing algorithms. 

I was gravitating toward the Ninebot due to its heritage and it is a relatively cheap 230W/h unit at AU$697. The only comparable specs I can see on electricunicycleonline is the IPS T260+ (260W/h) for A$739.

I guess the other question is when learning, is any particular brand model simply too hard/advanced to learn on?  

[Keith]

16 hours ago, chopsywa said:

I would imagine that the better units have far superior electronics and self balancing algorithms. 

I guess the other question is when learning, is any particular brand model simply too hard/advanced to learn on?  

Whilst the feel of different wheels can be quite different the self balancing algorithms are not, in themselves, usually an issue. The main issues to consider are:

• Power - anything less than 500W sustained really isn't enough for safety, more if you are much over (say) 180lb
• Battery - obviously good quality cells but also anything less than two sets of cells in parallel really cannot deliver the current safely that means the capacity needs to be over 200Wh as anything less is bound to be a single set of 15 or 16 cells. On this forum 340Wh is considered a good minimum in terms of power and range. To put some numbers to that, Much over 10miles at an average 10MPH, max 15MPH, and the power of my 340Wh wheel is down enough to be a not much fun, range at my around 170lb is about 15 miles total.
• BMS - Battery Management System. Some, including some well known brands, have BMS apparently designed for ebikes so they protect the battery at the expense of the rider, I.e. they can suddenly, and without warning, shut down. Check out the "problems with BMS" thread in Featured Posts and also look for the thread on EUCs without BMS cut offs
• Speed - whilst there is a fair number of Kamikaze pilots on this forum wanting to go 35kph plus, in reality most find 25-30kph is about the max before the desire for self preservation kicks in. However there is a fairly big number of forum members who find the inability to be able to do at least 25kph very limiting. Of course the more built up the area you intend to ride in the slower you are likely to want to go, but not being able to comfortably be able to do at least 25kph (15MPH) I.e.without constant beeping or tilt back is a fairly common complaint on this forum. 

As to which wheels are best to learn on? I think wheel size is more of an issue than brand, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain of a particular brand being harder/easier to learn on than another. Certainly people going from one brand to another will find things they like much better or hate when comparing wheels but a beginner will not notice what are quite subtle differences (softer or firmer peddles, tighter turning circles or less/more easily grounded peddles, better/ worst acceleration etc, etc. 

Even regarding wheel size, you should pick what suits your application, not learning, as it won't make a huge difference in learning time.

• 14" wheels are great for town, paved surfaces, but most of all portability if needing to carry or take on public transport. However they are still not bad on reasonable off road there are plenty of videos of Inmotion, KingSong, etc wheels off road.
• 16" wheels are still great in town and better off road, probably a bit easier to learn on as a bit less skittish. Generally a good alround compromise.
• 18" wheels are serious off road wheels not ideal in town, but still usable ok if you don't need to carry them, some argue they are easier to learn on as they are stable, but they are also heavy so more of a handful of you do lose control I would guess - I've not yet had a chance to try one ;-( 

PS: If you haven't done it already, do a search in this forum on "Australia", that will find you the users and wheels they are using and problems they have had buying them etc, you may be able to PM them for further advice.

 

[Jurgen]

If you are considering the IPS 260+ please take a look at my review of the T680+(same model with 2x Japanese 340Wh batt; the 260 type used to be with chinese batt), see link below. This should give you a good idea on the pros and cons.

Whatever brand you buy, go for the biggest battery you can afford (safety, range, performance), and wear full safety gear.

 

[HEC]

I can only 100% concur with everything what @Keith said in his detailed post. I'd add - aim for the latest generations of the wheel. The progress goes ahead fast in EUC world and wheels which were great a year or two ago are being quickly surpassed by newcomers to the filed. One of the most noticeable being Inmotion. If you'd be OK with 14" wheel the V5F+ is currently a top choice readily available and if you'd prefer 16" version V8 is about to being shipped to customers this month. All and all there is no "perfect" wheel which would fit everyone or at least a majority of the riders so you'll need to set your priorities and select wheel matching most of your requirements. In regards of where to order from - if you'd be located in Europe or US / Canada I'd say check @Jason McNeil's web shops first (ewheels.com for NA version or wheelgo.com for EU version) as he provides a top notch customer service and many forum members here can vouch for him. Other option is to purchase wheel from for example Aliexpress with fairly favourable prices where most of the sellers actually pay for shipping and import taxes as well however downside being the eventual support if needed. Finally direct purchase from manufacturers is a possibility as well however always check the shipping cost as well as tax and import duties.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

I may be slightly biased (because I love mine), but the IPS191 (340) Lhotz may be worth your consideration... It is a 16" wheel, but with a fatter (2.5") tyre, which means it is very stable and ideal for learning on - but you won't out-grow it too fast.

I load mine right up to the 120kg limit (possibly more if I pack a big lunch), and I push the wheel when I ride - But it takes it all and copes well.

I ride on sealed surfaces, and also off-road (mud and deep gravel) and the wheel just loves it - so if you think you might want to diversify your riding in the future, it may be worth a look. It would be great if the battery was larger, but even as it is I can get a good 20+km to a charge (fully loaded) if I don't hammer it too much.

[chopsywa]

Once again thanks for the extremely generous support.

I am the world's worst procrastinator/evaluator. If I could walk into a shop and see one, I would have it by now. Always such a big risk to buy something based on reviews. However, there is no option here in Perth. The only reseller is twice the price of buying from overseas. I think purely because of my budget I am going to make the safe choice and get the Ninebot One E. I would love to get the IPS Lhotz with 30Km/h speed and 20km (real) range. The reality is unless I get hooked, I am going to be doing maybe 10Km in a day, so should be good with the cheaper unit.

One last question. Anyone care to see this unit http://wheel-it.com.au/ and see if it is a rebadged version of something good?

It is a bit slow (probably to conform to our nanny laws), but it looks to have a good battery and it is sold here in Australia.

[The Fat Unicyclist]

58 minutes ago, chopsywa said:

One last question. Anyone care to see this unit http://wheel-it.com.au/ and see if it is a rebadged version of something good?

So all I see on that site is some headings and a lot of blank space...

[HEC]

3 hours ago, chopsywa said:

One last question. Anyone care to see this unit http://wheel-it.com.au/ and see if it is a rebadged version of something good?

It is a bit slow (probably to conform to our nanny laws), but it looks to have a good battery and it is sold here in Australia.

Looks like re-branded IPS wheel: https://www.wheelgo.com/product/new-ips-111-white/ It's fairly solid wheel although a bit old generation.

Also Ninebot One E is way too "old"  and I'd hesitate to get it as a new wheel now so unless you can get used one for a good price you might reconsider. And - believe me - while you think that range of 10 - 15 Km and speed below 20 Km/h is sufficient you'll outgrow such wheel so fast you'll be sorry for not getting one with better specs right away. Almost anyone here would say you the same ...

 

[chopsywa]

And now I just found a place in Australia selling the Gotway MCM V3 260W/h 27km/h for $A749.

This is only 14", so maybe I am biting off more than I can chew, but from my limited cruising around here, the Gotway seems to be a bit of a fave.

[chopsywa]

OK. Once again thanks for the advice everyone. Based on this, I have just ordered a Gotway MCM 3 with 260W/h battery for A$699 landed.

I am quite excited now.

[US69]

1 hour ago, chopsywa said:

OK. Once again thanks for the advice everyone. Based on this, I have just ordered a Gotway MCM 3 with 260W/h battery for A$699 landed.

I am quite excited now.

In General a good choice!

Fast, solid and well reputated brand and wheel! The only downside can be the "low" Batterieof 260wh...which is hard/expensive to upgrade!

Congrats!

[chopsywa]

Thanks KS. I have received it now. Very sore (bruised) calf muscles, but I am on the second charge now and I am riding around my neighbourhood up and down hills. U turns are tricky but normal going around corners, weaving and braking all feel pretty good. I can see why people like it so much. Once you are crusing it is like you are flying just above the ground. It is quite an exhilarating sensation.

I am not too worried about the small battery. I have found that with everything you take on, no matter how much you research, you end up wanting to upgrade from your first device. The price was right for this wheel and where I intend to use it most is 4km round trip, so if I can do two trips between charges, that is perfect. I am sure I will end up wanting more though.  

[dalewalker]

On 09/09/2016 at 5:40 AM, Keith said:

Whilst the feel of different wheels can be quite different the self balancing algorithms are not, in themselves, usually an issue. The main issues to consider are:

• Power - anything less than 500W sustained really isn't enough for safety, more if you are much over (say) 180lb
• Battery - obviously good quality cells but also anything less than two sets of cells in parallel really cannot deliver the current safely that means the capacity needs to be over 200Wh as anything less is bound to be a single set of 15 or 16 cells. On this forum 340Wh is considered a good minimum in terms of power and range. To put some numbers to that, Much over 10miles at an average 10MPH, max 15MPH, and the power of my 340Wh wheel is down enough to be a not much fun, range at my around 170lb is about 15 miles total.
• BMS - Battery Management System. Some, including some well known brands, have BMS apparently designed for ebikes so they protect the battery at the expense of the rider, I.e. they can suddenly, and without warning, shut down. Check out the "problems with BMS" thread in Featured Posts and also look for the thread on EUCs without BMS cut offs
• Speed - whilst there is a fair number of Kamikaze pilots on this forum wanting to go 35kph plus, in reality most find 25-30kph is about the max before the desire for self preservation kicks in. However there is a fairly big number of forum members who find the inability to be able to do at least 25kph very limiting. Of course the more built up the area you intend to ride in the slower you are likely to want to go, but not being able to comfortably be able to do at least 25kph (15MPH) I.e.without constant beeping or tilt back is a fairly common complaint on this forum. 

As to which wheels are best to learn on? I think wheel size is more of an issue than brand, I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain of a particular brand being harder/easier to learn on than another. Certainly people going from one brand to another will find things they like much better or hate when comparing wheels but a beginner will not notice what are quite subtle differences (softer or firmer peddles, tighter turning circles or less/more easily grounded peddles, better/ worst acceleration etc, etc. 

Even regarding wheel size, you should pick what suits your application, not learning, as it won't make a huge difference in learning time.

• 14" wheels are great for town, paved surfaces, but most of all portability if needing to carry or take on public transport. However they are still not bad on reasonable off road there are plenty of videos of Inmotion, KingSong, etc wheels off road.
• 16" wheels are still great in town and better off road, probably a bit easier to learn on as a bit less skittish. Generally a good alround compromise.
• 18" wheels are serious off road wheels not ideal in town, but still usable ok if you don't need to carry them, some argue they are easier to learn on as they are stable, but they are also heavy so more of a handful of you do lose control I would guess - I've not yet had a chance to try one ;-( 

PS: If you haven't done it already, do a search in this forum on "Australia", that will find you the users and wheels they are using and problems they have had buying them etc, you may be able to PM them for further advice.

 

Where are you from Keith? You seem to know a fair bit about euc's :-) 

[Keith]

2 hours ago, dalewalker said:

Where are you from Keith? You seem to know a fair bit about euc's :-) 

Ermmmmm.......... Surrey, UK, like it says against my name!

I learned everything I know from @Jason McNeil ?