Are All A2s The Same?

[Funky]

@Voyager Question - do you need to carry your wheel ever? If yes - think really hard will you be happy carrying around ~25kg dead weight?

I at start thought 18xl would be perfect for me. As i wanted an 18" wheel. And it was one of lightest.. BUT after riding for 3 years and commuting daily. I have found out i ride around 25-35km/h speeds. Range i need daily 5km. Simply said 18xl is to powerful for what i really need from wheel.

Sure i was going 45km/h speeds first year. But after "honey moon" period, i started to use it only for commuting to work and going much slower..

Think what you want - speed/range/weight. And get right model. At least now i know what i want from my next wheel.. But that said - it's mostly to do with it's weight. I don't want anything heavier than my 18xl, as i need to carry my wheel A LOT! And for my next wheel i'll be looking sub ~20kg weight. (Looking... More like waiting for some manufacturer to build something decent..)

 

P.S. I'm one of those - who don't really want suspension on a wheel.. Simply because it's another failure point down the road. And my commute being only 2miles (round trip that is) I don't need the suspension. If you ride 10+ Miles everyday. Then i would start to look at suspension.

Edited December 19, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, Voyager said:

what is of primary importance to me, is safety, reliability, build quality plus quality of materials & components, stability, comfort, and good overall QC.

In that case, you should consider Leaper Kim or Inmotion wheels.

The Kingsong S22 is a nice riding wheel, unfortunately, the QC is below par, as well as quality of some components. I think KIngsong is working to improve things.

Personally, I would not get a heavy wheel as my first wheel though.

For most people, learning on a smaller wheel is usually quicker, and a more pleasant experience.

And then later on, your first wheel can become your backup wheel.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by techyiam

[Ethereal]

11 hours ago, Hellkitten said:

I have an m10-4 which has similar specs as this wheel. Are the differences just overall dimensions, waterproofing and the tire size? How do the rides compare? Why pick one over the other? 

I had an MTen3 for a couple years and it was a great 2nd wheel. However, after 17 mph I would get the wobbles. The fastest I ever rode the A2 was at 21 mph and have never had any wobbles. Definitely more stable at speed than the MTen3. The A2 looks more like a real EUC than the MTen3 in my opinion. I was tempted to get the MTen4 but decided on the A2 for both cosmetic and functional reasons. 

[techyiam]

9 hours ago, Voyager said:

I really wish I could find a used wheel, condition unimportant,  to learn on. Frustrating hobby to get into 

I have never bought a used euc before, but if I were contemplating to do so, I would be worried about potential battery fires.

So at least get a used wheel that can be charged fully. And if it has a Smart BMS, one can also check for the degree of cell voltage imbalances.

 

Regarding frustration, I went through something similar when I started out.

For me, not knowing whether I would ever be able to learn to ride one, be able to commute on one, or how much police enforcement is actual practiced, placed impediments to my wanting to spend money on one. After much digging on the Internet, I chose to buy something more economical (less risk, and I was on a budget), easy to learn on and could act as a backup in a pinch.

On hind sight, I was able to learn to ride one, albeit it took a long time. I didn't mind. At times, I had doubts about euc's would ever be able to be a commuter. I almost bought a higher end e-scooter to test the waters. Over time, I overcame the humps. Note also, wheels drop most often during the learning stage, unless the rider is racing, experimenting, taking high risks, or learning to do more advanced stuff at a later stage.

Moreover, along the way, I also developed preferences/biases, and learnt technical aspects of euc's. In addition, the improvements of euc's in new models were rapid. I am glad that I did not buy something like an OG Sherman, which was a hot item at the time. As it turned out, even having tried riding Sherman a few times, I never clicked with it.

The two wheels that I find to be easy, intuitive, and fun to ride are the Patton and the S22. For others, it could be entirely different.

Food for thought.

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by techyiam

[Marty Backe]

18 hours ago, Voyager said:

I'm very impressed by Leaperkim, I think of them as 'the quiet achiever'. No great fanfare or bragging, but asides from the early Abrams, they seem to have a very good track record. I was very impressed with Sherman S when it came out, also Patton when it followed.

As I see it, (from internet land...)  evolution of the design sees the Lynx really hitting a sweet spot between the two, plus other improvements that have been made. A very nice wheel as I see it, especially for someone not wanting one of the 'smaller' more trail/jump focussed 16/17" wheels. A Sherman S size wheel with the alleged weight of the Patton is attractive enough in itself.

I'm very tempted by the Lynx. Not for the speed it is capable of, or other race type attributes others are (rightfully) pointing to, but personally for the quality of build, materials and components, plus the overall QC that seems to be shining through. At the distance I am from a repair/warranty facility, it is important to me that I try to minimise (as much as can be possible), the possibility of having to return a wheel. I also really like the improved ergonomics they have designed into the Lynx (top of the Suspension struts).

Very early days I understand, but do you have any opinion between Sherman S and Lynx at this point? I'd rather keep the weight as low as possible (in the scheme of things of course). Also, the extra range the Sherman S is probably capable of, would not be a factor for me I'm sure.

Thanks again for your comments Marty.

If you really feel confident you don't need the range of the S than I absolutely would recommend the Lynx for its better handling, power, and suspension. 

[Marty Backe]

15 hours ago, Funky said:

@Voyager Question - do you need to carry your wheel ever? If yes - think really hard will you be happy carrying around ~25kg dead weight?

I at start thought 18xl would be perfect for me. As i wanted an 18" wheel. And it was one of lightest.. BUT after riding for 3 years and commuting daily. I have found out i ride around 25-35km/h speeds. Range i need daily 5km. Simply said 18xl is to powerful for what i really need from wheel.

Sure i was going 45km/h speeds first year. But after "honey moon" period, i started to use it only for commuting to work and going much slower..

Think what you want - speed/range/weight. And get right model. At least now i know what i want from my next wheel.. But that said - it's mostly to do with it's weight. I don't want anything heavier than my 18xl, as i need to carry my wheel A LOT! And for my next wheel i'll be looking sub ~20kg weight. (Looking... More like waiting for some manufacturer to build something decent..)

 

P.S. I'm one of those - who don't really want suspension on a wheel.. Simply because it's another failure point down the road. And my commute being only 2miles (round trip that is) I don't need the suspension. If you ride 10+ Miles everyday. Then i would start to look at suspension.

Have you ever ridden a suspension wheel for more than 5-minutes?

[Funky]

34 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Have you ever ridden a suspension wheel for more than 5-minutes?

No. But i know what suspension brings to ONE-wheeled devices...

Aka: it makes ride feel 10x times fold more effectively better vs regular bicycle suspension. Ride gets more safe also, etc.. And still i would choose non-suspension one. Why? Firstly i'm 280lbs and market made suspension won't really work for my weight. Second i don't want to work on wheel, if i don't have to. (I have no problem working on it, soldering, tire changes.. I just don't wanna.) Over time ANY suspension gets loose and start rubbing.. Needing to "re-line" and all that. (Even once per year fixings..)

I choose non-suspension. The sad thing is - most new wheels come with suspension.. Meaning i will have to buy a suspension wheel anyways down the road.  KS-S14 for example. (If it's ever gonna be made.) Doesn't help that i want sub 20kg wheel. And suspension just adds weight. Also somehow suspension makes wheels max carry capacity lower, i have noticed vs non-suspension ones.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Voyager said:

I imagine you're glad you didn't buy the e-scooter though... 

Sure am.

It was close. Luckily, I made an important step forward in time. It was just enough to give me hope that the potential of euc's as a commuter was reachable by me.

Even then, it took me some time to reach a level where I felt really comfortable. And now, I would not consider any other types of pev's.

[OldSolo]

On 12/19/2023 at 1:51 PM, Voyager said:

Thanks again for your question Funky. It's valid and does need to be a consideration. 

I've looked at how much I would need to carry a wheel. Not too often is the answer I've come up with, but obviously there will be occasions where I need to lift. I have made a ramp out of an old plank of wood, which will do if I ever want to put a wheel in the back of my car, so that'll save a lift there. There's no stairs where I live either, so home to home journeys should be fine. 

Just a bit of my history is this: After many years of studying and doing my own lifting (weights) I coached people to lift. I was always concerned with correct form so that I, or others did not get injured. As a consequence, I have also been interested in ergonomics for a number of years. With these wheels, I appreciate the placement of double handles on the Veteran/Leaperkim wheels. Pretty sure they were the first company to start that, with the OG Sherman. If I had to, I would much rather lift a 40kg wheel with two balanced handles than a 25kg wheel (for example) with just the one handle. The IM V12 at about 31kg is a very awkward lift with just the one handle. Don't ask me how I know.. Basically, if I need to lift a wheel, I'd prefer well placed double handles. A good trolley handle should take care of other times when it needs to be moved around. 

As you say though, it's important to consider what is required of a wheel. I know (hope) my 'need for speed' days are behind me now. I had a few very fast motorcycles (allegedly) about 30 or so years ago. (Of course I never broke the speed limit officer). So great speed is not a requirement, nor is long range either as far as I can tell. However, what is of primary importance to me, is safety, reliability, build quality plus quality of materials & components, stability, comfort, and good overall QC. Not much of an ask then...   So with that considered, there's a fair chance that I'll end up getting something with more performance than I will require. That will in turn weigh more than I would ideally like for general handling, but weight isn't always a bad thing when it comes to performance and stability. 

Bit of a ramble there. Hopefully it explains my thought process somewhat.  

Absolutely agree about the handles, rather than turning this into a kettlebell exercise!  The folding plastic dog ramp that Ethereal linked on his video looks great for loading.

It is tough for those of us without exposure to other wheels to demo, much less a used market.  One funny observation on the A2: from so many years on bicycles (road riding/racing as well as MTBs) every time I go across a pavement seam or small transition bump, I keep waiting for the second bump as the back tire hits it!  It is such an odd sensation, even when I am thinking about it I still have so many years of that sensation, just having the one 'thunk' seems strange.  A 15.8" rolling diameter on the A2 gives a little jolt, I really do look forward to suspension.  But as I noted elsewhere, I am going to add a small rack to the back of my Yamaha as I want to cart the A2 downtown & ride IN PUBLIC.  There don't seem to be any riders around here, and i want to give these devices some exposure.

Edited December 20, 2023 by OldSolo

[Marty Backe]

14 hours ago, Funky said:

No. But i know what suspension brings to ONE-wheeled devices...

Aka: it makes ride feel 10x times fold more effectively better vs regular bicycle suspension. Ride gets more safe also, etc.. And still i would choose non-suspension one. Why? Firstly i'm 280lbs and market made suspension won't really work for my weight. Second i don't want to work on wheel, if i don't have to. (I have no problem working on it, soldering, tire changes.. I just don't wanna.) Over time ANY suspension gets loose and start rubbing.. Needing to "re-line" and all that. (Even once per year fixings..)

I choose non-suspension. The sad thing is - most new wheels come with suspension.. Meaning i will have to buy a suspension wheel anyways down the road.  KS-S14 for example. (If it's ever gonna be made.) Doesn't help that i want sub 20kg wheel. And suspension just adds weight. Also somehow suspension makes wheels max carry capacity lower, i have noticed vs non-suspension ones.

I understand. Unfortunately for you I don't believe non-suspension wheels will be made going forward, except for the smallest of wheels. You probably represent  less than 5% of the community so there's no money in it for the manufacturers to invest in non-suspension wheels.

It is possible to lock out the suspension which some people do. The V13 even allows you to do this as a feature.

Nobody "wants" to work on their wheels, including me   Life is not a walk in the park 

[Marty Backe]

9 hours ago, Voyager said:

Thanks again Marty. At the price it is, I'll have to think long and hard, but it for a lot of reasons, it seems to make good sense. 

Asides from residual weakness and some post-ride pain, both of which will improve with time, you seem to be well on your way to a full recovery of your ankle. I hope it continues to improve and you find yourself as good as you were before your accident. 

Thank you for the well wishes. I've made great progress in 5-months but it does feel like it's going to be at least another 5-months before I'm fully recovered, assuming that I'll ever be fully recovered.

Don't break a leg 

[Funky]

52 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I understand. Unfortunately for you I don't believe non-suspension wheels will be made going forward, except for the smallest of wheels. You probably represent  less than 5% of the community so there's no money in it for the manufacturers to invest in non-suspension wheels.

It is possible to lock out the suspension which some people do. The V13 even allows you to do this as a feature.

Nobody "wants" to work on their wheels, including me   Life is not a walk in the park 

My family has already 2 folks who don't want suspension.. If you mean by "community" - people who are on youtube and on this forums - YES, i would agree. But in real world i bet there's a lot more than 5% of us. Most people who ride theses small "last mileage" wheels don't talk about euc's and don't register on forums like this one. They more or less use it like they have used bicycles or regular cheap e-scooters going on with their daily life. "We" also don't own 13 wheels, 1 is enough, because you only ride one a time.. And if you're ridding around block, not going long distances. You don't really need suspension.

Hey - if they can make an actually working suspension. I'm all for it! Not the junk we are getting now. (Sorry, not sorry. These "suspensions" is a joke!)

Also aside of suspensions wheels - we simply don't get any lightweight wheels made anymore. In my country we ride only sidewalks. And for sidewalks we don't need big/fast euc's. And i can easily say that lightweight/cheap models would sell more than all these 2-4k$ wheels. All these new wheels are made to be ridden on streets with cars.. I have only seen old "slow/small" 16" in real world around here. And in places where you don't ride on bike lanes or streets. We have nothing new. Manufacturers simply choose to make only big/fast wheels. Because making slow/small vs big powerful takes the same amount of time. So one big for 3x$$$ amount of what small one would cost is better for them.

I can't wait when the 25kg weight limit will be put in place. (At least there where a talk going around about that law/rule..) Maybe, just maybe then ill get new wheel.  

Edited December 20, 2023 by Funky

[Marty Backe]

16 minutes ago, Funky said:

My family has already 2 folks who don't want suspension.. If you mean by "community" - people who are on youtube and on this forums - YES, i would agree. But in real world i bet there's a lot more than 5% of us. Most people who ride theses small "last mileage" wheels don't talk about euc's and don't register on forums like this one. They more or less use it like they have used bicycles or regular cheap e-scooters going on with their daily life. "We" also don't own 13 wheels, 1 is enough, because you only ride one a time.. And if you're ridding around block, not going long distances. You don't really need suspension.

Hey - if they can make an actually working suspension. I'm all for it! Not the junk we are getting now. (Sorry, not sorry. These "suspensions" is a joke!)

Also aside of suspensions wheels - we simply don't get any lightweight wheels made anymore. In my country we ride only sidewalks. And for sidewalks we don't need big/fast euc's. And i can easily say that lightweight/cheap models would sell more than all these 2-4k$ wheels. All these new wheels are made to be ridden on streets with cars.. I have only seen old "slow/small" 16" in real world around here. And in places where you don't ride on bike lanes or streets. We have nothing new. Manufacturers simply choose to make only big/fast wheels. Because making slow/small vs big powerful takes the same amount of time. So one big for 3x$$$ amount of what small one would cost is better for them.

I can't wait when the 25kg weight limit will be put in place. (At least there where a talk going around about that law/rule..) Maybe, just maybe then ill get new wheel.  

I continue to believe that riding EUC's will remain a niche activity primarily pursued by enthusiasts. Those people want mostly powerful wheels with suspension (how many motorcycles or cars are made with no suspension?).

If what you say is correct, that many more people than what's represented in the social community want small lightweight non-suspension wheels, than they would be actively made and sold. That appears not to be the case.

I understand that we are all different with varying desires. I'm fortunate to live where there are virtually no EUC laws and there probably never will be. But I'm happy for you if you live where there could be laws that would enforce small under-powered wheels so that you can get what you want. I suspect that such places with those laws will end up with no legal EUC's because those EUC's won't be made (the market will be too small).

Edited December 20, 2023 by Marty Backe

[Funky]

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I continue to believe that riding EUC's will remain a niche activity primarily pursued by enthusiasts. Those people want mostly powerful wheels with suspension (how many motorcycles or cars are made with no suspension?).

Ofc.. Because they only make wheels for "enthusiasts".. Now... 7 years ago you weren't an enthusiasts, where you? Did we suddenly stop birthing new people on this world? That get older? And start ridding wheels at some point? We still need slow/learners to be made.

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I understand that we are all different with varying desires. I'm fortunate to live where there are virtually no EUC laws and there probably never will be. But I'm happy for you if you live where there could be laws that would enforce small under-powered wheels so that you can get what you want. I suspect that such places with those laws will end up with no legal EUC's because those EUC's won't be made (the market will be too small).

And if that would be whole EUROPE law? E-scooters already have 25km/h max speed law in most Europe countries. What makes EUC's different? At some point there will be laws made. And manufactures will need to change their practice.

36 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

If what you say is correct, that many more people than what's represented in the social community want small lightweight non-suspension wheels, than they would be actively made and sold. That appears not to be the case.

But that's the thing - they aren't been made for how many years NOW!!!!  What option do we have? Only to buy the new monster euc's or "old" 2018 models. And if one doesn't need to carry wheel at all. Most would choose big/fancy wheel.

You see my point? We are getting only big performance wheels. Heck slowest/weakest wheel would be T4, S16 or V11Y that is/will be new now. In 2018 year that would be best performing wheel. And for nowadays standards T4, S16, V11Y - it's lightweight and slow.  In which mind 60km/h speed is slow.... Heck even 35km/h speed are quite fast compared to regular bicycles speeds. Most people compare euc to cars or motorcycles. But formfactor makes them more like "Toys". Then again i'm one of those who don't need to go faster then 50km/h EVER! And in my mind these one wheeled devices aren't really made to go that fast. Luckily most fast wheel have suspension, which are life savers in unseen pothole going 60-90km/h speeds.

I see my euc as bicycle replacement. Rest of world see them car/motorcycles replacement. I just wish both categories would get new wheels made. For people who don't wear gear and ride slow. And for people who wear full body suits and go 100km/h speeds.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Funky

[Mono]

On 12/20/2023 at 7:12 PM, Funky said:

Most people who ride theses small "last mileage" wheels don't talk about euc's and don't register on forums like this one. They more or less use it like they have used bicycles or regular cheap e-scooters going on with their daily life. "We" also don't own 13 wheels, 1 is enough, because you only ride one a time.. And if you're ridding around block, not going long distances. You don't really need suspension.

Exactly.

On 12/20/2023 at 7:28 PM, Marty Backe said:

If what you say is correct, that many more people than what's represented in the social community want small lightweight non-suspension wheels, than they would be actively made and sold.

Just because people want something, it is not magically made. There are lots of reasons why it could take years or decades until this magic happens. Also, as long as most people don't even know what an EUC is, we can hardly know with reasonable certainty what they want.

Personally, I know more people with a light wheel than with a big wheel because I know them through different means of contact than through "the EUC community". When I see a rider pass by, I see all kind of wheels. I didn't make specific counts on wheel sizes, but light wheels represent for sure way more than 5%. Also 1/3 of the riders I see passing wear no helmet at all (out of ~150 riders that I counted over some time) and I suspect most of them will never ever ride faster than 25km/h, like myself. There is a whole different world out there beyond "the community".

EDIT: Many more people in this world use a bicycle on a regular basis than a motorcycle and I would expect to see a similar preference for light vs big wheels. Additionally, "the EUC community" has a heavy gender bias which I suspect to be significantly correlated with the preference to ride bigger wheels.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Mono

[Funky]

6 hours ago, Mono said:

Personally, I know more people with a small wheel than with a big wheel because I know them through different means of contact than through "the EUC community". When I see a rider pass by, I see all kind of wheels. I didn't make specific counts on wheel sizes, but small wheels represent for sure way more than 5%. Also 1/3 of the riders I see passing wear no helmet at all and I suspect most of them will never ever ride faster than 25km/h, like myself. There is a whole different world out there beyond "the community".

I won't lie. If i where to ride on streets with cars and have no need to carry my wheel at all. I would right-out buy Sherman Max. V14. Or one of those "epic" wheels.  Heck i would even buy one of them simply to ride on sidewalks. I still would not gear up and simply go slower. Have amazing safety margins.  Those big/heavy wheels would be perfect for my heavy ass..

But after riding 3 years i have found out i don't need very powerful euc, i'm happy going 35km/h max. And battery wise even 840Wh would be plenty. Once a week charging, compared to my 18xl 1554Wh, where i charge it 2 times a month..

I so want new WHEEL...  Heck i'm ready to pay 2500$ for ks16s performance need be. I don't care that you can get "faster" and "better" wheels for same price. New design, waterproof, smart BMS, hollow bore motor - around 20kg. < Take my money!!! See i didn't write suspension, battery size, wheel size and max riding speed. THOSE can be changed to get the ~20kg weight. They can take any of the smaller wheels and "renew" it - Mcm5, teslas, 14/16s, v8/10 list goes on.. (By "renew" i mean having all the bells and whistles that big wheels nowadays have.)

Most "normal" electric scooters weight 25kg. So euc with same performance could easily be done around 20kg. And still have more range and be faster.. Heck even have suspension.  But nahh.. Big wheels sell for more $$$ and that's that. And market/community can go duck themselves. Mten4 sold - sold.. A2 sold - sold.. Any WHEEL will sell. Because there always will be someone who will buy it. No matter what rep/performance it has. Community/market doesn't account for everyone and their needs.

I'm just pissed..

[Mono]

On 12/21/2023 at 10:53 AM, Funky said:

I'm just pissed..

I must say I am overall reasonably happy with my newish (and updated) V8F EVO which is however an even smaller wheel than you would accept (my demand is carrying 80kg+attire at 25km/h which is of course not the same as 125kg at 35km/h). In particular, there have been continuous improvements of this wheel over many years which is arguably even better than getting an entirely new model every 2-3 years. I also saw that there are model updates of the small KingSong wheels but may not for the 18L?

Edited December 22, 2023 by Mono

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Mono said:

I must say I am overall reasonably happy with my newish V8F which is however an even smaller wheel than you would accept (my demand is carrying 80kg+attire at 25km/h which is of course not the same as 125kg at 35km/h). In particular, there have been continuous improvements of this wheel over many years which is arguably even better than getting an entirely new model every 2-3 years. I also saw that there are model updates of the small KingSong wheels but may not for the 18L?

Small updates doesn't make sense to me. You would be buying same wheel again.. If old one is working just fine - what's the point?

I'm riding around 25km/h myself. 35km/h is the max speed i would want out of the wheel. (Better would be 40km/h - which is reasonable speed for 700-1000Wh wheel with nowadays batteries vs what we had 5-6 years ago.)

These small updates won't suddenly include hollow bore motor, waterproofness, etc.. For that you need to make new wheel from ground up. Hey if V8F had solid axle - it would nod me it's way. As it's very light wheel and on my regular bicycle i was going 25-30km/h, mostly 20km/h without hurry.

 

18L/XL same for 16S has had 2-3 updates over years.. (18- Stronger motor, shell, lift sensor. 16-v2 variant and 2023 which include the new pedals for both.) 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Funky

[Marty Backe]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:53 AM, Funky said:

Ofc.. Because they only make wheels for "enthusiasts".. Now... 7 years ago you weren't an enthusiasts, where you? Did we suddenly stop birthing new people on this world? That get older? And start ridding wheels at some point? We still need slow/learners to be made.

And if that would be whole EUROPE law? E-scooters already have 25km/h max speed law in most Europe countries. What makes EUC's different? At some point there will be laws made. And manufactures will need to change their practice.

But that's the thing - they aren't been made for how many years NOW!!!!  What option do we have? Only to buy the new monster euc's or "old" 2018 models. And if one doesn't need to carry wheel at all. Most would choose big/fancy wheel.

You see my point? We are getting only big performance wheels. Heck slowest/weakest wheel would be T4, S16 or V11Y that is/will be new now. In 2018 year that would be best performing wheel. And for nowadays standards T4, S16, V11Y - it's lightweight and slow.  In which mind 60km/h speed is slow.... Heck even 35km/h speed are quite fast compared to regular bicycles speeds. Most people compare euc to cars or motorcycles. But formfactor makes them more like "Toys". Then again i'm one of those who don't need to go faster then 50km/h EVER! And in my mind these one wheeled devices aren't really made to go that fast. Luckily most fast wheel have suspension, which are life savers in unseen pothole going 60-90km/h speeds.

I see my euc as bicycle replacement. Rest of world see them car/motorcycles replacement. I just wish both categories would get new wheels made. For people who don't wear gear and ride slow. And for people who wear full body suits and go 100km/h speeds.

7-1/2 years ago when I started I bought the most powerful wheel made at the time to learn on. It was a great choice because didn't feel the need to buy another wheel immediately because there weren't any better wheels.

You and I fundamentally disagree about laws and such. I want zero laws regarding EUC's.

I believe in capitalism. If there's a market for a product (and it hasn't been declared illegal) than the product will be produced and people will buy it. Unfortunately for you, your EUC needs are at odds with the majority of EUC buyers out there. I think Inmotion still makes the small last-mile (last-kilometer) type wheels for those that want something small and lightweight. There's also the Mten3/4 wheels and even the A2.

[Marty Backe]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:53 AM, Funky said:

Ofc.. Because they only make wheels for "enthusiasts".. Now... 7 years ago you weren't an enthusiasts, where you? Did we suddenly stop birthing new people on this world? That get older? And start ridding wheels at some point? We still need slow/learners to be made.

And if that would be whole EUROPE law? E-scooters already have 25km/h max speed law in most Europe countries. What makes EUC's different? At some point there will be laws made. And manufactures will need to change their practice.

But that's the thing - they aren't been made for how many years NOW!!!!  What option do we have? Only to buy the new monster euc's or "old" 2018 models. And if one doesn't need to carry wheel at all. Most would choose big/fancy wheel.

You see my point? We are getting only big performance wheels. Heck slowest/weakest wheel would be T4, S16 or V11Y that is/will be new now. In 2018 year that would be best performing wheel. And for nowadays standards T4, S16, V11Y - it's lightweight and slow.  In which mind 60km/h speed is slow.... Heck even 35km/h speed are quite fast compared to regular bicycles speeds. Most people compare euc to cars or motorcycles. But formfactor makes them more like "Toys". Then again i'm one of those who don't need to go faster then 50km/h EVER! And in my mind these one wheeled devices aren't really made to go that fast. Luckily most fast wheel have suspension, which are life savers in unseen pothole going 60-90km/h speeds.

I see my euc as bicycle replacement. Rest of world see them car/motorcycles replacement. I just wish both categories would get new wheels made. For people who don't wear gear and ride slow. And for people who wear full body suits and go 100km/h speeds.

Also, see this recent comment from @Jason McNeil
 

 

[Marty Backe]

17 hours ago, Mono said:

Exactly.

Just because people want something, it is not magically made. There are lots of reasons why it could take years or decades until this magic happens. Also, as long as most people don't even know what an EUC is, we can hardly know with reasonable certainty what they want.

Personally, I know more people with a small wheel than with a big wheel because I know them through different means of contact than through "the EUC community". When I see a rider pass by, I see all kind of wheels. I didn't make specific counts on wheel sizes, but small wheels represent for sure way more than 5%. Also 1/3 of the riders I see passing wear no helmet at all (out of ~150 riders that I counted over some time) and I suspect most of them will never ever ride faster than 25km/h, like myself. There is a whole different world out there beyond "the community".

EDIT: Many more people in this world use a bicycle on a regular basis than a motorcycle and I would expect to see a similar preference for small vs big wheels. Additionally, "the EUC community" has a heavy gender bias which I suspect to be significantly correlated with the preference to ride bigger wheels.

Very interesting. In all my years I've only seen maybe 6 EUC riders "in the wild" that I did not know. You live where there are apparently a lot EUC riders 

As in all things in the world, there's a wide variety of people partaking in EUC ownership. My EUC interests lie in the enthusiasts category and I have zero interest in the people who use them for strictly practical reasons. We can all coexist. The people who ride small and slow wheels can advocate for their use cases and I'll continue to advocate for mine 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Marty Backe

[Funky]

24 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

7-1/2 years ago when I started I bought the most powerful wheel made at the time to learn on. It was a great choice because didn't feel the need to buy another wheel immediately because there weren't any better wheels.

You and I fundamentally disagree about laws and such. I want zero laws regarding EUC's.

Great - good for you.  I don't care about "the best" - i buy what i need.

Ohh i don't care about law/rules.. I just said about the 25kg weight limit. Because then "lighter" wheels will be made - which is great news for me.

Even if euc becomes illegal, i would continue to ride as i don't see police EVER. And don't care.

26 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

I believe in capitalism. If there's a market for a product (and it hasn't been declared illegal) than the product will be produced and people will buy it. Unfortunately for you, your EUC needs are at odds with the majority of EUC buyers out there. I think Inmotion still makes the small last-mile (last-kilometer) type wheels for those that want something small and lightweight. There's also the Mten3/4 wheels and even the A2.

Who's talking about legality? Even illegal things have market and people will buy them..

So only old models and only new one A2? Big list to choose from... See where i'm going with it? I have my 18xl and have zero wheels to choose/buy from. Because nothing has been made.. In that sweet goldilocks zone weight/speed/range.

27 minutes ago, Marty Backe said:

Very interesting. In all my years I've only seen maybe 6 EUC riders "in the wild" that I did not know. You live where there are apparently a lot EUC riders 

As in all things in the world, there's a wide variety of people partaking in EUC ownership. My EUC interests lie in the enthusiasts category and I have zero interest in the people who use them for strictly practical reasons. We can all coexist. The people who ride small and slow wheels can advocate for their use cases and I'll continue to advocate for mine 

See you are enthusiasts. Who owns or have ridden almost all wheels.. You are the "power" user of euc world. - Nothing wrong with it. People can do what ever they want. Same goes about riding which ever wheel they choose.

I know zero people who own EUC in real world. Have seen maybe 2-5 in my small city. Compared to USA where everything is connected by roads where most EUC can ride. We don't have that option here.. Again which is why we don't need big wheels around here. Example most smaller cities are 4x4Km big. You can explore whole city with small 14" wheel.

The problem is for people who don't need speed or range, we have ZERO new wheels. As you said only A2.. (Mten4 doesn't count, as it's a joke.)

 

Anyways. My grape is not about big wheels, or who/where rides one - you do you.. My grape is about manufacturers not making lightweight models anymore at all. You are lucky - you have over (How many new models have came out last 4 years?) Options to ride from. I have ZERO options to choose from. And there's more than enough people who like wheels like Mten4.. Heck some even bought that shit basketball from kingsong.. My point stays the same - we need lightweight wheels to be manufactured along side of big ones.

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Marty Backe said:

Also, see this recent comment from @Jason McNeil
 

 

Again same thing - NOTHING IS BEEN MADE in lightweight category - nothing new to sell = no numbers. How hard is it not to understand? Jesus..

We are getting around 10 new heavy wheels every year. But lightweight wheels??? Only A2, Mten4 over past 4 years. Jesus..

 

Also if all new wheels are heavy and only heavy wheels is being made. It will only sell. If you gonna sell only apples and nothing else, people will only buy apples. But some people like oranges. Which aren't been sold anymore. Only old oranges that are already showing age. NOONE WANT'S spoiled oranges.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Funky

[techyiam]

33 minutes ago, Funky said:

Also if all new shet is heavy and only heavy shet is being made. It will only sell. If you gonna sell only apples and nothing else, people will only buy apples. But some people like oranges. Which aren't been sold anymore. Only old oranges that are already showing age. NOONE WANT'S spoiled oranges.

Bob Yan mentioned that they saw their employees learning to ride an euc prefer to learn on a V11 than on some of their smaller wheels. Perhaps, after all these years, we come to realze that the smaller and lighter euc's are not necessarily needed to learn to ride with.

ewheels is saying the smaller wheels for 2023 has really plummeted. If a last-mile-device guy need a wheel, he will be out of luck, if the trend continues. Once the market of small wheels sinks, and dealers will also carry fewer wheels.

Edited December 21, 2023 by techyiam

[Funky]

11 minutes ago, techyiam said:

Bob Yan mentioned that they saw their employees learning to ride an euc prefer to learn on a V11 than on some of their smaller wheels. Perhaps, after all these years, we come to realze that the smaller and lighter euc's are not necessarily needed to learn to ride with.

ewheels is saying the smaller wheels for 2023 has really plummeted. If a last-mile-device guy need a wheel, he will be out of luck, if the trend continues. Once the market of small wheels sinks, and dealers will also carry fewer wheels.

Already saw.

People gonna learn on whatever wheel they get. Be big or small doesn't matter.

Second part same thing i already said before.. Apples and oranges. Also aren't Ewheels based in USA? Keep on trucking monster euc's. No-one needs/wants small wheels there. See the big picture for once. We need both small and big.

Edited December 21, 2023 by Funky