i cant ride my veteran sherman max in my city

[Mono]

On 10/4/2023 at 3:25 PM, MetricUSA said:

Actually that should not matter .... A car is not limited either... 

right, and for sure you get a big fine if you drive one without registration, insurance and driver license and could well go to prison if you continue to do so.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Mono

[Funky]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

right, and for sure you get a big fine if you drive one without registration, insurance and driver license and could well go to prison if you continue to do so.

And? It's not our fault that government is still living in stone age. If you are riding on streets with cars - EUC also should have same thing.. Registrations, Insurance, Driver license..

Those old farts don't care about "pevs" and all that shet. They would simply sit pencil up their ass and do nothing and change nothing. Only if they gain some benefits they will do something. Aka steal more money from civilians.. Speed limitation is their "job well done" moto.. No need to change anything or make new laws, etc.. Lazy shit-bags.

There should be 2 categories. Fast/big ones that ride with cars - same laws as cars/motorcycles.(Duh...) Small/lightweight that don't go that fast and ride mostly sidewalks - no documentation what so ever. Same as regular old fashion bicycle. (Or rental scooters.. Anyone can use them.)

Edited November 2, 2023 by Funky

[gon2fast]

Has law enforcement explained the danger/risks of having a PEV that can go over their defined speed limit? I agree with Funky, I would call out the top speed of cars or motorcycles and have them explain why those vehicles are justified. Or... maybe getting into debates with law enforcement is not a good idea. Maybe take this debate to your local government and side step the police.

[Munirider]

Have you yourself had any luck arguing with law enforcement?

Doesn't mater if the law makes any sense to the cops, all laws are enforced selectively and at best randomly the cop decides when and who they enforce them on. If they decide it's going to be you then it sucks to be you. 

 

[Munirider]

I think your only hope is to either get the ordinance changed or if your wheel can have a free spin limit added to it.

Trying to convince cops to not enforce it is a no win situation.

[skunkmonkey]

It's terrible that any cop would even bother anyone unless they were riding in an unsafe manner. Who cares if it's speed limited? Is his car speed limited? I doubt it. Maybe he should give himself a ticket for owning a car that can do over 25kph. Laws like that are beyond ridiculous, and just showcase the ignorance of the lawmakers.

[Mono]

14 hours ago, Funky said:

And?

My point was: using cars as an example to show "the absurdity" that one gets fined for riding a speed unlimited EUC is a non-starter.

14 hours ago, Funky said:

It's not our fault that government is still living in stone age. If you are riding on streets with cars - EUC also should have same thing.. Registrations, Insurance, Driver license..

My comment was not about a world we may desire to live in, but the world we do actually live in and which the OP encountered and in which s/he neither has a registration nor (I assume) insurance nor a licence for riding a one-wheeled motorized vehicle.

@yerin, if you don't want the speed anyways, you could just buy a smaller wheel. Like this, you would much more likely stay below the radar of the police.

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Mono

[techyiam]

56 minutes ago, Mono said:

citing cars as an example for the "absurdity that speed unlimited EUCs are illegal" is a non-starter.

I suspect that many, if not most citizens would disagree with you on that, if they knew.

However, in many locales, there are few euc riders, and even fewer that do do stupid shit so that the public doesn't really notice. Because of this, and the fact that currently, the number of serious accidents are few, relatively speaking, I don't think euc's are on the regulatory bodies' radar, on their own.

Having said that, unfortunately though, local governments can regulate PEV's as whole, and euc's can get included. 

Edited November 3, 2023 by techyiam

[woke rider]

On 10/2/2023 at 8:53 PM, Cerbera said:

It is especially frustrating and unfair because people are still allowed to drive cars and motorbikes that will go faster than the maximum speed limits in any country, and incidents involving those are (correctly) judged on what speed they were actually being driven at the time, rather than what they can potentially

That's a fantastic observation, @Cerbera

lol, @yerin, your EUC is capable of going 45 mph and the cop is giving you a ticket, that sounds totally reasonable given the potential dangers and the code that's on the books. I do feel your pain though, it seems like the tide is turning against us throughout the world. Just sell your Sherman and buy a V5, it sucks, but what else can you do?

[Toad]

On 10/5/2023 at 11:47 AM, GothamMike said:

Manufacturers need a setting to prevent freespin at at changeable speed.

Then you take it to the local police station for a demo. 

Wheel engineers should do something, but let us keep in mind that the spin-up when off the ground is (intended as) a safety feature. After a wheel loses traction, spin-up buys a little time to regain grip and avoid a crash.* Of course, it would be better not to spin up when there's no pilot to support. However, detection of such a case is elusive, as for one reason or another, in case of loss-of-traction the wheel might not be supporting the pilot.

*My info on the subject comes from the Segway era. Complaints about spin-up were answered with, "well, you'd really not like it otherwise. We tried it!".

[woke rider]

It seems like the officer had done some research about EUC's because he knew about free spin, and because he knew the Sherman was incredibly fast. @yerin might be able to get a V8 or even a V10, just not a Sherman. I'm curious to know what would happen if you bought a V8 and set the speed alarm for the speed limit there in Spain if they would dismiss your ticket since you are trying to comply with the law and let you ride. I have my alarm set for the speed limit here, 15mph, so if there was any doubt I could at least prove that I'm trying to obey. Maybe if you set the alarm for the speed limit on your Sherman for the speed limit, and took it down to the police department, they might dismiss your ticket and let you ride? Here in the states, if we take a ticket down to the police department and prove that we fixed something, we can sometimes get our tickets dismissed without actually going to court.

Edited November 4, 2023 by earthtwin
one more thing

[skunkmonkey]

Honestly I don't think this is an issue for manufacturers or app designers. The real problem is that law makers need to be educated. Sadly that's not an easy thing to do. Before I started riding electric scooters I had the same ignorant view that many lawmakers do. I thought those things were super dangerous. It wasn't until my wife talked me into buying one to save money that I learned that they weren't any more dangerous than a bicycle. You can ride a bicycle like an idiot and have lots of danger, or you can ride sanely and be as safe as any vehicle can be on the road. It's all up to the rider. They are definitely more safe than motorcycles because scooters and EUC's don't have to mix it up with traffic. We can ride in the bike lane (or sidewalk depending on your country.) Right-hand turners, and car doors being opened quickly are our biggest threats, and those can be mitigated with vigilance, spatial awareness, and emergency maneuver practice.

How do you educate law makers? That's the million dollar question. Short of distributors (or rich enthusiast) sending them scooters to ride with an explanation of how to ride safely, and telling them of the emergency maneuver practice that they should use prior to riding in the bike lane, I'm not sure what can be done. It would be even harder when it comes to EUC's since there is such a huge learning curve, and they ARE going to fall like crazy while they learn on an EUC, whereas with a scooter it's doubtful they would fall even practicing the emergency maneuvers if they know the theory first (assuming they have ridden a bicycle before).

It should be noted that my ignorant view of electric scooters still persisted for a few weeks after I began riding them. I continued to believe them to be unsafe, and kept to low speeds. My wife dove in head first, and was fully enjoying them from the get-go, so everyone is different I guess. It's funny because I'm the more adventurous of the two. I'm the definite risk taker, so it was funny to see the juxtaposition in this case.

Edited November 4, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[woke rider]

23 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

You can ride a bicycle like an idiot and have lots of danger, or you can ride sanely and be as safe as any vehicle can be on the road. It's all up to the rider. They are definitely more safe than motorcycles because scooters and EUC's don't have to mix it up with traffic. We can ride in the bike lane (or sidewalk depending on your country.)

That's true and false. While I was learning to ride my Z10 I had to submit in order to have perfect control. At first I rode on the edge of safety always trying to force my EUC past it's limitations, barely having balance and avoiding dangers. I had to submit to the response of my wheel in order to gain dominance over the power that it's capable of. I certainly don't have to push it because I can step off for traffic and pedestrian very easily by riding sanely and safely. Of course I look around to take advantage of not having to step off if I can just do a circle to survey the traffic conditions and then jam across road. EUC riding isn't for everyone because some people aren't aware enough of their environments to ride safely. I have to mix it up with traffic all the time because I'm not quite a vehicle and not quite a pedestrian, yet my wheel provides me complete dominance over my traffic environment.

[skunkmonkey]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

EUC riding isn't for everyone because some people aren't aware enough of their environments to ride safely

Yeah I agree that EUC's are definitely a much more skill based vehicle than a scooter or bicycle. That doesn't mean they can't be ridden safely per say, it just means that you have to be a lot more skilled to ride them safely. There are also inherent risks that have to be understood and accepted when it comes to EUC's such as the fact that a cutout or other electronic failure is going to result in a crash guaranteed, whereas with a scooter or bicycle you would just coast to a stop.

This is why I wouldn't take the approach of trying to convince lawmakers that PEV's are safe by sending them EUC's to learn on. I'd send them electric scooters instead.

[Funky]

What skill is there riding euc? You simply stand and ride like zombie. At morning you can almost fall asleep while riding.  (Ofc if you got smooth sidewalks..)

After you have learned stepping on/off - it's smooth sailing. (At least it was from my experience.) Most tricky part is free-mounting the thing, when you just started out.

1-2 weeks later you don't even need to hold euc, or look at it while mounting. You just jump up and zip away. Heck you don't even lean euc against knee or sideways that much anymore, because mounting happens that fast.

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

What skill is there riding euc?

Forward planning mainly, I'd say. I don't think I can ever really ride complacently on my wheel and still feel safe. Between constantly scanning the upcoming ground for hazards, checking all around me for pedestrians, animals and traffic (and trying to predict what all of the above might do next), paying attention to what the wind is doing, checking my mirrors, and choosing optimal ride paths, not to mention constantly monitoring the various sounds the wheel / app makes, I'd say I have my work cut out pretty much every second I ride that thing ! And I think that's probably as much of a 'skill' as anything we might be doing to remain upright and under control !

Edited November 4, 2023 by Cerbera

[skunkmonkey]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

What skill is there riding euc?

Every tiny thing you want to do on an EUC is a new skill that you need to learn. Here are some examples of separate and distinct skills in roughly the order that I learned them:

• Balancing on the EUC
• Doing wide turns
• Hard braking
• Doing tight turns
• Starting without a wall / pole
• Changing terrains
• Off-road
• Tighter high speed turns
• Starting on a hill
• Riding in wind
• Seated riding at low speeds
• Transitioning to seated riding at high speeds

I've been riding now for about 3 months and I still don't feel like I have learned all that I need to. I feel very comfortable on my wheel, and it's second nature for the most part, but there's still a ton that I can work on and improve. I'm still working on transitioning to seated riding at high speeds. I really like @Cerbera's comment. When dealing with both scooters and EUC's it extremely important to anticipate possible problems and plan contingencies. That has saved my life on multiple counts, and car drivers are so bad that they seem to want to actively try to kill you sometimes.

Edited November 4, 2023 by skunkmonkey

[Hellkitten]

1 hour ago, Funky said:

What skill is there riding euc? You simply stand and ride like zombie.

One of my favourite things about a wheel is there are always more skills to learn and ways to improve your riding abilities. Stop thinking like a zombie and definitely don’t ride like one. 🧟‍♂️🧟

[BKW]

It sucks to hear how countries/cities make laws that essentially ban these types of vehicles. If it's a speed issue, then I don't see a problem if the rider is simply riding within the speed limit, as you can do this with any legal PEV. I literally do not understand why you can ride an e-bike that can go over the speed limit, but you cannot ride an EUC given the same scenario. It makes very little sense to me.

Unfortunately, if the cops are prejudice against riding EUCs, even within the speed limit, then there's not much I could suggest you do, other than talk to the local law authorities and try to come to some kind of agreement that allows you to ride them (however that would work). If you talk to the local law enforcers/officials and they are not willing to do anything about it then unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it, unless you move somewhere that permits it?

[Funky]

1 hour ago, Cerbera said:

Forward planning mainly, I'd say. I don't think I can ever really ride complacently on my wheel and still feel safe. Between constantly scanning the upcoming ground for hazards, checking all around me for pedestrians, animals and traffic (and trying to predict what all of the above might do next), paying attention to what the wind is doing, checking my mirrors, and choosing optimal ride paths, not to mention constantly monitoring the various sounds the wheel / app makes, I'd say I have my work cut out pretty much every second I ride that thing ! And I think that's probably as much of a 'skill' as anything we might be doing to remain upright and under control !

Same thing can be said riding scooter and bicycle... No? Only difference EUC can stop working one second making you crash.

I have to do almost zero of that.. Because i ride on sidewalks where there is almost no people. At morning i see maybe ~3 people all the way to job.

My biggest "unsafe" feeling is when going over street, where cars ride.  (Aka street crossing.) Also i ride around 25km/h speed i don't need to look at app or need to listen to my wheel much. As it never makes any alarms. (I don't even turn the app on while commuting to/back work.)

1 hour ago, skunkmonkey said:

Every tiny thing you want to do on an EUC is a new skill that you need to learn. Here are some examples of separate and distinct skills in roughly the order that I learned them:

• Balancing on the EUC
• Doing wide turns
• Hard braking
• Doing tight turns
• Starting without a wall / pole
• Changing terrains
• Off-road
• Tighter high speed turns
• Starting on a hill
• Riding in wind
• Seated riding at low speeds
• Transitioning to seated riding at high speeds

I've been riding now for about 3 months and I still don't feel like I have learned all that I need to. I feel very comfortable on my wheel, and it's second nature for the most part, but there's still a ton that I can work on and improve. I'm still working on transitioning to seated riding at high speeds. I really like @Cerbera's comment. When dealing with both scooters and EUC's it extremely important to anticipate possible problems and plan contingencies. That has saved my life on multiple counts, and car drivers are so bad that they seem to want to actively try to kill you sometimes.

I could do that without learning? Doh i already started out free-mounting the euc. I didn't use fence or poles. Took me 4 days till i could ride. As i was trying to mount the thing.  Looking back if i would have used fence or pole i could have been riding much faster. As i had problem start going. I jumped on wheel (both feet) and lost balance after 1-2 seconds. (My problem was - i wasn't leaning forwards.) 4th day i said DUCK it and did superman lean. That got me going. After 30 minutes i was doing "8" and going in circles left right.

Balancing.. I did that before i learned to lean. (As i was trying to free mount it, before riding once.)

Turns - emm.. Idk.. It simply turns.. More weight on one pedal - turn? Simple. (I simply did that - no thinking needed.)

Hard braking i did at my first week. (Aka sitting braking - where you almost fall on your ass as you're braking.) Yes i did have wobbles doing that at first. (Naturally you should learn it first..)

Starting to ride - as i said before, i was free mounting before riding once.

Starting on hill - i got bridle where you need to stop and start going (The highway pass over) I could stop without problem and start going mid incline. Is it supposed to be hard?

I learned at off-road.. Grassy/sandy forest pathway. First time i went on smooth asphalt i was like: WTF it feels like i'm gliding. No bumps, no nothing.  I was so easy riding on smooth roads.

Wind riding? You simply sway more wind way. Ready to rebalance any moment wind gives up.

Seated riding - 18xl to small/short..

 

I don't know, looking back aside of stepping on/off - i didn't have to learn anything.

1 hour ago, Hellkitten said:

One of my favourite things about a wheel is there are always more skills to learn and ways to improve your riding abilities. Stop thinking like a zombie and definitely don’t ride like one. 🧟‍♂️🧟

I was just saying it feels like that at mornings - while riding to job on smooth roads.  Especially while riding on sidewalks, where you see maybe 1-3 people whole way to job. Also doesn't help that path is almost straight line.  

Edited November 4, 2023 by Funky

[Cerbera]

5 minutes ago, Funky said:

Same thing can be said riding scooter and bicycle... No?

Yip, but possibly not to the same degree in all aspects. We have no second wheel to keep us stable while we get through mud / wet leaves etc etc, and we are also constantly monitoring and adjusting lean angle, which the former don't have to worry about anywhere near so much...

Edited November 4, 2023 by Cerbera

[Funky]

10 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

Yip, but possibly not to the same degree in all aspects. We have no second wheel to keep us stable while we get through mud / wet leaves etc etc, and we are also constantly monitoring and adjusting lean angle, which the former don't have to worry about anywhere near so much...

I did add something in before post. <3

I do agree euc have more "skill" needed to do the same. But overall it's the same.

Can't say much about "lean angle" as i ride 1/3 feet over pedal making my ankle same position as "L" brackets. Meaning i ride almost completely straight. Also i go one speed all the time almost.. So it also helps that i don't need to lean more or less. I don't even bend my knees while riding to job. As i take same path and already know all the "bumps". At least i don't bend them like when i was going 40km/h speeds on "fun" rides..

If i compare euc to bicycle. It's the same. Only negative for euc, if it stops working - faceplant. (I used to ride to job 10 years on bicycle. Now 3 years on euc - no difference.)

[skunkmonkey]

2 hours ago, Funky said:

If i compare euc to bicycle. It's the same. Only negative for euc, if it stops working - faceplant.

I think that you are probably one of those rare talented people that picks physical skills up pretty quick, or you had some cross-skills that helped you learn more quickly than most. I'm not sure what cross-skills exist for EUC's, maybe ice skating, or ballet?

Most people that I've heard of take weeks or months to learn to ride an EUC. It took me about a week to learn to free-mount, and I thought I picked it up very quickly. Another thing to consider is both the type of EUC that you ride, and the speeds that you ride. It sounds like you ride very slowly. I'm not a speed demon, but I don't think I would be happy riding at 25kph. As a casual commuter I tend to ride about twice that. I don't know what EUC you learned on, but maybe it didn't have suspension? I've heard that can help since the pedals are lower to the ground, and if you start with a light wheel especially it can help you learn faster.

I'll respectfully agree to disagree when it comes to saying that an EUC and a bicycle are the same skill wise. I was able to learn to ride a bicycle within an hour or two, and I was doing jumps within the first week. I still haven't tried jumping my EUC after 3 months, and I don't think I'm ready for that just yet.

[Funky]

31 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

I think that you are probably one of those rare talented people that picks physical skills up pretty quick, or you had some cross-skills that helped you learn more quickly than most. I'm not sure what cross-skills exist for EUC's, maybe ice skating, or ballet?

Most people that I've heard of take weeks or months to learn to ride an EUC. It took me about a week to learn to free-mount, and I thought I picked it up very quickly. Another thing to consider is both the type of EUC that you ride, and the speeds that you ride. It sounds like you ride very slowly. I'm not a speed demon, but I don't think I would be happy riding at 25kph. As a casual commuter I tend to ride about twice that. I don't know what EUC you learned on, but maybe it didn't have suspension? I've heard that can help since the pedals are lower to the ground, and if you start with a light wheel especially it can help you learn faster.

I'll respectfully agree to disagree when it comes to saying that an EUC and a bicycle are the same skill wise. I was able to learn to ride a bicycle within an hour or two, and I was doing jumps within the first week. I still haven't tried jumping my EUC after 3 months, and I don't think I'm ready for that just yet.

I'm fat slob that doesn't enjoy any "outside" activities. Need to say more? 

All i can say riding gave me zero problems. Sure i had speed wobbles first month or so. But after 300km ridden till tis very day i haven't had single one. The mounting gave me problem, because i wasn't leaning forwards enough. Wheel didn't want to move forwards. Making me lose balance and step off pedals. (Yes i was standing both feet on pedals balancing in place.) In my brain i thought you need to be available to step on/off wheel, before attempting to even ride once.

I learned on my dads ks16s. When i bought my own 18xl i didn't even feel much difference ridding it. Sure it needed more lean and things like that to get it moving, but personally i like it over 16s - which was small and twitchy as hell.

I think 25-30km/h speeds are okay riding on sidewalks... When i was going on "fun" ride i was often going 40km/h. (Ofc not around people.) Also i personally don't wanna go faster than 25km/h, BECAUSE i'm not gearing up for my job commute. I only wear wrist guards. When i was going on "fun" rides i added full face helmet and knee guards. 

Heck i didn't have any gear while learning.. I only got helmet when i started to ride faster.  My dad doesn't use any gear what so ever and been riding a lot more than me. Sure have fallen same as me. But meh.. I don't wanna use helmet on 3km trip to work. (500m till train, ~2km from train to job.) That's why i ride slower.. If i needed to ride 10-20km daily. Sure i would gear up more..

As i don't go for "fun" rides anymore. I'm searching for smaller euc.. Because i don't need the 1554Wh battery size and 50km/h top speed for my work commute. I would love to get something lighter. Sadly don't like anything the market has at the moment. Maybe Begode A2, if nothing better comes out someday.

Fun fact my 18xl pedals sit 2cm higher from ground than it originally had them. Thanks to my aftermarket pedals.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Funky

[Funky]

48 minutes ago, skunkmonkey said:

and I was doing jumps within the first week. I still haven't tried jumping my EUC after 3 months, and I don't think I'm ready for that just yet.

We where talking about ridding.. No-one said anything about dirt rally. I don't even jump curbs. Because i'm scared i will break/bend axle. (Sure i would love to ride stairs and do jumps.. I'm scared of braking my euc..) So i don't do it. Because i know i will break it easily! (I already had broken axle weld from doing pendulum..............) 

I once rode/jumped of a big curb by mistake. (Had not enough time to brake, so i said duck it and went off. Luckily most of landing impact went into my bent knees.) I was more scared about braking my euc, than anything else.

Idk how high jumps we are talking here..  

Edited November 4, 2023 by Funky