Paradox Posted March 9, 2023 Share Posted March 9, 2023 Just now, Gabriz81 said: Leaperkim is more expensive than master...i need to see in what it translate 1.1 V....2-3km? 5? let will see now we can wait for 2nd step Just a thought. Make sure you leave the charger on the wheel for an hour or two after it goes green. The charging does not end exactly when the charger turns green. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share Posted March 10, 2023 another question....euc world (and app begode too), propose me to update the firmware at the last version, the V 2.4 HB_GW2015004. what it means the V 2.4 (is the version of the my Master?)? And, is convenient for me update the firmware o there is any bug? I have the GW2015003 now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gabriz81 said: And, is convenient for me update the firmware o there is any bug? I have the GW2015003 now. There is a risk you may brick your machine if the update doesn't work / finish, and getting it back if that happens can be a deeply frustrating experience. There are numerous other threads on what to do if this happens, but if you don't like down-time, and nothing is awful about your current firmware I would consider not updating it until you absolutely have to. Mine is still the factory firmware, and I don't feel any need to update that. Funnily enough though, my EUC World has never suggested I do thus far... Edited March 10, 2023 by Cerbera Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share Posted March 10, 2023 16 minutes ago, Cerbera said: There is a risk you may brick your machine if the update doesn't work / finish, and getting it back if that happens can be a deeply frustrating experience. There are numerous other threads on what to do if this happens, but if you don't like down-time, and nothing is awful about your current firmware I would consider not updating it until you absolutely have to. Mine is still the factory firmware, and I don't feel any need to update that. Funnily enough though, my EUC World has never suggested I do thus far... ok....i thinked maybe they could they solved the problem of motherboard precision read of voltage with this upgrade...could be right? and for the version V of the firmware ? i have to think wich my version of the master is the 2.4? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 10, 2023 Share Posted March 10, 2023 56 minutes ago, Gabriz81 said: ok....i thinked maybe they could they solved the problem of motherboard precision read of voltage with this upgrade...could be right? Unlikely, did not get any reports about battery voltage measurement calibration with any firmwares for begode. That's unique for leaperkim. Inmotion has this remotely if one contacts the service team. Main problem is, that the circuits are not calibrated by the manufacturer... Chinese labour seems to be too expensive for such tasks. Btw - your multimeter could be easily off by one volt, too if it is some "normal, standard" multimeter. But often they are nicely manufacturer calibrated and surprisingly accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 Hello, i have measured the voltage after my first full charge at 100%, and the result is: from EUC WORLD: 133.0V - from charge board with multimeter: 133.8V single battery packs with multimeter: ant. sx 66.6 V - ant. dx 67.1 V post. sx 66.6 V - post. dx 67.1 V what do you think about this? the batteries on the right are ok, but left side don't charge to 67.1 or .2 V (i know that the correct voltage must to be 67.1/2V) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gabriz81 said: what do you think about this? the batteries on the right are ok, but left side don't charge to 67.1 or .2 V (i know that the correct voltage must to be 67.1/2V) If you charge it again until green light shows, disconnect charger - what's the pack voltages? And two hours later (with wheel shut off inbetween)? Edit: one of the two 66.6V packs (sx) seems to be out of balance and stop prematurely charging. If so a second charge after some rest without any discharging inbetween should increase the voltage. Edited March 16, 2023 by Chriull 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 Marty is on the case ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Marty is on the case ! 15 hours ago, Gabriz81 said: what do you think about this? Seems to be a "power distribution board" issue and battery packs beeing ok. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 17, 2023 Author Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Chriull said: Seems to be a "power distribution board" issue and battery packs beeing ok. Don't could be an issue of the bms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Gabriz81 said: Don't could be an issue of the bms? Could be. But after watching @Marty Backe's youtube video linked above i'd say your power distribution board is the culprit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 17, 2023 Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Gabriz81 said: Don't could be an issue of the bms? There are BMS components on both the charge board AND within the packs, but it is the parts on the charge board that are known to drop charge over time, and are most likely responsible for under-voltage charges (once the charger itself (and badly tweaked voltage there) has been eliminated from enquiries)... Edited March 17, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Marty Backe Posted March 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Cerbera said: There are BMS components on both the charge board AND within the packs, but it is the parts on the charge board that are known to drop charge over time, and are most likely responsible for under-voltage charges (once the charger itself (and badly tweaked voltage there) has been eliminated from enquiries)... As explained in my video here 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post xorbe Posted March 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2023 (edited) I've been there done that a decade ago with chasing a precise 4.20V/cell charge, and some puffed packs later, I have advice for everyone. Are you all familiar with CC + CV (constant current + constant voltage) charging phases? During the tail CV phase, generally the charging stops at some preset current level (like 500mA). This will always achieve less than a "perfectly full" charge. Also, when the battery cools slightly from charging, the voltage will also naturally dip a little (in addition to the CV stop at 500mA.) This is a safety margin you should leave in place. Trying to manage pack charging to exactly 4.20V/cell will eventually result in a fire -- often this is achieved with over-voltage charging such that the post charge dip settles to 4.2V/cell. However over-voltage causes dentrites to form on the anode/cathode which eventually grow enough to short out the cells internally, causing smoke and fire. I also want to mention that a typical consumer DMM has perhaps a ±1.2% accuracy, so if you didn't spend $500+ on a precision DMM, then your measurement of 134.4V is somewhere approx 132.7V to 136.1V ... (4.15 to 4.25/cell) so you'll want to account for that and aim for a measurement that's guaranteed to be below an actual 4.2V/cell. Turn off the OCD, be safe and happy with 4.10V+/cell. If you need more capacity, I would suggest adding more capacity, not pushing fire breathing batteries to their breaking limits. 133.0V is already 4.16V/cell, and that's perfectly fine. Edited March 17, 2023 by xorbe 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, xorbe said: 133.0V is already 4.16V/cell, and that's perfectly fine. Yeah, of all the problems Master owners have to deal with this one concerns me the least, and I get some level of peace of mind imagining that my batteries are not being held at their very maximums. The range on that thing is so vast compared to what I need of it that even if I started at 120v I'd still have enough range (though perhaps not performance) to get done everything I need to in a single trip. Appreciate that's not the same for everyone though. But from my previous droning days I recall that a 4S pack would balance charge to its intended 16.8v maybe the first 3 times you used it, and thereafter it would be less and less every time, until a few years later you'd be lucky to get them to reach 16.2V no matter long you balanced charged for. In the case of wheels I remember being surprised they hit their target voltages for as long as they did ! Edited March 18, 2023 by Cerbera 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 7 hours ago, xorbe said: Turn off the OCD, be safe and happy with 4.10V+/cell. If you need more capacity, I would suggest adding more capacity, not pushing fire breathing batteries to their breaking limits. 133.0V is already 4.16V/cell, and that's perfectly fine. Although all your points are perfectly valid (beside charging healthy cells to 4.2V inflicts _no_ fire danger) they are very likely not relevant here. Some Begode master boards versions drain battery packs. And this faulty designed boards, as shown in the already twice linked and mentioned video stop charging for some of the 4 packs prematurely! So this is no normal side effect of li ion cell charging, that could be accepted to not overly stress the cells - that's a design fault. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 19, 2023 Author Share Posted March 19, 2023 On 3/17/2023 at 4:48 PM, Chriull said: Could be. Ma dopo aver guardato @Marty HillIl video di YouTube linkato sopra direi che la tua scheda di distribuzione dell'alimentazione è il colpevole. i don't know, but i don't have other charger to equilibrate the packs. I have discovered the battery drain too....in one day and half, yesterday was to 131.8V (from euc world). the seller tell that the begode ingeneer say that is tolerance. This problems, the problem of the shock absorber, the stripped screws (in the frame) of 2 of the pack batteries.... I'm losing patience, I think I will also consider paying with paypal "a tolerance". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 I don't think this should be excused. Begode are just not adapting their chargers to a slightly higher voltage so the reverse diodes (that seem to be the problem, see the Youtube comments on Marty's video) in the charge control board are neutralised and the battery gets the full voltage. I recall the same problem when they introduced the reverse diodes on ewheels's request (back in... MSX times?). It's just sloppy. We got perfectly good 4.2V charging 5 years ago, why should this suddenly be too much to ask for?! Miles of range lost, for what exactly? Also, why is the stupid charge control board even there? Marty bypassed it and fully charged the batteries, which have their own BMS anyways. Older wheels didn't need that charge control board. Is it literally just for some reverse diodes and nothing else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) Thursday i have do a full charge and leave it other 2 hour after, the voltage of euc world was 133,1V (0.1V more before, but when i power on the master it go fast down at 133.0V). Today after 1 day and half the voltage of euc world is 131.6V. Without use it. Edited March 24, 2023 by Gabriz81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digithom Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Gabriz81 said: Thursday i have do a full charge and leave it other 2 hour after, the voltage of euc world was 133,1V (0.1V more before, but when i power on the master it go fast down at 133.0V). Today after 1 day and half the voltage of euc world is 131.6V. Without use it. This issue is already discussed here. It looks like that the latest charge board slowly discharges the battery for a matter of balancing and safety (nobody knows) in order to don't let the battery fully charged for a long period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, digithom said: This issue is already discussed here. It looks like that the latest charge board slowly discharges the battery for a matter of balancing and safety (nobody knows) in order to don't let the battery fully charged for a long period of time. Si l'ho pensato anche io, ma questa potrebbe essere una scusa conseguente, ma valevole per il lungo periodo, su questo siamo d'accordo...non in un giorno e mezzo, perchè se cosi fosse se aspetto me lo ritrovo a 100V nel giro di poco tempo. A meno che non si dica che 134.4V (nel mio caso 133V, si altro difetto, ahime!), siano pericolosi da tenere anche per breve tempo, allora il discorso cambia però. Scrivo in italiano perchè ho visto che sei italiano Edited March 24, 2023 by Gabriz81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digithom Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 12 minutes ago, Gabriz81 said: Si l'ho pensato anche io, ma questa potrebbe essere una scusa conseguente, ma valevole per il lungo periodo, su questo siamo d'accordo...non in un giorno e mezzo, perchè se cosi fosse se aspetto me lo ritrovo a 100V nel giro di poco tempo. A meno che non si dica che 134.4V (nel mio caso 133V, si altro difetto, ahime!), siano pericolosi da tenere anche per breve tempo, allora il discorso cambia però. Scrivo in italiano perchè ho visto che sei italiano Osserva meglio il fenomeno, non si scarica all'infinito, si abbassa di qualche volt in un paio di giorni e poi resta così. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriz81 Posted March 24, 2023 Author Share Posted March 24, 2023 19 minutes ago, digithom said: Osserva meglio il fenomeno, non si scarica all'infinito, si abbassa di qualche volt in un paio di giorni e poi resta così. va bene lo farò, ma non oggi perchè lo voglio usare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbera Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 58 minutes ago, digithom said: Osserva meglio il fenomeno, non si scarica all'infinito, si abbassa di qualche volt in un paio di giorni e poi resta così. Not sure anyone has left it for long enough to discover / confirm exactly when, or if it stops... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digithom Posted March 24, 2023 Share Posted March 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Cerbera said: Not sure anyone has left it for long enough to discover / confirm exactly when, or if it stops... like other people did, I used my wheel and left it some days, and voltage stayed stable. At the first occasion I'll do the complete test: fully charge and let the wheel steady, checking periodically the voltage until it stops. I'm writing the code for a microprocessor in order to automate the voltage reading, I'm quite ready for the test, I'm waiting a rainy week so I'll not use my Master 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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