Inmotion V14 Adventure: a new trail wheel from Inmotion

[eezo]

51 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

I don't think you can cling on to a wider riding stance any better than you can on a narrow one.

It's not that you can cling better with a wider stance, it's that you can lean more with a wider stance (without needing the motorcycle-type cling). As an example, stand with your feet together, then see how far you can lean to the side with your lean-side knee bent before you tip over. Move your feet shoulder-width apart, then repeat the test to see how far you can lean over. With a wider stance on an EUC, you don't need to cling as much -- you're able to lean your weight / the wheel further while still maintaining body balance.

51 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

It's actually the other way around. Wide pedals get closer to the ground much sooner, limiting your lean angle.

That's a sunk cost, though. When comparing different EUCs, some will have wider/lower pedals than others. I'm talking about the same EUC though. The same rider on the same EUC, the one with a wider stance will be able to lean more when cornering.

Edited August 7, 2023 by eezo

[mrelwood]

2 hours ago, eezo said:

As an example, stand with your feet together, then see how far you can lean to the side with your lean-side knee bent before you tip over. Move your feet shoulder-width apart, then repeat the test to see how far you can lean over.

Again, this is not applicable to EUCs. You’re practically standing still. When you lean more to the side, the wheel follows you and turns tighter. You’re not tipping over.

2 hours ago, eezo said:

The same rider on the same EUC, the one with a wider stance will be able to lean more when cornering.

And I don’t think that’s true. But you can of course like a wider stance if you want. That’s why there is variance in wheel widths.

[eezo]

33 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Again, this is not applicable to EUCs. You’re practically standing still. When you lean more to the side, the wheel follows you and turns tighter. You’re not tipping over.

And I don’t think that’s true. But you can of course like a wider stance if you want. That’s why there is variance in wheel widths.

What you're saying is accurate based on when I rode a V11, because it's light enough to be able to lean your body into the turn to get it to tilt, even at speed. Riding the Commander Pro though, a 95lb/43kg 20" wheel does not respond the same as a 62lb/28kg wheel. When cornering at speed, you can't lean enough from an upright position to tilt the wheel enough to turn tighter. It fights the lean much, much harder. You can't shift enough of your body weight where it matters (hips/upper body) to the inside to force the tilt/turn when your feet are together. My point is that with a wider stance, you can corner like on a racing motorcycle (hanging your body out to the inside with bent knee) and shift most of your body weight to the inside in order to get a sharper, more stable turn. It also lowers your center of gravity so you're more stable around the corner.

I think this is a situation where the cornering techniques drastically change on a heavy wheel.

[InfiniteWheelie]

10 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

A design forcing a rider to ride in a way that is uncomfortable is bad, But a wider stance itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Some, including myself, prefer a wider stance.  If you look at any traditional sport where the athelete needs to quickly change direction, you will see them using a wide stance with their knees bent, hips back, chest forward, and arms above their hips.  Taking a similar athletic stance on an EUC lends itself to an active, aggressive riding style.

I don't know if you've ridden the Abrams, but it's a wheel that suffers this problem. On the Abrams it's impossible to even ride with your feet against the wheel (at least without turning your knees/toes outward an an extreme angle). You constantly have the upper part of the wheel digging into the side of your knee area and preventing it. 

The solution I came up with was to ride with my knees/toes pointed outward, while also standing on the outer half of the pedals, and making sure to not grip to wheel with my legs as much as possible. I like everything about the Abrams except for this. It's an ergonomic nightmare that actually forces you into a single (and uncomfortable) riding stance. On a slimmer/shorter wheel you can still choose to ride in a similar wide/loose stance.

It is true that when you're learning you tend to grip the wheel tighter, and as you get better you'll likely use a wider/looser stance. I experienced that with my first wheel the Sherman, but I was actually able to put my feet/calves against the wheel when learning, and as an alternate riding stance as an experience rider. I don't think anyone argues that wider wheels are better ergonomically, it's something we tolerate because it means bigger batteries or wider tires.

Edited August 7, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[on one]

On 8/6/2023 at 4:24 PM, Punxatawneyjoe said:

@Forwardnbak had an issue in the rain after touching the screen when it's wet. Apparently if it's touched or "activated" when it's wet i can change settings with droplets of water. He notified inmotion of this and their solution was the screen cover/protector.

Inmotion allows their flagship product to let the settings be changed while in ride mode by droplets of water? I thought Inmotion was supposed to be safety conscious. It's a blatant inconsistency and I consider this troubling. It makes me steer away from Inmotion products. I wonder, "Does the Sherman S suffer from the same lack of forethought?" I suspect Leaper Kim took thought to prevent settings changes while in ride mode, but I could be wrong.

Edited August 7, 2023 by earthtwin
cross referrence

[Cerbera]

51 minutes ago, earthtwin said:

Inmotion allows their flagship product to let the settings be changed while in ride mode by droplets of water? I thought Inmotion was supposed to be safety conscious. It's a blatant inconsistency and I consider this troubling. It makes me steer away from Inmotion products. I wonder, "Does the Sherman S suffer from the same lack of forethought?" I suspect Leaper Kim took thought to prevent settings changes while in ride mode, but I could be wrong.

I don't think it's an oversight - it's just something that happens with certain types of touchscreen - my phone does it a lot too unless I disable the display. I would expect them to provide a way to lock the screen against input, but not necessarily to do much more than that.

My DJI Action Cam has a special kind of touch screen that doesn't react to water droplets but that technology is a double edged sword in that it often doesn't work with even conductive gloves, which I imagine would quickly become annoying if that was your main way of changing stuff about the wheel.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

Inmotion allows their flagship product to let the settings be changed while in ride mode by droplets of water

Maybe you misunderstood, No the settings can't be changed while you are riding. No droplets of water do not change settings unless you are not moving and start messing with the settings in the rain. I have ridden in the rain and have had no issues and you can obviously see by the video i posted, just water does not change any settings.

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, eezo said:

Riding the Commander Pro though, a 95lb/43kg 20" wheel does not respond the same as a 62lb/28kg wheel. When cornering at speed, you can't lean enough from an upright position to tilt the wheel enough to turn tighter.

The stock tire on the V11 is narrow for a 3” tire and has a pointy profile, so it tilts pretty well while turning. I run the K66 on mine, which stays upright much stronger while turning. It changes the turning technique for sure. I have no problems hanging to the side though. But it’s mostly the tire that determines how hard the wheel tries to stay upright during cornering. Knobbies for example tilt much more.

 But isn’t the Commander Pro a pretty wide wheel? So shouldn’t what you describe then be possible especially well on that model? Maybe it’s an ergonomics issue more than a wheel width issue after all?

3 hours ago, eezo said:

My point is that with a wider stance, you can corner like on a racing motorcycle (hanging your body out to the inside with bent knee) and shift most of your body weight to the inside in order to get a sharper, more stable turn.

I still don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to do that on a narrow wheel. I’ve heard that the V13 for example is a narrow wheel for it’s size. Have you experienced problems turning with it compared to wider 22” wheels?

Or are we perhaps talking about different things here? A wide stance vs a wide wheel. I understood that you like wide wheels because of this. But one can of course have a narrow or a wide stance on all wheels, no matter the wheel’s width.

[InfiniteWheelie]

15 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

But one can of course have a narrow or a wide stance on all wheels, no matter the wheel’s width.

Not on the Abrams, the wheel itself is too wide and tall. Wide stance only.

On a narrow wheel you can simply put on wide pedals and stand as wide or narrow as you want.

Edited August 7, 2023 by InfiniteWheelie

[eezo]

19 minutes ago, mrelwood said:

Or are we perhaps talking about different things here? A wide stance vs a wide wheel. I understood that you like wide wheels because of this. But one can of course have a narrow or a wide stance on all wheels, no matter the wheel’s width.

I've been talking about wide stance the whole time. For any wheel, a wider stance will allow the rider to do a motorcycle knee-out body lean vs a narrow stance. On smaller/lighter wheels, the rider won't need to do a motorcycle lean for speed cornering so stance doesn't really matter either way. But on heavy wheels, it's almost necessary to take a wider stance to make it easier to do a motorcycle lean, because that's just about the only way to get a wheel that size to tilt and hold the tilt through the corner.

Edited August 7, 2023 by eezo

[on one]

7 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Maybe you misunderstood, No the settings can't be changed while you are riding. No droplets of water do not change settings unless you are not moving and start messing with the settings in the rain. I have ridden in the rain and have had no issues and you can obviously see by the video i posted, just water does not change any settings.

oh. I did misunderstand. Sorry for being so judgemental about your chosen brand.

7 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I don't think it's an oversight - it's just something that happens with certain types of touchscreen - my phone does it a lot too unless I disable the display.

I always thought having a touch screen was sort of dicey because reinforced and handy switches dials and buttons are more ergonomic and solid state than a touch screen. Industrial/mororcycle type, not consumer type. Also, programming your wheel in programming mode should be the only way to make changes unless it's a protected switch/activator/dial motorcycle user interface.

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Not on the Abrams, the wheel itself is too wide and tall. Wide stance only.

Not if you have long legs, and you are bow legged. 

Now that I have ridden my Abrams for over 4000 km's, I can ride any wheel and not complain about it being too wide.

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, earthtwin said:

Sorry for being so judgemental about your chosen brand.

I don't mind people being judgemental at all. As a matter of fact i'm super judgemental so it doesn't bother me when others are. I just wanted to set the record straight so you weren't assuming something that isn't true.

[Rollin-on-1]

13 hours ago, mrelwood said:

We don't change direction as we ride. We stand still. 

I don't know about your riding style, but when I am aggressively carving at high speeds, I am shifting my body side to side quite a bit.  My feet aren't moving much, but the rest of my body parts are.

[Forwardnbak]

I think the screen is fine. Glad it’s an easy fix they are updating. Glad they listen, update things and improve them. 

First batch woes, and I can handle not using the screen in the wet anyway. 

Glad both my IM wheels still roll so well.

The adventure - I know they are working on a launch video for the 15th Aug, they said this is a soft launch and the launch date is still Sept. Close now. 

More info will be great. 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by Forwardnbak

[mrelwood]

5 hours ago, eezo said:

I've been talking about wide stance the whole time.

That you have.  I’m sorry, I don’t know how I read your earlier post so wrong! Maybe something from another thread got stuck in my head.

 Yes, we definitely agree that a wider stance on any wheel allows for more movement for aggressive cornering, as well as low speed turning. Sorry that I got into a debate with my head all wrong.

 

32 minutes ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I don't know about your riding style, but when I am aggressively carving at high speeds, I am shifting my body side to side quite a bit.  My feet aren't moving much, but the rest of my body parts are.

That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I was replying to the comparison of EUC riding and doing sports on solid ground.

However we move our weight on an EUC, the wheel makes it a balanced situation (unless something goes horribly wrong). Front to back, side to side. So our turning doesn’t really benefit from taking support from a wider stance in the same way it would when changing direction on solid ground where you need to compensate for your own weight shifting yourself, and keep the balance while doing so. On EUCs we stand “still”, from the gravity vector’s point of view as well.

 But there are definitely benefits from standing wide enough to allow the wheel to move between your legs, as well as to enable you to “hang” to the side of the wheel when doing fast cornering.

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

[techyiam]

It sounds like Inmotion's mono wheel line up as discussed in Bob Yan online interview is still intact except for release dates.

From Facebook:

Quote

Inmotion Global

Admin

Top contributor

 

I think you need to introduce yourself first. Hello guys, Mark Yu is the Product Manager at INMOTION.

13

 

 

Quote

Techy Iam

Hi Mark, Very nice of you to find time to drop in. Can you confirm whether the monowheel product line as outlined by Bob Yan in the online interviews he gave is still intact. Or has there been changes? I look forward to your reply.

2

• Mark Yu

  Author

  Group expert

  +1

   

  Techy Iam Some changes of the products release time.

 

[UPONIT]

On 8/7/2023 at 12:56 PM, earthtwin said:

Inmotion allows their flagship product to let the settings be changed while in ride mode by droplets of water? I thought Inmotion was supposed to be safety conscious. It's a blatant inconsistency and I consider this troubling. It makes me steer away from Inmotion products. I wonder, "Does the Sherman S suffer from the same lack of forethought?" I suspect Leaper Kim took thought to prevent settings changes while in ride mode, but I could be wrong.

Before the touchscreen "issue", you liked InMotion products?

22 hours ago, earthtwin said:

oh. I did misunderstand. Sorry for being so judgemental about your chosen brand.

I always thought having a touch screen was sort of dicey because reinforced and handy switches dials and buttons are more ergonomic and solid state than a touch screen. Industrial/mororcycle type, not consumer type. Also, programming your wheel in programming mode should be the only way to make changes unless it's a protected switch/activator/dial motorcycle user interface.

The whole touchscreen complaint seems like motivated reasoning.

Is there a backstory here?

8 hours ago, techyiam said:

It sounds like Inmotion's mono wheel line up as discussed in Bob Yan online interview is still intact except for release dates.

From Facebook:

Is there a reasonably concise reference I can consult, where the use of "monowheel" was proposed as superior to "EUC"?

It ain't. 
 

Spoiler

Has no one pointed out that "wheel" is already a singular noun, so "monowheel" is a redundant construction? Duh.

Can you spot 6 similar errors in the following sentence?

Our multi-person choir stopped by an ATM machine before we took a flying airplane to the Catholic Vatican to perform musical songs while riding our monowheels.

Spoiler

Choirs are multi-person by definition.
The M in ATM stands for machine.
Airplanes fly by def.
The Vatican is Catholic by def.
Songs are musical by def. 

AND "wheel" is already singular by definition.

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by UPONIT
quibbles and nitpickery

[Robse]

Ok maybe it's not fair to bring this to mind, but now it came up in a thread I follow, and then I thought that while everyone is anxiously waiting for the day of the launch It's..........

 

Edited August 9, 2023 by Robse

[techyiam]

1 hour ago, Robse said:

Ok maybe it's not fair to bring this to mind, but now it came up in a thread I follow, and then I thought that while everyone is anxiously waiting for the day of the launch

Very misleading of you.

Firstly, the number of reported complaints have been only a very small number. Just ewheels.com alone, the the V12 sale volume would be very high since the V12 is their best selling electric wheel.

Secondly, the V13 would be a better indicator since Bob Yan has said go forward, they will push through the Raptor Controller technology to future wheels. And the V13 is looking good in this regard.

[meepmeepmayer]

Some Adventure-unrelated posts have been split off to here:

Edited August 9, 2023 by meepmeepmayer

[Robse]

3 hours ago, techyiam said:

Very misleading of you.

Firstly, the number of reported complaints have been only a very small number. Just ewheels.com alone, the the V12 sale volume would be very high since the V12 is their best selling electric wheel.

Secondly, the V13 would be a better indicator since Bob Yan has said go forward, they will push through the Raptor Controller technology to future wheels. And the V13 is looking good in this regard.

It's not "misleading".  Just plain information.  People are free to think what they want ;-)   I do not now of any other wheel that could accelerate on it's own., small numbers or not.   What is a very small number?  The number is big enough to become visible in this forum.  But sure, The new wheel from Inmotion does not come with this surprise feature.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Robse

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]

[Merkyu Kyu Kyu]