Cerbera Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) Had a situation yesterday where I found myself on a backroad, approaching the ridge of a hill on quite a blustery windy day. I was far left on the road, where a cycle would normally be, and there was a car behind me who seemed hesitant to overtake, so was remaining behind me at a fairly prosaic 30 kph or so. Worried that I might be annoying him with slow progress, but reluctant to go much faster in such blustery wind on a Master, I resolved to turn off at the first side-road I encountered... ..and in due course there was road on the left, so now I needed to indicate to tell the guy behind what I am planning. So I did the normal thing and smoothly extended my left arm into a nice, visible 'I am going left shortly' gesture. However, thanks to a sudden increase in wind, this had a significant effect on my aerodynamic profile, and I suddenly found myself wrenched off to the left, as that side of me became more 'draggy' and it was all I could do not to get railed into the kerb, or the horrible potholes in close proximity to it I had been carefully avoiding up to that point. I had to do a significant hard right lean, and literally stamp on the right pedal to avoid being spun in a disastrously tight circle leading to a horrible fall... luckily, on that occasion I reacted in time, and instinctively 'happened' to do the right thing to save it. Since then I have been indicating by pointing and rotating arm from the waist, which lessens that drag considerably, but also lessens the visibility of the signal. Anyone else run into that problem, and anyone found a nice elegant solution so we don't have to be doing hand signalling at all ? I am aware of helmet modules that do movement-based brake lights, but presumably that tech can't apply to indicators, which need to happen well before any turning motion has happened... Edited October 31, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novazeus Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 https://a.co/d/2ceWLnd maybe this. if i was riding on the road with cars, i'd definitely also have a modulating strobe mounted somewhere. it's a fact that driver's pick up on the modulating light. had them on all my motorcycles, headlight and taillight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Try this, with or without wind, ride ~ 25 kmph or more in a seated position and then extend your left arm out to the side (quickly if you dare) you will immediately observe your vehicle pulling hard to the right. And vice versa with the right hand and pull to the left. It is very useful if you can remember it (is a bit like counter steering on a motorcycle) if you need a quick evasive manoeuvre. Unfortunately, it is also extremely misleading, as those coming from behind can easily get the impression that you want to turn left when in reality you are pulling to the right... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, novazeus said: https://a.co/d/2ceWLnd maybe this. if i was riding on the road with cars, i'd definitely also have a modulating strobe mounted somewhere. it's a fact that driver's pick up on the modulating light. had them on all my motorcycles, headlight and taillight. Cheers. I like that vest thing, but it's yet another thing to have to put on, and yet another remote to be carrying. I probably can't avoid the latter, but would prefer a free-mounting module to a full-on vest. I shall investigate those... I do have 2 'aircraft grade' strobing red lights on either side of my wheel, so I am not worried about being generally visible, just people knowing that I am turning ! Those are so bright I have to turn them off even in a well lit supermarket because they blind children who look at the wrong time ! Edited October 31, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiiijojjo Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I used indik8a blinkers on my wrist guards for about 1 year before they broke. Highly recommended for night riding,but quite expensive for how briefly they lasted.. Maybe they have upgraded them since? Even without extending the arm fully the blinkers should be very visible. When I get a new euc I'm buying a new pair along with the "brake free light" to mount on the rear of my helmet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellkitten Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I also use a red blinker on my signalling arm for night riding. Not sure how your hand signals work in the UK, but in Canada you can either use the arm you’re going to turn to indicate the direction. Or you can use the arm that is closest to the traffic side to indicate. Perhaps using different arm sides depending on wind direction would help? We recently had a costume Halloween ride in town (I won second place 🎉) I had a cloak and scythe on and both of those things caught the wind like crazy. I was also riding an m10……… Needless to say I wasn’t comfortable going more than 20/25km in that getup. I realize that doesn’t fully help answer your question, but man I empathize with your windy ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eezo Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) Depending on the speed you're going, if you turn your body to face the direction you want to signal at the same time as your arm signal, the two movements balance each other out fairly well. Like if I'm going fast (30mph+) and want to drift slightly to my right, I turn my torso to the left and lean back slightly to change my weight/aerodynamic profile. The wind pushes my body to the right which makes my wheel drift slightly. Do this while signaling with your left arm, and vice versa, and you'll be pretty close to balanced. Edited October 31, 2023 by eezo 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_bike_kite Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 I tend to stay out in the traffic in the same position as a motorcycle as I don't like cars trying to squeeze past. I'm fine up to 30mph and don't ride on roads that go faster than this. When I have to turn, I just point with my hand to where I intend to turn keeping my arms at my sides but with maybe a 45 degree bend in my elbow. I find this doesn't catch the wind. If it's a really blustery day then I might consider leaving the EUC at home. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mike_bike_kite said: I tend to stay out in the traffic in the same position as a motorcycle as I don't like cars trying to squeeze past. I'm fine up to 30mph and don't ride on roads that go faster than this. When I have to turn, I just point with my hand to where I intend to turn keeping my arms at my sides but with maybe a 45 degree bend in my elbow. I find this doesn't catch the wind. If it's a really blustery day then I might consider leaving the EUC at home. Yep, that has been my approach ever since, and there is definitely less drag. I did an extra long ride today, so I won't mind not going out in the 70 mph winds that Storm Ciaran is bringing us, along with a foot of rain tomorrow and Thursday ! Edited October 31, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkmonkey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 We get tons of high speed winds in my area pretty much year round. I tend to ride fairly slow to account for this, but as you mentioned, the wind can make a big impact on an outstretched arm if the wind is fast enough. When that happens I tend to be very obvious about checking my blind spot in the direction that I want to turn. People generally get the message that you want to go that way. Seated riding has become my friend on windy days, as the lower profile makes me much less of a sail. That said, I don't like to ride seated in situations where I have to interact with traffic, or have the possibility of needing to do rapid stops, so it's not much help when turning like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said: Seated riding has become my friend on windy days, as the lower profile makes me much less of a sail. That said, I don't like to ride seated in situations where I have to interact with traffic, or have the possibility of needing to do rapid stops, so it's not much help when turning like that. I'm ashamed to say that a year into riding the Master I have not done any seated riding - I have tried many times, and I've got the built-up leg strength to be able to get that low, but from where I am standing (no pun intended!) there is just no way I can get my big MC boots out from behind my front Grizzlas in a way that let's my knees bend enough to seem comfortable or stable as I get down ! Dawn, bless her, has even made me a 15 minute vid kindly showing me how she does it, but I just can't get it to work for me. I really should persist and keep trying 'til I get it, because I am all too aware of how much better we are in high winds when seated, and it frequently annoys me that I don't have the confidence to sit down and save myself most of the horrible wind-based moments I have in most rides ! That damn high CoG Master - pretty much any wind over about 13 mph is a hazard ! I mean don't get me wrong - it's still hugely enjoyable, but would just be so much more so if I wasn't in a constant battle with, and drastically slowed down by those pesky and capricious UK winds ! It's a shame that couple of inches of height makes such a massive difference, but on calmer days, where there is no wind I do love being that high up, so maybe it just the price to be paid... Edited October 31, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skunkmonkey Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, Cerbera said: there is just no way I can get my big MC boots out from behind my front Grizzlas Yeah I've heard that some pad setups can really interfere with seated riding. Some windy day options I can think of if exaggerated blind spot checking doesn't help enough: Remove the front pads, unless you like to do hard riding I find that front pads are much less important than rear pads anyway. Wear a less cumbersome pair of boots. I use these B-52's, and find they provide a good mix of flat sole and ankle protection. https://www.famousfootwear.com/product/b52-by-bullboxer-mens-gunner-lace-up-casual-boot-1051564/cognac-54668?partnerid=paid_search_google_pla_pmax_69m&UTM_medium=paid&UTM_source=search&UTM_campaign=google&UTM_content=pla&cpc=Adwords&UTM_name=71700000100549477&UTM_term=1051564-54668-9.0M&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=Cj0KCQjwy4KqBhD0ARIsAEbCt6jpJrO2_TSoIw-OknwnafeFD5kZL0h9eP21Go7O2N9rFXxlsfsQ_CQaAqI5EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyberwolf Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 10 hours ago, Robse said: Try this, with or without wind, ride ~ 25 kmph or more in a seated position and then extend your left arm out to the side (quickly if you dare) you will immediately observe your vehicle pulling hard to the right. And vice versa with the right hand and pull to the left. It is very useful if you can remember it (is a bit like counter steering on a motorcycle) if you need a quick evasive manoeuvre. Unfortunately, it is also extremely misleading, as those coming from behind can easily get the impression that you want to turn left when in reality you are pulling to the right... I've found you get the same effect by swinging an extended arm forwards or backwards; fun to use this for lazy "deep-carving" at speed, and much less likely to look like a turn indicator... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 I dread single lane roads because of situations like these. Countryside ones are the most dangerous too because they're narrow, full of obstructed view turns, side roads that come on, and a fast pace with difficulty of overtaking. Throw in the wind and it's a recipe for potential disaster. Also, other motorists might not understand that an EUC needs more space than a bicycle. In any case. I'd ride only if necessary, and not do any sudden movements or acc/deceleration. I look behind me all the time and if I see something approaching and the road ahead looks uncertain, I try to stop to let the guy behind pass before he's already behind me. A rearview mirror would help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alcatraz Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Generally speaking, planning ahead is always better than trying to find a way out of a situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GothamMike Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 I keep my arm low to the ground, I wear LEDs on both glove, white on Left pointing forward, red on right pointing back. I make sure the LED can be seen behind me as I signal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Sacristan Posted November 4, 2023 Share Posted November 4, 2023 When night riding we are either a dark blob, a reflective blob, a neon lighted disco blob or some other kind of blob. It is hard for a car to make sense of us. Indicating in the dark won't do much and to make matters worse these newer high pedal wheels are more prone to wind so extending an arm out and causing drag on our hand can make for some exciting moments. Flashing red lights on the back of my gloves do the job nicely. I like the ones from Ali that come with a remote. This way I don't have to extend my arm all the way out. 2pcs 1 controller. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005316707320.html 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted November 4, 2023 Author Share Posted November 4, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mike Sacristan said: When night riding we are either a dark blob, a reflective blob, a neon lighted disco blob or some other kind of blob. Agreed, but better to be a visible blob than an invisible one ! For me that has been priority one, and as it happens I have the same lights as you do on your gloves (except manual turn-on version) on the sides of my wheel, where they are just doing red flashes for general visibility. Funnily enough I don't think 'indicator orange' is amongst the several colours they offer - we get the red and yellow either side, but nothing drivers over here will recognize as 'indicator colour'. I think mounting to rear of gloves is a good idea, although at night only those behind you will see them unless you also have others mounted to the wheel visible from the front / sides. What puts me off is having to hold the remote, and find the right buttons in the dark. For now I think I will stick to pavements, out of harms way at night, and go with the 'arms pinned / rotate from elbow' way of signalling the rest of the time. Edited November 4, 2023 by Cerbera 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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