The Brahan Seer Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 I joined the forum 2 years ago today. At the time there was about 16000 members. There are now close to 20000. Just wondering where are we on this graph of adoption: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, The Brahan Seer said: I joined the forum 2 years ago today. At the time there was about 16000 members. There are now close to 20000. Members come and go - dead accounts are not removed. So this should be no activity measurement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 1 hour ago, Chriull said: So this should be no activity measurement. Sorry I should have been more clear. I'm not bothered about the numbers on the forum but the adoption of EUC's in society and at what pace that is increasing. The number of members should help give a hint of this whether or not they are active. The topic is really just asking what do you think? and what is your view since there will be people who have been on this forum or riding EUC's for a long time. Just curious. But I'm not expecting anyone to crunch the actual numbers. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 I've been riding EUCs for about 5 years now, but mostly as a commuter at about 50 miles a week. Sometimes I do a 10-15 mile ride on the weekends for fun. I still encounter tons of people that "have never seen one of these things before". So the chart's "market penetration" doesn't seem accurate. It's still a new thing. And, at less than 6K miles on 4 wheels, with most local group rides wanting people with the biggest fastest wheel (I don't go), I am probably way behind the curve on the latest and greatest stuff and considered a "beginner" in any official group capacities. Much like when I rode motorcycles. I had been riding since I was a kid, had 7 different motorcycles, and did most of the maintenance on them myself. But since I didn't go to the track the local guys considered me a "beginner". 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 36 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: So the chart's "market penetration" doesn't seem accurate. It's still a new thing. The chart shows the adoption curve on how anything become popular. This applies to any new product. So you are saying its still a new thing then from the graph we are currently at the early adopters stage first 10%? somewhere between 1 and 5 on the time scale. I myself think we are at around 5 as a guess. So to me number 1 is around 1970ish first examples, 3 is say 2012-16 when Kingsong et al established and started making EUC's. 4 is around 2017-2021 and 5 around 2022 onwards but others may think totally different and think we are at 6-7 already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) I live in a town of 13,000 odd people. When I started riding, around 10 years ago I was the only person in the town with a wheel. As far as I can tell, all this time later, despite there being a proliferation of cheapy scooter type PEVs around now, much to my surprise I am STILL the only person in town with an EUC ! Despite my constant EUC evangelising at anyone who would listen, and lots of attention and interest in mine from locals over the years - I guess the amount of people interested by them greatly outnumbers the people that would consider riding one ! There is one other person with a Onewheel, who I have only ever seen out on it one single time, which I don't really count ! In fact, looking on EUC World, which seems a reasonable indication of local numbers, I have to go at least 50 miles in any direction before I find the next person with a monowheel. There are about 10 wheels across the whole of the South of England as far as I can tell, which really isn't many ! I am amazed more people haven't been picking up on these TBH; it must be the prohibitively high entry prices I guess. And I reckon that puts us right back nearer '3' on the chart above - only just off the starting blocks... We should enjoy that bit as long as we can, 'cause at the moment we don't have the numbers to worry authorities too much, so it is relatively easy for them to let us get on with it. Edited June 5, 2023 by Cerbera 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Circuitmage Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 @The Brahan Seer I believe there are 2 ways of looking at this; 1) Potential market penetration. If we were to see everyone in the world get these that could, then yes, I would agree we are at about the "5" mark. A lot of people don't know about these, or think they are too difficult to learn to ride (which they are not). 2) Due to the uniqueness of the transportation, skill set required (basically you need motorcycle riding skills), cost and availability, then I would say we are more at the "7" or "8" mark. In general, EUC's are only useful as short to medium range transportation for most people (any commute of any significance would prohibit their use) and are scary enough to keep people away even if they are aware of them. I would say 90% of the people that comment on mine are scared of them...saying they would break their back. I often test people that comment in any way by offering to let them try it out. Most people (~90%) refuse. I would lean more toward #2 as an estimate of market penetration. I also enjoy this as keeping them in a "grey" area of the the law. Where I am, they do not crack down on people riding these unless you cause an accident. I have seen much more signage though banning "any motorized vehicle" off trails here, as scooters have caused issues for people. And, finally, the other options are much more popular for many people; 2 wheel scooter, e-bikes, etc. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brahan Seer Posted June 5, 2023 Author Share Posted June 5, 2023 Looking at the comments so far I have to agree. I am the only one in my town with one too despite my best efforts. Its looking like it might take a long time for any adoption and maybe it will never be very high at all. But tech advances and safety products should help along the way. I think the elephant in the room for me is how easy it is to crash due to over lean or fault and we do see a high number of injuries and broken bones. The day we can mitigate this will vastly improve our chances of people giving it a go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Circuitmage said: I have seen much more signage though banning "any motorized vehicle" off trails here, as scooters have caused issues for people. Yes, over here too. Just yesterday, at the local country park, where a shiny new mini track has just been built, and me immediately excluded from ! To be fair, even if I wasn't electric I am probably too tall anyway But alas the same is true of bigger one they also built just down the path... ...which seems a shame. Or would do if they hadn't covered the entire thing in very fine gravel, making this much more sketchy for wheel like mine. I didn't go on it in the end. Edited June 5, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 (edited) For whatever reason, the average person would not be interested in learning to ride an electric wheel. I don't know what traits are indicative of a person who would enjoy riding electric wheels. It almost seem like that there are those who do, and they really get into electric wheels. Then all others don't want to ride them. I think there are very few in the middle ground. I thought electric wheels were catching on. But I don't see more more people riding electric wheels along the routes that I ride. It remains to be a rare sight. Even at our local university, there appears to be maybe just a few students who ride electric wheels to school. However, it seems like onewheels are even rarer on the road in places where I ride. But I am glad there still are enough riders around the globe to keep the manufacturers afloat,. Edited June 5, 2023 by techyiam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellkitten Posted June 5, 2023 Share Posted June 5, 2023 Toronto Canada has a decent sized mixed PEV community. I’ve been very fortunate to end up in a city with so many riders. I’d say most people are on scooters of some sort, but some have added or switched to eucs. Even though scooters are technically illegal, but it’s not enforced. I think covid lockdowns pushed a lot of people into pevs. It’s definitely growing here, two of our local stores have expanded dramatically. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterwheel Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 I don't recommend this site to new riders. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted June 6, 2023 Share Posted June 6, 2023 (edited) On 6/5/2023 at 7:26 PM, Cerbera said: I live in a town of 13,000 odd people. When I started riding, around 10 years ago I was the only person in the town with a wheel. As far as I can tell, all this time later, despite there being a proliferation of cheapy scooter type PEVs around now, much to my surprise I am STILL the only person in town with an EUC ! Despite my constant EUC evangelising at anyone who would listen, and lots of attention and interest in mine from locals over the years - I guess the amount of people interested by them greatly outnumbers the people that would consider riding one ! There is one other person with a Onewheel, who I have only ever seen out on it one single time, which I don't really count ! In fact, looking on EUC World, which seems a reasonable indication of local numbers, I have to go at least 50 miles in any direction before I find the next person with a monowheel. There are about 10 wheels across the whole of the South of England as far as I can tell, which really isn't many ! I am amazed more people haven't been picking up on these TBH; it must be the prohibitively high entry prices I guess. And I reckon that puts us right back nearer '3' on the chart above - only just off the starting blocks... We should enjoy that bit as long as we can, 'cause at the moment we don't have the numbers to worry authorities too much, so it is relatively easy for them to let us get on with it. I live in 12.000 pop city. And there's only 4-5 EUC riders here 2 of are me and my dad. And again only small wheels i have seen. Doh i have noticed much more personal E-scooters around.. Most people still look at my as an i'm alien. It simply comes down to price. E-scooters cost 500-1000$. EUC cost 1000-5000$. Also the risk of faceplanting any moment when EUC turns off. Scooters don't have that danger and no learning stage. On 6/5/2023 at 8:47 PM, techyiam said: For whatever reason, the average person would not be interested in learning to ride an electric wheel. I don't know what traits are indicative of a person who would enjoy riding electric wheels. It almost seem like that there are those who do, and they really get into electric wheels. Then all others don't want to ride them. I think there are very few in the middle ground. I'm in the middle group. Only reason i got myself EUC, was because i learned to ride on my dads wheel. I at start wanted to get myself a E-Scooter. After i learned to ride, it simply wasn't worth getting E-Scooter. Speed/Range/Size EUC wins. BUT price to safety E-Scooters are simply better and no learning stage. Most people will buy E-Scooter simply for that alone, also you don't need to gear up on Scooter at all. (I have not seen one person with helmet/knee/wrist guards riding scooter EVER.) Doh if you go slow enough - you still can choose not to wear any gear on EUC. But i personally don't leave my house without wrist guards, even at those "slow rides". Price, safety, ease of use - Scooter. Cost, fun, size, more dangerous - EUC. Most people will buy pev simply to go from A to B. Gearing up, learning to ride, so on is a hassle.. Most will buy Scooter and be done. (Talking about the riders who don't ride with cars.. And don't go F1 speeds..) Edited June 6, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 11 hours ago, Funky said: I'm in the middle group. Only reason i got myself EUC, was because i learned to ride on my dads wheel. I at start wanted to get myself a E-Scooter. After i learned to ride, it simply wasn't worth getting E-Scooter. Speed/Range/Size EUC wins. BUT price to safety E-Scooters are simply better and no learning stage. I now see it from my current view. The way I look at it is that you were willing to learn to ride it on your own, then you concluded that an electric wheel would be best value among competing Pev's. To me, this is enough to put you in the first group. In contrast, here is one example. There are two siblings, one has been open to learn to ride an electric wheel. Both learned to ice skate, roller skate, and bicycle at an early age and rode across town numerous times. The 2nd sibling who doesn't care for electric wheels actually learnt to ride it, but has no interest to ride it after that. An appropriate electric wheel is available, but the interest is just not there. For myself, once I learnt about the existence of electric wheels, I thought it would be a cool device to try out, and they seem to make a lot of sense. I also thought e-bikes and e-scooters were not as good value. I actually spend some time looking at e-bikes. When I decided to buy an electric wheel, I didn't know if I would be able to ride it. Also, I didn't know whether the police would give out tickets for riding them. But I did see a few riding about, and our province was showing interest to go green and get more people on pev's. My plan was to give it a good go at it, and then see what unfolds. Basically, there was a drive, or an interest from within. Edited June 7, 2023 by techyiam 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, techyiam said: I now see it from my current view. The way I look at it is that you were willing to learn to ride it on your own, then you concluded that an electric wheel would be best value among competing Pev's. To me, this is enough to put you in the first group. In contrast, here is one example. There are two siblings, one has been open to learn to ride an electric wheel. Both learned to ice skate, roller skate, and bicycle at an early age and rode across town numerous times. The 2nd sibling who doesn't care for electric wheels actually learnt to ride it, but has no interest to ride it after that. An appropriate electric wheel is available, but the interest is just not there. For myself, once I learnt about the existence of electric wheels, I thought it would be a cool device to try out, and they seem to make a lot of sense. I also thought e-bikes and e-scooters were not as good value. I actually spend some time looking at e-bikes. When I decided to buy an electric wheel, I didn't know if I would be able to ride it. Also, I didn't know whether the police would give out tickets for riding them. But I did see a few riding about, and our province was showing interest to go green and get more people on pev's. My plan was to give it a good go at it, and then see what unfolds. Basically, there was a drive, or an interest from within. I still put myself in middle group. (I don't really care about it. It's the same as my old bike to me.) A device to get from A to B point, just faster and easier. I don't really ride it even. Maybe once a week i go for "fun" ride. Otherwise it sits in my "Hot-Box". Aside from running 1-3km small errands. If my dad didn't get one for himself first.. I would never even consider getting one myself. ~1 week later after i could ride. I only them started to think about buying one myself. And i had option of buying 700$ Scooter vs euc+gear for 2500$. Most people would buy the 700$ scooter. (Reason i went with EUC was it's small form factor.) The only reason i learned to ride is again because my dad got himself one. Otherwise i would have not bought it. Yes EUC's are more fun to ride, but end of day it's simple device as all other pev's. Getting from A to B point. Edited June 7, 2023 by Funky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 55 minutes ago, Funky said: If my dad didn't get one for himself first.. I would never even consider getting one myself. ~1 week later after i could ride. I only them started to think about buying one myself. And i had option of buying 700$ Scooter vs euc+gear for 2500$. Most people would buy the 700$ scooter. (Reason i went with EUC was it's small form factor.) At the time, were you looking for a PEV to replace your old bike? Or, if your dad hadn't bought an electric wheel, would you have continued to ride your old bike? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Robse Posted June 7, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted June 7, 2023 I do not think that the curve shown for market penetration / saturation can be used for EUC in particular. Because: Regardless of what people say, learning is not easy. It may well be that you can learn to ride in 3 days (myself), but I would claim that you do not ride safely and with experience until you have done 5000 - 10000 km, and tried to crash a few times. In addition to the high purchase price - there is also safety equipment, as well as the time it takes to put it on, take it off and store it. And then the most important thing, which I think keeps most people from trying; It's the hidden knowledge that the only thing keeping you going is some crappy Chinese electronics. If this somehow fails, then it's head straight into the asphalt no mercy. In the past year I have been riding around +6000 km in my local area. Met many interested people, talked to them, saw the excitement in their eyes, someone even asked where you could buy something like "this", And then the famous two questions: Is it difficult to learn, and is it not dangerous?. And if you have to be honest, and you have to, then you cannot` say that it is without dangers. And there you go. In all that time, I have met a single EUC rider, 2 electric skateboards, and a couple of one-wheels. That is all. And it doesn't look like anything has changed over the last 2 years. But I see a whole lot of electric bikes. And why? Because people can take them out of the box and ride. No hassle, no danger. I don't think EUC will become mainstream before 1: A kind of redundant security is introduced that can 99% prevent hardware cutouts (you can't prevent idiots from over-leaning... ) 2: That the wheels are delivered with such a high degree of quality control that virtually all of them work "out of the box" without any trouble. As it is now, you almost have to be a geek to be an EUC owner. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, techyiam said: At the time, were you looking for a PEV to replace your old bike? Or, if your dad hadn't bought an electric wheel, would you have continued to ride your old bike? I was interested in pevs.. But i wasn't really looking to buy yet. Wasn't even looking at EUC's at all... (I was mostly looking at scooters, because they where cheap.) One day i was jokingly telling we should buy "electric scooters". He also where riding to job with bike.. 1 month latter he comes home with big box (ks16s). If i where to buy first, i would have bought Ninebot Max or Vsett 8. Learning to ride EUC isn't really hard.. Only problem i had - i wasn't leaning forwards. Only at 4th day i said DUCK IT and did superman lean forwards. That got me going. Riding was really easy. If i did superman lean forwards right from start, i would have been riding first day already. Free mounting and standing in place and falling over after 3 seconds when losing balance was my problem.. I was simply balancing in place with both feet on pedals. (No fences, etc.. Free mounting right from start.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Funky said: I was interested in pevs.. But i wasn't really looking to buy yet. Wasn't even looking at EUC's at all... (I was mostly looking at scooters, because they where cheap.) One day i was jokingly telling we should buy "electric scooters". He also where riding to job with bike.. 1 month latter he comes home with big box (ks16s). If i where to buy first, i would have bought Ninebot Max or Vsett 8. To me, this confirms that the interest came from within. However, it appears that we draw different conclusions. This is how I look at it. Not only did you buy a PEV earlier than you would have otherwise, you bought an electric wheel. You learnt about electric wheels after your dad bought one home. And this started the ball rolling. Then you decided to learn to ride it. Not only that, YOU went on your own and looked at pev's including electric wheels, and was able to justify to yourself that you should get an electric wheel. After some due diligence, you picked out the 18 XL, and bought it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcgldr Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 I'm an old (71 years now) retired guy. I bought a V8F back in August 2021 to ride as a hobby, not for commuting. I watched how to ride and other videos before deciding I would be able to learn how to ride and then ordered my V8F. I only ride about 50 miles a month, so I'm not a typical EUC rider. I already knew how to ride slowly on a bicycle, so I started off doing the same on the V8F, twisting it by arm flailing left to steer right and vice versa for balance and direction at 3 to 5 mph at a tennis court, then moved to a long outdoor parking lot where I felt comfortable going faster, and found my V8F became stable at around 7 mph, no longer had to make balance corrections, and relaxed my arms. I then learned to tilt steer (inner foot down, outer foot up), able to do large radius turns that day, and my turning significantly improved during my first month (about 6 hours) of riding. I used support to mount and launch until I could ride reasonably well, waiting until day 5 to learn to free mount, which wasn't an issue since I could already ride and just needed to step and get both feet on. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 8 hours ago, Funky said: (I don't really care about it. It's the same as my old bike to me.) Are/were you active in discussing at your old bike’s discussion forum? 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: Are/were you active in discussing at your old bike’s discussion forum? EUC forum is the only forum i'm active. Cheap 500$ bike - you don't need to talk about it.. Only reason i joined here, was when i was choosing between ks18xl vs ks16x. That's how i got swept down this rabbit hole. Now i can't leave it, even if i wanted to!!! Someone needs to have a voice in "small/light" wheel category... (Duck going bigger and heavier.. Go lighter and smaller!) Most people who own V5/8/10, ks14/16, teslas, etc.. Don't even talk or join forums like these. Edited June 7, 2023 by Funky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted June 7, 2023 Share Posted June 7, 2023 2 hours ago, Funky said: That's how i got swept down this rabbit hole. Yup. So not just a method to go from A to B after all. Brothers in arms. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funky Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 56 minutes ago, mrelwood said: Yup. So not just a method to go from A to B after all. Brothers in arms. Most times it is A to B. Because you got the destination in mind. Some people just take the long route from A..... to B. BTW i mean forum - the rabbit hole. EUC in general - Meh, i could live without it. In that sense i'm not even in the rabbit hole. Because i didn't catch the "WANNA BUY SECOND/THIRD/FOURTH.. EUC" sickness. Doh i still follow new releases/news.. Haven't seen single new EUC that would sway my heart strings to open my wallet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Funky said: Most times it is A to B. Because you got the destination in mind. Some people just take the long route from A..... to B. BTW i mean forum - the rabbit hole. EUC in general - Meh, i could live without it. In that sense i'm not even in the rabbit hole. Because i didn't catch the "WANNA BUY SECOND/THIRD/FOURTH.. EUC" sickness. Doh i still follow new releases/news.. Haven't seen single new EUC that would sway my heart strings to open my wallet. you must be infected with a very strange mutated version of the EUC virus 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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