Charger enhancer for PEV

[Forwardnbak]

This is a neat little charge monitor to help prevent overcharging and some other safety features. I think a few people may be testing these units atm for feedback before release.

This is on my V11 for a quick set up to see it running.

In the box came a bunch of connectors for various chargers.

It feels well built and has a good display. The connectors seem ok.  

It allows you to set a required output charge limit to stop charging, monitor temps, have safety cut offs built in etc 

Seems like a great unit I'm still reading through the PDF but seems to be running great. 

I did an unbox video I can edit if anyone wants to see it. The production unit may have some changes.   

[davewood1982]

So where can it be bought from? is it mass produced, on amazon, in retailers ect or just another overpriced hobbyist product like the EUC Guardian?

[Forwardnbak]

8 hours ago, davewood1982 said:

So where can it be bought from? is it mass produced, on amazon, in retailers ect or just another overpriced hobbyist product like the EUC Guardian?

This is coming from a very reputable person with good EUC experience.

They are setting up online store atm and will offer a few more items. 

 

[Aekainal]

That's cool, can't wait to see your unboxing video.

[Forwardnbak]

8 hours ago, Reeves said:

That's cool, can't wait to see your unboxing video.

Thats great  I really was't sure I would bother editing the footage up it is only a small unit. Maybe I can take some more footage as I use it and see. So far it seems good. 

[Brendan "nog3" Halliday]

I'd be curious to see if that's got a coulomb counter in it so we can do capacity testing.

[Forwardnbak]

10 hours ago, Brendan "nog3" Halliday said:

I'd be curious to see if that's got a coulomb counter in it so we can do capacity testing.

ill find out mate 

[Forwardnbak]

Here is the features from the manual

English Version

I. Functional Description

1. Information Display:

• Displays voltage, current, power, time, energy, etc., of the vehicle battery during the charging process, providing clear parameters throughout the
charging process.

2. Customized Charging Objectives:

• Allows users to customize cut-off voltage and charging protection current by buttons, enabling the battery to operate within the most reasonable voltage range, ultimately extending battery life.

3. Charging Protection Mechanism:

• (1) Click the ON/OFF button during charging to cut off the charging output.
• (2) Cut off charging output once the set voltage is reached.
• (3) Cut off charging output upon reaching the set protection current threshold during charging.
• (4) Cut off output if the temperature exceeds 100°C during charging.
• (5) Discontinue charging output when reaching the full condition (charging current < 300ma).

4. Battery Capacity Measurement:

• When the battery is fully discharged to 0% and then charged to 100%, the energy value displayed on the screen is the current battery capacity.

[DavidB]

• When the battery is fully discharged to 0% and then charged to 100%, the energy value displayed on the screen is the current battery capacity.

Is this the energy drawn from the socket (what the power company records) or what the wheel stores in the battery?

With EVs there is sometimes a significant difference. But they do have battery heating/cooling plus lots of software and other systems running which would be not applicable to EUCs.

[mtl]

Fnb, is this something that connects between a regular charger and the wheel, or does this replace a normal charger?

I'd be interested in something that prevents the wheel from charging to 100% to help avoid over-voltage issues when starting a ride.

Edited November 29, 2023 by mtl

[Punxatawneyjoe]

On 11/28/2023 at 8:46 PM, mtl said:

Fnb, is this something that connects between a regular charger and the wheel

yes, it does.  He just included some info in his new video about it here. Starts unboxing at 2:02

On 11/28/2023 at 11:08 AM, Forwardnbak said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iji-uHEmi18&t=118

Edited December 6, 2023 by RagingGrandpa
(fix url)

[Forwardnbak]

On 11/28/2023 at 1:28 PM, DavidB said:

• When the battery is fully discharged to 0% and then charged to 100%, the energy value displayed on the screen is the current battery capacity.

Is this the energy drawn from the socket (what the power company records) or what the wheel stores in the battery?

With EVs there is sometimes a significant difference. But they do have battery heating/cooling plus lots of software and other systems running which would be not applicable to EUCs.

Im just reaching out for more info to make sure I give proper answers.  

[Chriull]

On 11/28/2023 at 4:28 AM, DavidB said:

• When the battery is fully discharged to 0% and then charged to 100%, the energy value displayed on the screen is the current battery capacity.

Yes. More or less - just 0% and 100% charge state of the battery does not correspond to the 0% and 100% shown by the wheels.

Also the battery capacity is defined by the manufacturers as Wh's taken from a fully charged battery with some (very) low constant current downto some (very) low voltage (~2.5V?)

On 11/28/2023 at 4:28 AM, DavidB said:

With EVs there is sometimes a significant difference. But they do have battery heating/cooling plus lots of software and other systems running which would be not applicable to EUCs.

EUCs have no notable energy consumption during the charge stage.

Just endless trickle charging could show some effect...

[Forwardnbak]

I have had no issues with my test unit so far, both V11 and V13 it has cut charge when required and the wheel stops charging multiple times.  

So far good peace of mind and learning to trust it. 

[Forwardnbak]

Here is a little look at this unit and a small 5% discount code - BAK  

[RagingGrandpa]

I still use and enjoy the now-defunct 84V Charge Doctor device, for specific purposes... nice to see a modern equivalent available.

On 11/26/2023 at 2:06 AM, Forwardnbak said:

help prevent overcharging

That seems misleading... EUC's won't let you go past 4.25V/cell (unless you've modified them to disable protections), no matter what charger you connect. 
 

Could you answer as briefly as possible: What problem does this product solve?

[Schmudel]

Looks really interesting. However, the manual states that the accuracy is only 1% which for a 100V wheel means plus minus 1 Volt.

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Could you answer as briefly as possible: What problem does this product solve?

For myself, I can think of a couple of uses.  (Def: Charging Buddy = Charger Enhancer)

(1) To dial in the amount of cell balancing I want. I can manually adjust the potentiometer inside the charger to increase the maximum charging voltage. However, the POT is very sensitive and it isn't convenient to open up the charger to adjust.

With the Charging Buddy, I can adjust the POT in the charger to a higher enough voltage, then use the Charging Buddy to conveniently set the maximum charging voltage depending on how much cell balancing I want.

(2) To limit the maximum charging current. For stock chargers such as the one that comes with the Extreme Bull Commander GT Pro, the maximum charging current is 10 A. When I am not in a hurry to get back out riding, I may want to dial down the maximum charging current.

 

Also after using the Charging Buddy for a while I can use it as a reference for current and voltage readouts, instead of the voltage and current readings in my wheels' apps.

[RagingGrandpa]

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

use the Charging Buddy to conveniently set the maximum charging voltage

Sorry, no. It will only shutoff the charging circuit. The charging buddy cannot regulate the voltage- only stop it once it exceeds the number you specify. 

For top-balancing to be effective, we need the voltage to remain at the 4.2V/cell level, and to allow the current to decay naturally while holding that voltage. If we stop the current abruptly, there is no balancing

 

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

dial down the maximum charging current

Nope. The charging buddy cannot regulate the current- only stop it once it exceeds the number you specify. 

I think that function is not useful for EUCs. We have no reason to abort charging when current exceeds some special threshold. (And the BMS has its own protections for fault currents.)

If you want to recharge more slowly, you need a smaller charger, or an adjustable charger.

 

5 hours ago, techyiam said:

reference for current and voltage readouts

Yes!

[techyiam]

29 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Sorry, no. It will only shutoff the charging circuit. The charging buddy cannot regulate the voltage- only stop it once it exceeds the number you specify. 

For top-balancing to be effective, we need the voltage to remain at the 4.2V/cell level, and to allow the current to decay naturally while holding that voltage. If we stop the current abruptly, there is no balancing

But stopping the charger is all I need. I set the POT in the charger to give me the highest voltage I would want. Then I set the Charging Buddy to shutoff at the preset voltage that I want. The amount of cell balancing depends on the voltage I set above a certain threshold around 4.2 V per cell.

36 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Nope. The charging buddy cannot regulate the current- only stop it once it exceeds the number you specify. 

I think that function is not useful for EUCs. We have no reason to abort charging when current exceeds some special threshold. (And the BMS has its own protections for fault currents.)

If you want to recharge more slowly, you need a smaller charger, or an adjustable charger.

You are right. It just add an extra layer of over-current protection. Since I use stock chargers, this 2nd layer of over-current protection isn't going to be too critical to have.

[Forwardnbak]

13 hours ago, RagingGrandpa said:

I still use and enjoy the now-defunct 84V Charge Doctor device, for specific purposes... nice to see a modern equivalent available.

That seems misleading... EUC's won't let you go past 4.25V/cell (unless you've modified them to disable protections), no matter what charger you connect. 
 

Could you answer as briefly as possible: What problem does this product solve?

Sorry for the delay I am playing host for xmas and knee deep in tinsel.

Maybe did I use wrong wording? 

 

When I said overcharge maybe I think I meant just "stops charging"

For me this unit helps with my anxiety, it allows me to know the charger stops output when required. As a user/consumer I do not know all the battery science and those that do possibly understand BMS, safety and maintenance better than new users.

I do not know or even really trust all PEV even my kids scooters that seem to have little safety built in, I get dragged away and they stay on charge too long it worries me. This just allows me to stress a bit less.

Even leaving my V11 on charger overnight used to worry me, I only have the lights on the charger to guide me and they were intermittent working anyway.

I asked Bob your question and he said this -  

"Let's say if everything like charger, battery cell, BMS works good all the time, you don't need a charger enhancer.  But in the reality, things can go wrong, that's way we constantly see EUC fires happening right?   So charger enhancer just adds an extra safety layer, except for all the existing components."   

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Forwardnbak

[Forwardnbak]

https://pidzoom.com/blogs/news/how-to-make-pev-charging-safer

[null]

As it seems it havent been mentioned, Pidzoom is the new PEV accessory company of Robert / Rob / Bob, ex CEO of Inmotion.

I could appreciate such a device but mostly if it was integrated with the charger.

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

But stopping the charger is all I need. I set the POT in the charger to give me the highest voltage I would want.

Be aware that the pot in the charger is for adjusting, so likely designed for seldom use!

1 hour ago, techyiam said:

Then I set the Charging Buddy to shutoff at the preset voltage that I want. The amount of cell balancing depends on the voltage I set above a certain threshold around 4.2 V per cell.

Controlling the amount of balancing by the voltage is maybe not the best way. Balancing happens (mostly) during the _constant_ voltage stage. As the name implies there is only some marginal voltage change depending on many parameters (internal resistances, cell age, charging current, charge state, temperature, charger characteristics, ...) and could be, at least over time prone to not neglectable drifts.

For all this reasons charge is normally controlled by monitoring the dropping current during this stage. This is a huge and easily to monitor change - so it's state of the art and recommended for li ion charging to use this as stop condition. By this stop condition one can easily control amount of "full charge" and cell balancing - the often recommended 80% charge to increase single li ion cells charge cycle count derives imho from stopping the charge at the end of the constant current stage - which is roughly in this 8x% range, depending on cells and current. The constant voltage stage charges the last 10-20% with decreasing currents, taking unproportionally longer time and stress for the cells.

Unfortunately ?some? wheels, as the veteran sherman has (?had?) some very strange bms/charge monitoring design which stopped charging shortly between constant current and constant voltage stage so "normal chargers confirming to li ion charge rules" were prematurely stopped from charging the battery ..

[null]

1 hour ago, Chriull said:

?some? wheels, as the veteran sherman has (?had?)

AFAIK not the OG Sherman, it has a charge cut off function but it kicks in very late, when the charger delivers less than 0,5A somewhere. The limit is so low that it doesn't even kick in with aging batteries. (I look at the voltage evolution most of the charges)

The S18 and some other KS firmwares had some weird behavior that didn't allow for proper balancing I believe.
There is also some Begode charge boards (master / EX30?)that will cut charge is the amperage is high when approaching CV phase.. (Seems my CP does that)

(Correct me if I'm wrong)