FarkyJ Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 100v with 1800 battery on 45kg that must be wrong...until they get high discharge rate cells there and its aggresivelly priced makes no sense in terms of the market right now...mini,patton,extreme even the s19 which is pretty flashy wheel... Edited August 29, 2023 by FarkyJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 They claim 450 A phase current controller - you would need 50+ A on 100v continuous to feed that. With Samsung 50s theoretically possible - Really curious if they deliver. If yes it will smoke out extreme. Really strong claims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyss Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, daniel1234 said: They claim 450 A phase current controller - you would need 50+ A on 100v continuous to feed that. With Samsung 50s theoretically possible - Really curious if they deliver. If yes it will smoke out extreme. How do you get 50amps 100v to get 450amps? I thought amps don't change based on volts. If they say the controller supports 450amps then it would be 450amps at 10v, 52v or 100v. After reading a bit more, that isn't correct. Electronics limitations are based off current. So my new understanding is the 450amp figure is meaningless without the voltage, but assuming 100v, then the controller can push 45,000W through it. Also, they say the motor is 9000w which means the controller would only ever push 90 amps at 100v. I'm mainly curious. Not an expert so I'm probably misunderstanding something. Edited August 29, 2023 by Eyss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 2 hours ago, Eyss said: Also, they say the motor is 9000w which means the controller would only ever push 90 amps at 100v. The 450 amp is max current possible through that controller as i understand it. The wheel is not capable of that type of current so it's a safety margin. The 9000w is probably more like 10,500w unlocked because @Forwardnbak demonstrated 12,500 w on the v13 and it's rated for 10,000w I personally have pushed it over 90 amps on acceleration with no beeps so it's possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheelkoregro Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 5 hours ago, Planemo said: Absolutely nothing wrong with air for EUC's. To each their own. I prefer springs personally over air/oil shocks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 17 minutes ago, onewheelkoregro said: To each their own. I prefer springs personally over air/oil shocks Fair enough, I was merely pointing out that your quote air was 'not viable for EUCs' was incorrect. Further, someone who pays circa £565 for a Fox X2 is not going to be a newbie to suspension and could quite easily afford a coil yet X2's sell in vast numbers. And FWIW, I bet that the performance of an X2 would destroy any sort of spring shock that the layman fits to an EUC 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 3 hours ago, Eyss said: How do you get 50amps 100v to get 450amps? To be precise - exact correlation between battery amps and motor amp depends on motor and controller. It is just my estimation from vesc systems. But motor amps are created by shorting battery voltage on one phase(coil), what drastically decrease voltage and increase current. Current in motor coils, makes force, what move you forward - not battery voltage itself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheelkoregro Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 7 hours ago, Planemo said: Fair enough, I was merely pointing out that your quote air was 'not viable for EUCs' was incorrect. Further, someone who pays circa £565 for a Fox X2 is not going to be a newbie to suspension and could quite easily afford a coil yet X2's sell in vast numbers. And FWIW, I bet that the performance of an X2 would destroy any sort of spring shock that the layman fits to an EUC To be fair the only suspension systems I deal with on a daily basis are tractor trailer Air suspension systems. Which is essentially a rubber sack that fills with air to keep a trailer stable over the road. I don't have much experience with motorcycle/over the road bike suspension systems. And mostly tractor suspension systems which are often just giant springs that you have to decompress, and if you don't you risk severe damage to yourself and the surrounding area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 On 8/28/2023 at 12:48 PM, onewheelkoregro said: Maybe if they upgrade to a coil or shock suspension because Air suspension is only used on diesel trailers because of the incredible weight. I am familiar with air suspension and I really don't think it is viable for EUCs which is why it is only on the V11 and V13 Air suspension has been used on mountain bikes for years (including very high-end bikes), and it works very well. There's no reason I wouldn't work just as well on ECUs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheelkoregro Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 28 minutes ago, NSFW said: Air suspension has been used on mountain bikes for years (including very high-end bikes), and it works very well. There's no reason I wouldn't work just as well on ECUs. If you look at the post right above your comment it explains that I am an OTR diesel technician. I only see Air bag suspension and coil suspension on a daily basis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, NSFW said: Air suspension is only used on diesel trailers because of the incredible weight this is not the reason the use air bags on tractor trailer. The use them so you can adjust your cushioning and height when you are loaded and when you are empty. Springs that can support a fully loaded tractor trailer combo would be to stiff when the rig is unloaded. Also truck air bags are in no way similar to an oil dampened air shock. Edited August 29, 2023 by Punxatawneyjoe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post onewheelkoregro Posted August 29, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2023 45 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: this is not the reason the use air bags on tractor trailer. The use them so you can adjust your cushioning and height when you are loaded and when you are empty. Springs that can support a fully loaded tractor trailer combo would be to stiff when the rig is unloaded. Also truck air bags are in no way similar to an oil dampened air shock. I wish I could be well versed in all things mechanical but sadly I am only trained in one area and that is Diesel tractor and trailer operation and maintenance. But I appreciate people taking the time to educate people on this forum instead of bashing their ignorance. That's what I love about this community! We all have different backgrounds, races, creeds and we are all united by our love of these machines! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 15 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said: The 450 amp is max current possible through that controller as i understand it. The wheel is not capable of that type of current so it's a safety margin. The 9000w is probably more like 10,500w unlocked because @Forwardnbak demonstrated 12,500 w on the v13 and it's rated for 10,000w I personally have pushed it over 90 amps on acceleration with no beeps so it's possible. Unless I’m mistaken, an EUC motor is only driven at the max battery voltage at max speed. Anything below that and the voltage across motor coils is lower than that. I don’t know the exact relations since they are a bit complex, but afaik if you do a hard acceleration from standstill, the motor current is the first one to rise while the motor voltage is still low. That’s where the high amperage is useful. Back when Msuper V3 was still a thing, it tended to fry the board if you tried to start from behind a small rock or other small obstacle. That’s when the current rises so much that the board couldn’t handle it. So what the 450A capability of the controller should get us is a magnificent climbing power at low speeds. As long as the firmware utilizes it well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post NSFW Posted August 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, mrelwood said: Unless I’m mistaken, an EUC motor is only driven at the max battery voltage at max speed. Anything below that and the voltage across motor coils is lower than that. I'm pretty sure they use pulse width modulation, aka PWM. Pulse-width modulation - Wikipedia All the voltage. Just not all the time. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadVlad Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) The guy said its around 40kg in the comments, so ... somehow they managed to make this wheel 90 lbs? How?! Edited August 30, 2023 by MadVlad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) Extreme is 39kg(86lbs) and it is well build from what I’ve seen, so I’m not too surprised about that (Edit: and it’s the closest comparison to V14). Edited August 30, 2023 by Paul g Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punxatawneyjoe Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 I don't see why it would be 100v, the v13 with the same raptor controller is 126v. Why wouldn't they just keep the 126v setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daniel1234 Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 When we will know? Will it be more extreme than "Extreme" ? Estimated Extreme price ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Paul g Posted August 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul g Posted August 30, 2023 Share Posted August 30, 2023 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Rawnei Posted August 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2023 Boring videos, I want to see high speed crashes and broken suspension. 🥳😂 3 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMA Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 i'm not against the 100v 1800wh platform but i bet it use same 126v system as v13, i hope it's not another 40kg wheel lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techyiam Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, EMA said: i'm not against the 100v 1800wh platform but i bet it use same 126v system as v13, i hope it's not another 40kg wheel lol To say it has 1800 Wh battery capacity, I would think 100 V or 134.4 V battery configuration is more likely. Samsung 50E or 50S cells (1) 126 V = 30 cells x 4.2 V. 30 cells * 3.6 V nominal * 5 Ah * 3P = 1620 Wh 30 cells * 3.6 V nominal * 5 Ah * 4P = 2160 Wh (2) 134.4 V = 32 cells * 4.2 V. 32 cells * 3.6 V nominal * 5 Ah * 3P = 1728 Wh (3) 100.8 V = 24 cells * 4.2 V. 24 cells * 3.6 V nominal * 5 Ah * 4P = 1728 Wh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Planemo Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 3P with 9kW max motor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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