EHI rich people , read here , you are losing the way

[LEO_LEO]

 

I'm sick of seeing euc 1000 EUR/$ narrated as good products , even I understand these are good , 
but a vehicle of this kind , to be innovative , should be a good price to meet at all , an electric bike costs less , 
surely you can not bring it to the office , but it is also true that he has a better usability . 
I believe that if this forum is intended as a pioneer site , should engage more in the search for good products at low cost to everyone
AUGH  

[dmethvin]

That is not the way most emerging products work in the technology field. The first ones tend to be expensive because they are being produced in small quantities and the manufacturers are still trying to work out the technical details. As they become better at making the components, increase the manufacturing volume, and understand where they can cut costs, the price comes down. Look at Tesla for example. They started with a very expensive model and are working their way down to affordable ones.

There definitely have been situations in the past where someone started with the low end of the market, for example Ford with the Model T car. However, I think the demand for cars at that point was established enough so that they could sell as many low-priced cars as they could crank out. I am not convinced the market for EUCs is so large that you could sell as many as you could make, even at half the price the good ones sell for today. At least, not in the USA. We need better pedestrian and bicycle infrastructure that EUCs could use.

 

[Pingouin]

Hi,

Even though there are +1000 euros EUC, you can buy cheaper ones, but you get what you paid for.

When comparing a +1000 euros EUC which is top of the line, to a 1200 euros E-bike, look at the e-bike you get, is is certainly not a top of the line (I had one), with few functions, not very reliable you need a +2000 euros e-bike if you want a good one...In my opinion, EUC are not cheap, but they aren't all that expensive if you use it to commute.

[johrhoj]

35 minutes ago, LEO_LEO said:

I believe that if this forum is intended as a pioneer site , should engage more in the search for good products at low cost to everyone

If you mean that as a forum member you could buy at reduced price ... that would be nice. You could count me in. If someone took initiative to buy 10 new gotway MSuper V3 and distribute them among the interested members, that would be great. 

One of the problems is that the members are from all around the world.

But if, on a regular basis, for certain regions (say north-west europe or east US), the option existed to register for some specific brand/model ... and if, when enough ppl register, a significant pricecut can be obtained through sheer volume ... that would be a great idea. 

What brand/model would be a good candidate? Maybe inmotion V5F+ or even V8, or gotway msuper v3?

[esaj]

53 minutes ago, LEO_LEO said:

 

I'm sick of seeing euc 1000 EUR/$ narrated as good products , even I understand these are good , 
but a vehicle of this kind , to be innovative , should be a good price to meet at all , an electric bike costs less , 
surely you can not bring it to the office , but it is also true that he has a better usability . 
I believe that if this forum is intended as a pioneer site , should engage more in the search for good products at low cost to everyone
AUGH  

I'm not sure where you're going with this, true that not everyone can afford >1000€ wheels, but we (as a forum) don't dictate the prices, and if the members get those >1000€ wheels and write about and praise them, what should we do about it? Censor their messages?   Many of the riders are in their 50's or above, have steady income and probably their kids (if any) have already moved out, so they got the cash to spare for more expensive items.

This forum isn't for marketing of the wheels (although we do have the advertisement-sections, because otherwise manufacturers / resellers would post their ads all over the place), but to discuss about them in general. 

Like @dmethvin said, the market and products are still new and somewhat niche, mass-producing (most) models is still in the early stage (whether it's because of lack of capital or demand, I don't know). I doubt currently anyone, especially the smaller resellers/manufacturers, are making much money, and even if the wheel would cost 500€ in China, that price goes up to 1000€ easily when importing it to Europe (freight costs, import taxes...), and then resellers have to pay for storage, possible employee salaries, logistics, utilities... the list goes on, plus make a living themselves. Finally you slap a VAT on top of the net price, and voila, you have a 1000€ wheel.

I'm not rich by any measure (but not really poor either), but I save up monthly from my salary so I can sometimes buy "nice things" for myself...

EDIT: Btw, what does "EHI" stand for?

[tadrossi]

In all honesty. I think the expensive euc are well worth it. Very few things in life have over delivered for me.  But the euc and the feeling of freedom and enjoyment that comes from it I think is well worth it. I fried my first MCM4 within 20 min of getting it in the mail. (fell in creek).SMH..

I bought another one the same day. Well worth it.  I think the euc is one of the few thing in this worlsd that are well worth the cost. Everybody cant afford a private jet either. But no one is complaining about the cost. Just my 2 cents.

[LEO_LEO]

ok, I try to say my toughts in another way:

I dont want to be a testimonial of a new product that I can afford just me, I want to be a testimonial of a product that is affordable for everyone, and this target should be a must for a network community  who like the euc

...Re-AUGH!

[johrhoj]

57 minutes ago, LEO_LEO said:

I dont want to be a testimonial of a new product that I can afford just me, I want to be a testimonial of a product that is affordable for everyone, and this target should be a must for a network community  who like the euc

I respectfully disagree. 

This is a very fine forum. Many ppl sharing their experiences, asking questions, giving answers. Being part of this forum is a good way to stay up to date with what happens in the field.

The above is enough validation for this (or any) forum. 

As most of this forum's members are enthousiasts (as opposed to professionals) there is not much influance or leverage on any other party. In other words, this forum does not do stuff. Therefor, the "target" the platform should have according to you is futile and unobtainable.

I am not saying that there cannot exist forums with targets like you want, but it just is not this forum. What you need is a non-profit organisation of some sort, with an income from donations of some volume, actively persuing the target. The organisation can run a forum, dedicated to the target, and attract all ppl with the same inclination. 

Let me put it in a question: What would you like the forum to do in order to obtain the goal?

[Paddylaz]

1 hour ago, LEO_LEO said:

I want to be a testimonial of a product that is affordable for everyone

Again, as @esaj said, these are both a niche and new product category. Even after months of riding I STILL get people asking what it is. Every new piece of tech starts off expensive. It HAS to. It must become mainstream before it is cost-effective for businesses/manufacturers to sell at more 'affordable' prices.
 

ps. The Airwheel X8 (not considered by many on this forum to be exactly desirable) was selling at Maplins for £900 in January. Now it's £559. Only 7 months! You won't see an iPhone doing that......

Prices will fall.

[Keith]

I think another problem that has resulted in a gravitation to the higher price units is that there is a a mass of different named cheap wheels and clones none of which, as a result, get much following, so there is little feedback/support other than, perhaps, Airwheel, TG-T3 and Freeman. In practice anyone who is likely to become active in this forum outgrows these wheels quickly with the exception of those who want cheap, light wheels for stunts, where they are ideal.

[OliverH]

1 hour ago, LEO_LEO said:

ok, I try to say my toughts in another way:

I dont want to be a testimonial of a new product that I can afford just me, I want to be a testimonial of a product that is affordable for everyone, and this target should be a must for a network community  who like the euc

...Re-AUGH!

It will need some time with new products, new companies and better quality. Today we're all crash test dummies, unpaid, but we're pioneers.
I sometimes ask myself is it to easy or to difficult to alter the products meet the requirements? Sorry, that was some kind of offensive. But we're getting to the point that more countries in europe call them illegal and stop tolerating their use. If we're at that point we don't have a product meeting the national approvals or the upcoming PLEV standard. The current companies will be not able to supply a product meeting safety requirements in time and they will have a challenge to get the status being accepted as a manufacturer.

[LEO_LEO]

23 minutes ago, johrhoj said:

Let me put it in a question: What would you like the forum to do in order to obtain the goal?

 

ok

I do not know if it's possible but I propose a form asking these parameters to build a real comaprative table of all existing products preloaded, I am a beginner, I can guess the most 'easy
Price (EU / USA / East), wheel size, engine power, average mileage, personalization settings, reliability (motor / battery / hardware-software),
look, vote of the experts, vote of the holders, comment, link to forum discussion

A table of this kind would serve to everyone, both to users and to manufacturers

 

[Johey]

You should get politically involved, arguing for subsidised electric unicycles! 

[EricGhost]

@LEO_LEO unfortunately the EUC market is not the same of IPOD-0, where hundreds milions or billion of walkman or CD players where used worldwide; or for IPHONE-0 where again a billion or more of mobile phones where around, and both Apple products at the early appereance in the market were not cheap.

I read the forum members here are 0.01%, hope I remember properly, of the market which means at the best a few millions EUC worldwide, 1$ profit means few millions profit while the above cases means billions, this if only one company is on the market so you have to share the cake

I tell you that sometimes I'm a bit scared to run my ks16 paid 1500€ if I think about it's costs, if you took out, reseller cost, battery cost (I do not think LG or PANASONIC make special prices for EUC), engine cost, electronic cost, FW developments, ....., some profit for the investors .... Well there is a reason why it's mainly China Companies and reliability is an argument in the forum 

On the other side to have in the forum a kind of EUC DB, listing all well known EUC manufacturers, their products, with their technical tables and forum members vote/reviews (like apps),plus forum expert considerations, with possibility to query based on some needs like: price,wheel side,speed,torque, manufacturer,etc.. 

But it's huge work and tricky once you start to evaluate in public products

[esaj]

13 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

I read the forum members here are 0.01%, hope I remember properly, of the market which means at the best a few millions EUC worldwide, 1$ profit means few millions profit while the above cases means billions, this if only one company is on the market so you have to share the cake

Except Apple's profit is a "bit" more than 1$ per phone  :

iPhone 5 Manufacturing and Operating Cost Estimates
Manufacturing Total     $226.85
Research & Development    $18.85
Software & Administrative    $42.33
Total Cost     $288.03+

Wholesale to retail markup: $68.90
The iPhone 5 16GB retails for $649.99. This is what it costs at an Apple store and what you’ll pay for it if you don’t sign up for a two-year wireless contract with your carrier. But this cost includes a retail markup. It’s difficult determine the exact markup but Apple’s balance sheet indicates it makes an average of $581.09 per iPhone. If we assume this is true, that gives it a retail markup of $68.90.

Though Apple’s total gross margin is 36.9 percent, it’s iPhone margin is likely much higher. Reuters estimated that Apple made as much as 49-58 percent profit margins on iPhones from Oct. 2010 to March 2012. The iPhone 5’s profits likely remain much higher than its overall margin, which is pulled down by the thinner profits Apple makes on the iPad and other products.

If we take the $581.09 wholesale price of the iPhone 5 16GB model and subtract the manufacturing costs we estimated at $226.85, we get $354.24, which leaves a 61 percent gross profit margin. Subtract the “R&D, Administrative, & Licensing” costs we calculated at $61.18 (10.5 percent) from that total and we end up with $293.06, or about about 50.4 percent of the wholesale cost of an iPhone. This is in line with Reuter’s 49-58 percent estimate for iPhone sales, though we’ve added in Apple’s fixed costs as well

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/iphone-cost-what-apple-is-paying/#ixzz4GurWQHiX

 

I remember seeing a similar calculation for iPhone 6 Plus (the manufacturing etc. costs where something like $270), and the margin was pretty close to 50% there too. Some competitors actually have phones with more expensive hardware, that sells for less... go figure.

 

[EricGhost]

 

 

11 minutes ago, esaj said:

I remember seeing a similar calculation for iPhone 6 Plus (the manufacturing etc. costs where something like $270), and the margin was pretty close to 50% there too. Some competitors actually have phones with more expensive hardware, that sells for less... go figure.

 

40-50% margine is quite the rule in business unfortunately the smaller the market the higher the %, plus the EUC inherent instability and I start to think I'm crazy to run my EUC as my wife regularly states 

[OliverH]

50 minutes ago, EricGhost said:

@LEO_LEO unfortunately the EUC market is not the same of IPOD-0, where hundreds milions or billion of walkman or CD players where used worldwide; or for IPHONE-0 where again a billion or more of mobile phones where around, and both Apple products at the early appereance in the market were not cheap.

I read the forum members here are 0.01%, hope I remember properly, of the market which means at the best a few millions EUC worldwide, 1$ profit means few millions profit while the above cases means billions, this if only one company is on the market so you have to share the cake

I tell you that sometimes I'm a bit scared to run my ks16 paid 1500€ if I think about it's costs, if you took out, reseller cost, battery cost (I do not think LG or PANASONIC make special prices for EUC), engine cost, electronic cost, FW developments, ....., some profit for the investors .... Well there is a reason why it's mainly China Companies and reliability is an argument in the forum 

On the other side to have in the forum a kind of EUC DB, listing all well known EUC manufacturers, their products, with their technical tables and forum members vote/reviews (like apps),plus forum expert considerations, with possibility to query based on some needs like: price,wheel side,speed,torque, manufacturer,etc.. 

But it's huge work and tricky once you start to evaluate in public products

The big margin happens in the sales channel/ distribution not at the manufacturer.  Don't expect there're sold so many EUC up to now.

[EricGhost]

1 hour ago, OliverH said:

The big margin happens in the sales channel/ distribution not at the manufacturer.  Don't expect there're sold so many EUC up to now.

Which means even less money for the Product itself  

Are we EUC Kamikaze ?

[MarkoMarjamaa]

@LEO_LEO, not good netiquette to shout...

 

My Airwheel X5 Music cost about 600e about two years ago. I bought it from finnish company because we have strong consumer protection laws.

Maybe those that bought cheaper ones don't want to share their failures? I personally would not want to buy 300e EUC. I could, if I know the company and it's reputation.

 

 

[LEO_LEO]

@MarkoMarjamaa , hi

 

NOW I AM SHOUTING, Now I Do not  (font size was to make clear the problem in a way summed up)

...and I'm desperate, the euc market is a jungle, I can not comprehend why there is no general tendency to select wheels that work well at low prices. I do not think there is such a complex research to make a decent wheel, I miss the UEC Ford Model T, or the VW Beetle, because in my mind they are the right solution to fly the world

[Pingouin]

5 minutes ago, LEO_LEO said:

 I can not comprehend why there is no general tendency to select wheels that work well at low prices.

Hi, I think this is because the wheels that work well at low prices have a tendency to have issues most of the time, for the TG3 it is ok, however the performances are quite low compared to a ninebot one E+ for example (less range, less speed, no app etc)

[Paddylaz]

4 minutes ago, LEO_LEO said:

@MarkoMarjamaa , hi

 

NOW I AM SHOUTING, Now I Do not  (font size was to make clear the problem in a way summed up)

...and I'm desperate, the euc market is a jungle, I can not comprehend why there is no general tendency to select wheels that work well at low prices. I do not think there is such a complex research to make a decent wheel, I miss the UEC Ford Model T, or the VW Beetle, because in my mind they are the right solution to fly the world

Your argument doesn't really make any sense - this is a brand new product. So how have you decided they are expensive? Compared to what?

The original Segway that started all these self-balancing machines costs £5000.

[OliverH]

2 hours ago, EricGhost said:

Which means even less money for the Product itself  

Are we EUC Kamikaze ?

Not enough to move the business where we need to be. 

[EricGhost]

1 hour ago, Paddylaz said:

Your argument doesn't really make any sense - this is a brand new product. So how have you decided they are expensive? Compared to what?

The original Segway that started all these self-balancing machines costs £5000.

£2500 a wheel  

[MarkoMarjamaa]

1 hour ago, LEO_LEO said:

@MarkoMarjamaa , hi

 

NOW I AM SHOUTING, Now I Do not  (font size was to make clear the problem in a way summed up)

...and I'm desperate, the euc market is a jungle, I can not comprehend why there is no general tendency to select wheels that work well at low prices. I do not think there is such a complex research to make a decent wheel, I miss the UEC Ford Model T, or the VW Beetle, because in my mind they are the right solution to fly the world

So, what's stopping you of doing this? Buying cheaper wheel and writing reviews of it?

Why somebody else has to do it?