New version of EUC world, but...

[Robse]

First of all; Many thanks to you @Seba  for your unimaginably great and good work for everyone in the EUC community but now there must also be room for some constructive criticism.  The latest/newest version of EUC world has brought the possibility of advanced control of tiltback / versus load and remaining capacity, also called pmw.  Unfortunately, this has done a bit "damage" the overview on the screen.  Firstly, the font size of the speed indication has shrunk, secondly, the previously manageable number of km driven on the current trip has now become so small, and even in grayed out font color, that it is impossible to see, and certainly not for us old rats who suffers a little from old man's vision. In the three pictures, from left to right, 1: The new look, 2: The old look, 3: My proposal for a solution.  Comments?

Edited October 9, 2023 by Robse

[Seba]

I love constructive criticism, as it helps me to develop and improve EUC World . Preparing the latest EUC World update was not easy, partly also because the main screen had to be modified to accomodate safety margin and to add ability to display average voltage per cell in place of the battery level. It took me a long time to work out the best possible compromise. Unfortunately, as with every compromise it's not the best possible solution and I'm afraid that if I try to improve one thing now, I'll mess up something else. I will try to explain it:

1. Font size of the speedometer has been reduced to accomodate safety margin readout, but also because displaying speeds above 99 kph/mph caused the value to be drawn partially over phone/watch battery level icons. It looked ugly, but I was able to eliminate this problem by slightly resizing font size down. Personally, I don't see any problem here as the speed is also reflected by large orange bargraph on the outer part of the gauge. Please note that you can change max speed displayed on the speed bargraph. This is very helpful to quickly determine actual riding speed without even reading exact speed value from the center of the gauge.
2. Trip mileage in fact is displayed in a smaller and darker font, as I assumed that this is not something important on a screen that is intended for real time awareness. It's also not a safety-related information (like safety margin, speed or batetry voltage per cell, being a great tool to monitor voltage sag without knowing battery configuration. Finally, this information is available on second page with all detailed live data and stats.
3. On the right image trip mileage is displayed in already occupied space, as energy consumption is displayed there. Your wheel was stationary at the moment of taking screenshot, so this information was not displayed at that moment (because energy consumption expressed in Wh/km or Wh/mi is infinite at zero speed). Energy consumption is an important value for many of riders. Displaying only a bargraph is not enough. It's a great way to get a rough reading quickly, but this needs to be supplemented by displaying the exact value to get precise information. This is why I had to add safety margin value just below relative load/safety margin bargraph.

As a side note - on the left picture there's a different font used than in two pictures on the right. It's proportionally wider, what may decrease readability. Font selection is done in the Android settings, EUC World only uses system-wide settings.

[JPAndrade]

Please, is it necessary to update the app on the smart watch for the safety margin to appear on the watch screen? The safety margin already appears on my cell phone screen. However, I haven't seen a change in the smart watch screen yet.

[Chriull]

3 hours ago, JPAndrade said:

Please, is it necessary to update the app on the smart watch for the safety margin to appear on the watch screen? The safety margin already appears on my cell phone screen. However, I haven't seen a change in the smart watch screen yet.

The new wear os watch version is to come:

 

[skunkmonkey]

@Seba I just wanted to say thanks for providing this invaluable tool. I would have been a nervous wreck with my new EUC without the safety margin report... okay I was a nervous wreck anyway, but at least I wasn't worried about a cutout. EUC World is great for finding a good top speed in a safe manner. I'll definitely be using it for every new EUC I get, not to mention that my V11 doesn't have a speedometer, so it's nice to have that info available.

[Seba]

What do you think about this? 

Safety margin is displayed in light blue, just like corresponding safety margin bargraph. Same applies to energy consumption - it's displayed in white if actual energy consumption is equal or higher than average energy consumption. When your energy consumption is lower than avg, it will show up in green. Again, this is in line with energy consumption bargraph. Here's the short clip how it looks in real:

https://www.lastowski.net/stuff/screen-20231013-113556.mp4

Edited October 13, 2023 by Seba

[JPAndrade]

Dear @seba, when I first saw it, I thought the blue color might not give enough contrast. However, when I saw the clip (https://www.lastowski.net/stuff/screen-20231013-113556.mp4), it seemed good to me. Would it be possible for the safety margin bargraph to change color, to red, for example, if it were below that configured by the user? I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on your incredible contribution to the community.

[Seba]

5 minutes ago, JPAndrade said:

Dear @seba, when I first saw it, I thought the blue color might not give enough contrast. However, when I saw the clip (https://www.lastowski.net/stuff/screen-20231013-113556.mp4), it seemed good to me. Would it be possible for the safety margin bargraph to change color, to red, for example, if it were below that configured by the user? I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate you on your incredible contribution to the community.

Bargraph and value turns red when safety margin alarm is active (you can configure it in "Alarms" menu), so yes, it already works this way.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Seba

[JPAndrade]

18 hours ago, Chriull said:

The new wear os watch version is to come:

 

Thanks, @Chriull

[Chriull]

1 hour ago, JPAndrade said:

Thanks, @Chriull

You're welcome!

As it seems you have some own kind of "notification" (which by the way does not work - i got the notification just for you quoting my post) here a short guide:

 

[Planemo]

I think it's been mentioned somewhere before but I am also now missing the connection beeps when EUCW hooks up with my EX. I really, really miss this (1st world problems) as it was a like a re-assuring safety blanket for me. Can it ever be rectified? Is it an issue with Begode or the app? I know I can just look at the phone screen to check but I do miss those beeps, especially when leaving/returning to the wheel when we briefly stop and I don't pull my phone out.

[Hansolo]

This is normal, to limit communication problems between the application and BEGODE wheels, @Seba has removed the confirmation beep.

With BEGODE, in fact this confirmation beep is not one because it's a command sent by the application (official or otherwise) and it's not the wheel that responds with a beep.

Edited October 14, 2023 by Hansolo

[Planemo]

26 minutes ago, Hansolo said:

This is normal, to limit communication problems between the application and BEGODE wheels, @Seba has removed the confirmation beep.

With BEGODE, in fact this confirmation beep is not one because it's a command sent by the application (official or otherwise) and it's not the wheel that responds with a beep.

Sorry I'm a bit confused...theres shed loads of data being sent between the wheel and EUCW, but a simple confirmation beep sends the whole lot into meltdown?

If Seba deliberately removed it I'm sure theres a good reason though.

[Hansolo]

The communication protocol used by BEGODE is not the most reliable, which is why @Seba has removed all unnecessary commands to limit communication errors.

[Grimm10]

On 10/13/2023 at 5:56 AM, Seba said:

What do you think about this? 

Safety margin is displayed in light blue, just like corresponding safety margin bargraph. Same applies to energy consumption - it's displayed in white if actual energy consumption is equal or higher than average energy consumption. When your energy consumption is lower than avg, it will show up in green. Again, this is in line with energy consumption bargraph. Here's the short clip how it looks in real:

https://www.lastowski.net/stuff/screen-20231013-113556.mp4

I'd appreciate a brighter trip odometer. 👍

 

Great job on the app.

[Planemo]

12 hours ago, Hansolo said:

The communication protocol used by BEGODE is not the most reliable, which is why @Seba has removed all unnecessary commands to limit communication errors.

Again though, the handshakes required for a simple comm confirmation surely isn't a big deal? Or has the Begode protocol got worse since say the MSX? I guess only @Seba can answer this one

 

[Seba]

On 10/14/2023 at 9:10 AM, Planemo said:

Sorry I'm a bit confused...theres shed loads of data being sent between the wheel and EUCW, but a simple confirmation beep sends the whole lot into meltdown?

If Seba deliberately removed it I'm sure theres a good reason though.

In most wheels any command to change or write settings is acknowledged by the wheel with a beep, and this is a function implemented at the wheel's firmware level. Begode is different in this respect. Sending a command to change settings is not confirmed by a beep. So in order to get a similar effect to other wheels, EUC World would first send the command that is responsible for the horn effect, and then, after some short delay, send the actual setting change command. However, this was a function of the application, which, as it turned out, did not always work as it should.

For a long time, I have received reports from users that some settings (such as the changing alarm/tiltback settings) do not work properly on Begode wheels despite the fact that they hear a "confirmation beep." Simply put - they go into the settings and make a change, the wheel beeps, but still behaves as if no changes have been made. With each such request, I verified the correctness of the commands sent, including comparing the behavior of EUC World with the original Begode application, and found no irregularities (other than the horn command sent before actual setting change command). On the other hand, during my recent work on new features in Begode (when I added, among other things, support for racing mode and dynamic tiltback), I noticed that changes made in the latest Begode application are not confirmed by a beep in any way. I began to wonder - maybe it is the first beep command that causes the problem? I know that in the Begode firmwares the so-called communication stack, that is, the part of the firmware code responsible for Bluetooth communication, is very primitive, unreliable and has many flaws. This causes buffer overruns and communication errors, which are responsible for randomly generating alarms and occasional errors in the data (visible in the statistics as, for example, a top speed of 537 km/h and the like). So I removed from EUC World the horn commands sent before actual setting change commands, and already during the first beta tests it turned out that there were no problems with the change of settings.

Of course, I could have tried to leave the beep to maintain unchanged user experience, for example, by increasing the interval between the horn command and the actual setting change command, or by sending the setting change command first and the horn after a longer interval.  However, I decided that this would still not be the right solution. Why? Because there will still be no assurance that both commands will execute correctly. This is because it may happen that while the setting change command (sent first) will execute, the horn command will not. The setting change will happen, but the user will think that it didn't. Conversely, sending the horn command will be executed and the user will hear a beep, but the following change command will not execute. So the user will think that everything has been executed correctly, while this will not be the case. As you can see, the beep had nothing to do with confirming the change of wheel settings. As such, it was therefore highly misleading, which made me decide to remove it.

The only correct solution is to add a function to confirm with a beep the change or save settings directly in the wheel's firmware. I hope the Begode developers will take this into consideration.

[Seba]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:14 AM, Planemo said:

I think it's been mentioned somewhere before but I am also now missing the connection beeps when EUCW hooks up with my EX. I really, really miss this (1st world problems) as it was a like a re-assuring safety blanket for me. Can it ever be rectified? Is it an issue with Begode or the app? I know I can just look at the phone screen to check but I do miss those beeps, especially when leaving/returning to the wheel when we briefly stop and I don't pull my phone out.

You still have "Connected" beep and message in the app.

[Planemo]

8 minutes ago, Seba said:

Sending a command to change settings is not confirmed by a beep. So in order to get a similar effect to other wheels, EUC World would first send the command that is responsible for the horn effect, and then, after some short delay, send the actual setting change command. However, this was a function of the application, which, as it turned out, did not always work as it should.

Thanks for typing all that Seba, I think I got it. I must admit I have never had such problems as you describe though, on any of my wheels over the years. I guess I was lucky.

Just now, Seba said:

You still have "Connected" beep and message in the app.

Ah, my phone is always on silent so I never get any beeps from the app/phone itself!

[Robse]

A little extra: Before the latest EUC world update, my wheel (RS19) would acknowledge with a loud female voice; "The light is on" or "The light is flashing" when I pressed 2 times at the main screen,  and the light would behave accordingly. After update the sound is gone. Turning on/off/flashing still works, but any kind of audio response is gone.   Pressing 1 time activates the Horn - and this works, also with a custom sound file :-)

Edited October 15, 2023 by Robse

[Planemo]

46 minutes ago, Seba said:

As you can see, the beep had nothing to do with confirming the change of wheel settings.

Actually, just a thought, had you considered leaving the beep command JUST for wheel connection and not any of the settings? I can totally appreciate than an unreliable beep when changing settings could cause some users to think they have changed a critical setting when they haven't, but if it's just for the wheel connection then it doesn't carry the same seriousness no? Cheers

[Seba]

6 minutes ago, Robse said:

A little extra: Before the latest EUC world update, my wheel (RS19) would acknowledge with a loud female voice; "The light is on" or "The light is flashing" when I pressed 2 times at the main screen,  and the light would behave accordingly. After update the sound is gone. Turning on/off/flashing still works, but any kind of audio response is gone.

This is not a function of the wheel, but app. And this function still works properly, I just checked it

First, check that your phone does not have multimedia sounds output muted. Next, launch the app and see if you hear the "Welcome on board!" greeting when you launch the app. If not, go to the "Sounds & speech" menu and set the following options:

• "Voice prompts & messages" - enabled
• "Volume" (in "Speech" section) - 100%
• "Speech engine" - Google
• "Welcome message" - enabled
• "Speech & sounds over BT only" - disabled

If, after making the above changes to the settings and restarting the app, the greeting is audible, we can go to the settings for the so-called "quick actions" - in this case triggered by touching the main screen. Remember - touching another application screen (live data, statistics, etc.) does not trigger quick actions!

Turn on your wheel and connect it to the app. Make sure the bottom bar of the app is green or brown. Then open the app menu and go to "Gauge". Check that the "Light" action is assigned for the "Double tap action" option. Then you can exit the menu and double tap the speedometer on the main screen. A light bulb icon with the caption "Light" should appear for a while, and you should hear "Light is on/Light is flashing/Light is off" from the phone's speaker, depending on the state of the light. If you have a Bluetooth Audio device connected to your phone (such as speakers built into the wheel), make sure it is working properly (is connected, not muted etc.). For troubleshooting  purposes it's however best to use phone speaker so we can rule out BT problems.

[Robse]

36 minutes ago, Seba said:

This is not a function of the wheel, but app. And this function still works properly, I just checked it

First, check that your phone does not have multimedia sounds output muted. Next, launch the app and see if you hear the "Welcome on board!" greeting when you launch the app. If not, go to the "Sounds & speech" menu and set the following options:

• "Voice prompts & messages" - enabled
• "Volume" (in "Speech" section) - 100%
• "Speech engine" - Google
• "Welcome message" - enabled
• "Speech & sounds over BT only" - disabled

If, after making the above changes to the settings and restarting the app, the greeting is audible, we can go to the settings for the so-called "quick actions" - in this case triggered by touching the main screen. Remember - touching another application screen (live data, statistics, etc.) does not trigger quick actions!

Turn on your wheel and connect it to the app. Make sure the bottom bar of the app is green or brown. Then open the app menu and go to "Gauge". Check that the "Light" action is assigned for the "Double tap action" option. Then you can exit the menu and double tap the speedometer on the main screen. A light bulb icon with the caption "Light" should appear for a while, and you should hear "Light is on/Light is flashing/Light is off" from the phone's speaker, depending on the state of the light. If you have a Bluetooth Audio device connected to your phone (such as speakers built into the wheel), make sure it is working properly (is connected, not muted etc.). For troubleshooting  purposes it's however best to use phone speaker so we can rule out BT problems.

Thank U Seba for all the good advice

it wasn't because it mattered so much to me whether there was sound or not when you turned on the light, it was more to inform about what I experience so you get a wider range of input about your work.  But regardless of this, I've actually just tried everything you've described above, and it does not work. I don't even get the good old "welcome on board" message.  The horn works, both with and without BT connection, and everything else works. I can't say how with all the other possible notifications you can switch on. I have mostly turned it off as I am the kind of "rider" who feels best about mee myself keeping an eye on speed, surroundings, road condicion, battery capacity etc. and adapting my riding accordingly.    And it's not easy to troubleshoot apps in these days either (which you shouldn't waste too much time on either ) It might as well be my phone, just upgraded to Android (sh*t) 13, or other apps on the phone , or whatever that in the quest for privacy has been turned off / disabled that causes the problem.

And by the way, as you yourself noticed in my original screenshots, the upgrade to Android 13 means that Google has just thought that now there was a need for all users to be burdened with a new systemfont - which then completely changes how all apps that are based on the system font from Android make themselves visible on the screen.   Again, something that no one asked for, and which for my own part gives nothing but trouble again and again. Thank you so much, Guuurgle (!)  And that has nothing to do with the great work you do, but this means that app developers at certain points have to listen to people who complain, without it actually being their fault.

[Seba]

4 minutes ago, Robse said:

it wasn't because it mattered so much to me whether there was sound or not when you turned on the light, it was more to inform about what I experience so you get a wider range of input about your work.  But regardless of this, I've actually just tried everything you've described above, and it does not work. I don't even get the good old "welcome on board" message.  The horn works, both with and without BT connection, and everything else works. I can't say how with all the other possible notifications you can switch on. I have mostly turned it off as I am the kind of "rider" who feels best about mee myself keeping an eye on speed, surroundings, road condicion, battery capacity etc. and adapting my riding accordingly.    And it's not easy to troubleshoot apps in these days either (which you shouldn't waste too much time on either ) It might as well be my phone, just upgraded to Android (sh*t) 13, or other apps on the phone , or whatever that in the quest for privacy has been turned off / disabled that causes the problem.

If you have a Samsung phone, it might be that it is configured to use Samsung TTS engine which tends to be problematic. In this case it's best to switch to Google TTS by opening Android settings, navigating to "General management", "Text-to"speech" and setting "Preferred engine" to "Speech Recognition and Sytnhesis from Google" (or "Google TTS" etc.).

8 minutes ago, Robse said:

And by the way, as you yourself noticed in my original screenshots, the upgrade to Android 13 means that Google has just thought that now there was a need for all users to be burdened with a new systemfont - which then completely changes how all apps that are based on the system font from Android make themselves visible on the screen.   Again, something that no one asked for, and which for my own part gives nothing but trouble again and again. Thank you so much, Guuurgle (!)  And that has nothing to do with the great work you do, but this means that app developers at certain points have to listen to people who complain, without it actually being their fault.

It's not a problem with Android 13, but more a problem with system overlay/launcher that usually is phone manufacturer specific. I have three Android 13 phones (Google Pixel 6, Samsung Galaxy A54 (both used specifically for EUCW development) and Samsung Galaxy S23 Ultra (my personal phone). All three phones uses the same font face.

[skunkmonkey]

5 hours ago, Seba said:

In most wheels any command to change or write settings is acknowledged by the wheel with a beep, and this is a function implemented at the wheel's firmware level. Begode is different in this respect. Sending a command to change settings is not confirmed by a beep. So in order to get a similar effect to other wheels, EUC World would first send the command that is responsible for the horn effect, and then, after some short delay, send the actual setting change command.

I think you made the right choice in removing the beep then. A beep when there can be no confirmation that the setting was actually applied would only give the user a false sense of security, and if the beep is actually causing problems with the communication stack then it's better to just remove it entirely. Maybe Begode needs to upgrade their flint & steel approach to manufacturing.