Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[carlitos]

3 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

 if people are interested I will give some feedback.

Please do. When my wheel arrives, I intend to leave the stock tire for the upcoming winter season but as soon as the snow melts I want a road tire to enjoy the asphalt.

[jimjam.nyc]

4 hours ago, carlitos said:

Please do. When my wheel arrives, I intend to leave the stock tire for the upcoming winter season but as soon as the snow melts I want a road tire to enjoy the asphalt.

Ok.. So I just got back from an initial ride with this K38 Scooter tire.. And I almost killed myself.. LOL

I wont say the tire is bad yet. I need to mess with tire pressure and give it a chance.

Basically I got on and started off and everything was great. Much easier mount and dismount, going straight was nice.. Then I had to carve and turn and things went south very quickly as this tire just did not want to carve into a turn. I may just not be used to this type of scooter tire as the ones we usually get on our wheels are much softer.

I quickly got off the street and onto a secluded area where I can take it easy and mess around.. I did start to get used to the tire a bit, but any sort of uneven ground or carving turns were a bit of an issue for me.. The tire just kept popping upright, or following lines of the road very aggressively.

Tight turns the tire took very nicely.. And going straight was a dream..

I usually ride a pretty low PSI so I came home and pumped this up to the reccomended PSI which is 36psi.

I am going to head out again tomorrow and see if adding some pressure will help.

I dont know if I just need to wear it in a bit, change how I typically ride to get used to it, or if this tire is just not good for 1 wheel devices. Shocked Wrongway was saying he liked this better than the stock tire.. but like I said, maybe it is just a behavioral thing I need to re-program myself.

I know @techyiam put a scooter tire on his V12. So just tagging to see if there is any good advice to help me out here, or if he noticed the same thing the first ride out.

[carlitos]

I had exactly the same experience when I installed the Michelin City Pro (also very hard material) on my MSX. What you are experiencing is called train tracking if I'm not mistaken. Going straight was awesome but turns (slow and tight or fast and shallow) were very difficult in the beginning. After a few rides I got the hang of it and it's now definitely my favorite tire.  My advice is just to keep going at it as you are, slowly and with plenty of space.   P.S.: the main difference for me was leaning a hell of a lot more with my calves on the wheel to turn, as opposed to simply dropping the turning foot (sort of like lowering the foot on the turning side - hard to explain over text).

[Rawnei]

9 hours ago, Cyberwolf said:

Something odd though is that EUC World didn't sound any alarms going up the hill, but did throw safety margin alarms at other times when stopped.

That's a bug, not sure if bug in euc world or firmware, if you check logs when it happens pwm will be negative like -200 something, same on Sherman S, only happens at standstill.

[Edidas]

Which 16" street tire you guys recommended for patton? I'm thinking of chao yang h666

[stizl]

10 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Just got my Patton back together. Everything is much tighter now.. There was some tiny amount of play when transitioning back and forth.. (sort of like wrongways but not nearly as bad.. almost unnoticeable). That is completely gone now. Think it was slightly loose motor bolts. These all had locktight on them and were well in place when taking apart.. I think I just tourqued them in a bit better than factory.

I have 1 tiny gripe.. and 1 word of caution.

Gripe.. my mudguard in front is now slight off center.. No big deal.. Its just annoying this happens.. I see this happens on sherman s as well.. Not sure if there is any way to avoid that

Caution. Make sure your tubes have the valve stem that sits paralell to the wheel.. not the one that kind of sits at an angle.. I had a tube where the bent stem kind of pointed outward from the tube.. It fits fine.. Its just really really hard to get the pump on head on it. I will probably change this out next time I take this thing apart.

I got the heidenau k38 (not k34) I think the k34 is not really the tire wrongway got. The K34 seems to not be offered in the 3.00x12 size (at least in the US). The k38 is a vintage scooter tire and looks like it could be pretty great. I will start to ride today and if people are interested I will give some feedback.

 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Ok.. So I just got back from an initial ride with this K38 Scooter tire.. And I almost killed myself.. LOL

I wont say the tire is bad yet. I need to mess with tire pressure and give it a chance.

Basically I got on and started off and everything was great. Much easier mount and dismount, going straight was nice.. Then I had to carve and turn and things went south very quickly as this tire just did not want to carve into a turn. I may just not be used to this type of scooter tire as the ones we usually get on our wheels are much softer.

I quickly got off the street and onto a secluded area where I can take it easy and mess around.. I did start to get used to the tire a bit, but any sort of uneven ground or carving turns were a bit of an issue for me.. The tire just kept popping upright, or following lines of the road very aggressively.

Tight turns the tire took very nicely.. And going straight was a dream..

I usually ride a pretty low PSI so I came home and pumped this up to the reccomended PSI which is 36psi.

I am going to head out again tomorrow and see if adding some pressure will help.

I dont know if I just need to wear it in a bit, change how I typically ride to get used to it, or if this tire is just not good for 1 wheel devices. Shocked Wrongway was saying he liked this better than the stock tire.. but like I said, maybe it is just a behavioral thing I need to re-program myself.

I know @techyiam put a scooter tire on his V12. So just tagging to see if there is any good advice to help me out here, or if he noticed the same thing the first ride out.

It’s great to hear your Patton feels tighter now after your rebuild.

Agreed regarding the tire WW showed. After watching his Patton tear down video then checking the Heidenau sites for the tire, yes, it’s definitely the K38. Hopefully it works out as an upgrade for you, especially in the city terrain. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts after some more testing. 

After changing tires on my S18 three times (and still having the intention to post here about it), I finally found one that feels good all around (great and stable on street, respectable on trails, easy tight U-turns)…the K66 (as @mrelwood called it). Unfortunately, they don’t offer this model in 12”. We now just need to find the equivalent tire for the Patton.

[stizl]

5 hours ago, carlitos said:

Going straight was awesome but turns (slow and tight or fast and shallow) were very difficult in the beginning. After a few rides I got the hang of it and it's now definitely my favorite tire.  My advice is just to keep going at it as you are, slowly and with plenty of space.   P.S.: the main difference for me was leaning a hell of a lot more with my calves on the wheel to turn, as opposed to simply dropping the turning foot (sort of like lowering the foot on the turning side - hard to explain over text).

I had the same experience previously when upgrading from lighter wheels to the “top heavy” V12HT. It seemed hard to control at first, but no problem after evolving to a riding style in which my outer calf was nearly always in contact with the upper shell when turning. After that and then carrying that style back to lighter wheels, they also seemed effortless to control and speed wobbles became a non-issue. 

[stizl]

12 hours ago, Cyberwolf said:

Looks like a there's  a new firmware out for the Patton...

Anyone have any details or testing/results yet?  Who's first? 

I just installed the new FW but haven’t ridden it yet.  The install was quick and painless.  I can confirm that the menu-navigating beeps are much, MUCH less loud and are quite tolerable now. I’ll ride 10+mi tomorrow and report back if I notice any difference in the ride experience. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by stizl

[Rollin-on-1]

1 hour ago, Edidas said:

Which 16" street tire you guys recommended for patton? I'm thinking of chao yang h666

I love the H666...on my 16x.  I don't think it will work on the Patton.  The ChaoYang H626 is good on the Patton.  It doesn't train track as much as H666, and it leans in a little more on turns at sub 30 mph.   Of the tires shown in the picture you posted only 2 are for the Patton, and I would probably avoid both.  

[Rollin-on-1]

55 minutes ago, stizl said:

 

It’s great to hear your Patton feels tighter now after your rebuild.

Agreed regarding the tire WW showed. After watching his Patton tear down video then checking the Heidenau sites for the tire, yes, it’s definitely the K38. Hopefully it works out as an upgrade for you, especially in the city terrain. I’m looking forward to hearing your thoughts after some more testing. 

After changing tires on my S18 three times (and still having the intention to post here about it), I finally found one that feels good all around (great and stable on street, respectable on trails, easy tight U-turns)…the K66 (as @mrelwood called it). Unfortunately, they don’t offer this model in 12”. We now just need to find the equivalent tire for the Patton.

ChaoYang H626 kind of similar the the K66.  Good on the streets and trails.

[Rollin-on-1]

7 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Ok.. So I just got back from an initial ride with this K38 Scooter tire.. And I almost killed myself.. LOL

I wont say the tire is bad yet. I need to mess with tire pressure and give it a chance.

Basically I got on and started off and everything was great. Much easier mount and dismount, going straight was nice.. Then I had to carve and turn and things went south very quickly as this tire just did not want to carve into a turn. I may just not be used to this type of scooter tire as the ones we usually get on our wheels are much softer.

I quickly got off the street and onto a secluded area where I can take it easy and mess around.. I did start to get used to the tire a bit, but any sort of uneven ground or carving turns were a bit of an issue for me.. The tire just kept popping upright, or following lines of the road very aggressively.

Tight turns the tire took very nicely.. And going straight was a dream..

I usually ride a pretty low PSI so I came home and pumped this up to the reccomended PSI which is 36psi.

I am going to head out again tomorrow and see if adding some pressure will help.

I dont know if I just need to wear it in a bit, change how I typically ride to get used to it, or if this tire is just not good for 1 wheel devices. Shocked Wrongway was saying he liked this better than the stock tire.. but like I said, maybe it is just a behavioral thing I need to re-program myself.

I know @techyiam put a scooter tire on his V12. So just tagging to see if there is any good advice to help me out here, or if he noticed the same thing the first ride out.

When a tire wants to stay upright, counter steering will make it drop into the turn more.  It may also just need to break in more like you said.  I hope you adjust quickly and grow to really like it!  I definately look forward to updates on your experience with that tire.  

[techyiam]

10 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

I know @techyiam put a scooter tire on his V12. So just tagging to see if there is any good advice to help me out here, or if he noticed the same thing the first ride out.

I tried two different scooter tires on my v12.

The first scooter tire I bought was intended for my T3. I found it on Craigslist for cheap. It was a CST Moped 16x2.5 tubeless tire. This tire was super stiff in every way. Way more stiffer than even the stock tubeless tire that came with the Abrams. Also, it had a flat tire profile. As it turned out, it didn't fit my T3. So I decided to try it out on my V12. Well, the tire could handle the bumps better but the ride was kind of harsh. The biggest problem was I had to lean crazy more than before to make tight 180/360 circles. And general turning would require more lean. I could ride it, but the turning/carving characteristics have become very different than the stock tire.

I bought a 16x3.0 scooter tire at a local scooter shop for my V12. This particular tire is the front tire of a set of front and rear tire combo. I chose the front tire because in no way was I going to risk not having a round enough tire profile. This tire went without a hitch. It did better in everyday than the stock tire. I didn't have to ride differently than the stock tire. I am still riding it. It is a great tire for the V12.

Sorry, my experience turned out to be simple, and without complications, so I didn't learn anything from which I could be of help.

Edited August 17, 2023 by techyiam

[OliG]

5 hours ago, stizl said:

I just installed the new FW but haven’t ridden it yet.  The install was quick and painless.  I can confirm that the menu-navigating beeps are much, MUCH less loud and are quite tolerable now. I’ll ride 10+mi tomorrow and report back if I notice any difference in the ride experience. 

From what I've heard from my dealer, the new firmware is not recommended by the factory if you don't have any problems switching on the wheel or headlight. 

I haven't seen anything on this topic here, but in one of the batches that arrived by boat in France, some wheels have sensitivity problems with the wheel switch and/or the headlight switch. The firmware update is supposed to solve this problem. 
 

[OliG]

And for those who want to improve on the original jump pad experience, I'm currently testing the alternative models offered by Eucclubhouse, the Enhanced Block Pads for Patton. You can find them here: https://www.eucclubhouse.com/products/enhanced-block-pads

They are available in 3 widths: 70 mm, 80 mm and 90 mm. For me, the most versatile version is the 80 mm. They also feature 2 additional notches that allow them to be lowered by 10 mm compared with the original model. 

The quality is excellent. I've been using them for 2 weeks and they hold up very well. 

The main advantage is that they cover much more of the foot and therefore provide better support than the original version. 

Some photo illustrations

[Rawnei]

And for anyone with a 3D printer you can print mine from here:

[OliG]

7 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

And for anyone with a 3D printer you can print mine from here:

Excellent option too. And easy to setup. 
 

It’s nice to see that we have several choice. 
 

Something I don’t remember @Rawnei : is your solution wider and longer too ? It seems to be longer on the picture. You probably already explained it but I don’t remember. 

[travsformation]

Tons of invaluable info in this thread, guys! Thanks for sharing!

So…I've made up my mind to get the Patton as my next trail-riding wheel (I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!) but I'm unsure which suspension option to go for. 

I weigh between 165-175 lb (75-80 kg) fully geared up. I'll be using the Patton almost exclusively for trail riding (the legacy Sherman will remain my long distance cruiser).

I enjoy fastish cruising (up to 28 mph / 45 kph) along wider and not excessively rugged MTB trails (I'm not talking downhill tracks or anything), and take it easy in the technical sections. As in, I love offroading but have broken enough bones in my life to learn to take it easy and strike a middle ground between the adrenaline rush and my physical integrity. 😅

So I'm by no means an extreme rider (nothing Chooch-style—think of me more as a more aggressive Marty Backe). 🤣

I don't do jumps and will probably only go down stairs once in a blue moon (just because... suspension).

Based on what LeaperKim and eWheels recommend, I should go for the 62 lb option. Riders on this thread (who stick to street and urban riding and don't do jumps or stairs) seem to agree. Influencers and off-road enthusiasts (although I don't pay too much attention to the former) seem to mostly agree that for offroading, the 62 lb is too easy to bottom out, so I'm on the fence here.

I've reached out to a couple of (lesser-known) YouTubers and they both recommended the 66 lb version.

Comfort is a priority (I quit offroading because of the knee pains that come with doing so with a non-suspension wheel), but so is suspension longevity, so frequently bottoming out is also something I'd like to avoid.

So…62 lb (and higher preload & dampening values) or 66 lb and less preload/dampening? (Am I getting that right? This will be my first suspension wheel).

Thanks a ton in advance!

Edited August 17, 2023 by travsformation

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, OliG said:

Excellent option too. And easy to setup. 
 

It’s nice to see that we have several choice. 
 

Something I don’t remember @Rawnei : is your solution wider and longer too ? It seems to be longer on the picture. You probably already explained it but I don’t remember. 

It makes it same width all the way to the toe, i.e. 6cm all the way, and it adds 10mm below so that it's a bit softer.

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Tons of invaluable info in this thread, guys! Thanks for sharing!

So…I've made up my mind to get the Patton as my next trail-riding wheel (I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!) but I'm unsure which suspension option to go for. 

I weigh between 165-175 lb (75-80 kg) fully geared up. I'll be using the Patton almost exclusively for trail riding (the legacy Sherman will remain my long distance cruiser).

I enjoy fastish cruising (up to 28 mph / 45 kph) along wider and not excessively rugged MTB trails (I'm not talking downhill tracks or anything), and take it easy in the technical sections. As in, I love offroading but have broken enough bones in my life to learn to take it easy and strike a middle ground between the adrenaline rush and my physical integrity. 😅

So I'm by no means an extreme rider (nothing Chooch-style—think of me more as a more aggressive Marty Backe). 🤣

I don't do jumps and will probably only go down stairs once in a blue moon (just because... suspension).

Based on what LeaperKim and eWheels recommend, I should go for the 62 lb option. Riders on this thread (who stick to street and urban riding and don't do jumps or stairs) seem to agree. Influencers and off-road enthusiasts (although I don't pay too much attention to the former) seem to mostly agree that for offroading, the 62 lb is too easy to bottom out, so I'm on the fence here.

I've reached out to a couple of (lesser-known) YouTubers and they both recommended the 66 lb version.

Comfort is a priority (I quit offroading because of the knee pains that come with doing so with a non-suspension wheel), but so is suspension longevity, so frequently bottoming out is also something I'd like to avoid.

So…62 lb (and higher preload & dampening values) or 66 lb and less preload/dampening? (Am I getting that right? This will be my first suspension wheel).

Thanks a ton in advance!

I would go with the 66lb variant, with no preload it will probably be pretty spot on.

[jimjam.nyc]

10 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

I love the H666...on my 16x.  I don't think it will work on the Patton.  The ChaoYang H626 is good on the Patton.  It doesn't train track as much as H666, and it leans in a little more on turns at sub 30 mph.   Of the tires shown in the picture you posted only 2 are for the Patton, and I would probably avoid both.  

I wanted the H626 but it seems to be sold out almost everywhere right now.

I do agree with avoiding the CST (just my opinion here, some people like those tires) I have had nothing but bad experiences on CST tires. Not only did I not enjoy the way it rides, I have gotten multiple flats with CST tires on my wheels.

[OliG]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Tons of invaluable info in this thread, guys! Thanks for sharing!

So…I've made up my mind to get the Patton as my next trail-riding wheel (I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!) but I'm unsure which suspension option to go for. 

I weigh between 165-175 lb (75-80 kg) fully geared up. I'll be using the Patton almost exclusively for trail riding (the legacy Sherman will remain my long distance cruiser).

I enjoy fastish cruising (up to 28 mph / 45 kph) along wider and not excessively rugged MTB trails (I'm not talking downhill tracks or anything), and take it easy in the technical sections. As in, I love offroading but have broken enough bones in my life to learn to take it easy and strike a middle ground between the adrenaline rush and my physical integrity. 😅

So I'm by no means an extreme rider (nothing Chooch-style—think of me more as a more aggressive Marty Backe). 🤣

I don't do jumps and will probably only go down stairs once in a blue moon (just because... suspension).

Based on what LeaperKim and eWheels recommend, I should go for the 62 lb option. Riders on this thread (who stick to street and urban riding and don't do jumps or stairs) seem to agree. Influencers and off-road enthusiasts (although I don't pay too much attention to the former) seem to mostly agree that for offroading, the 62 lb is too easy to bottom out, so I'm on the fence here.

I've reached out to a couple of (lesser-known) YouTubers and they both recommended the 66 lb version.

Comfort is a priority (I quit offroading because of the knee pains that come with doing so with a non-suspension wheel), but so is suspension longevity, so frequently bottoming out is also something I'd like to avoid.

So…62 lb (and higher preload & dampening values) or 66 lb and less preload/dampening? (Am I getting that right? This will be my first suspension wheel).

Thanks a ton in advance!

Same advice as @Rawnei, you should go for the 66 lbs. 

I weight 75-80 kg  fully geared up and compared to the S22 the suspension of the Patton is very soft/comfortable. I have the 62 lbs version that I choose too early before having feedback to do a better choice.
 

Of course 62 lbs is good enough for what I do: I’m a less agressive Marty Backe rider 😜😂😂😂. But for trails I think the 66 lbs is the best option and if I could change that’s the option I would select. 

Edited August 17, 2023 by OliG

[jimjam.nyc]

1 hour ago, travsformation said:

Tons of invaluable info in this thread, guys! Thanks for sharing!

So…I've made up my mind to get the Patton as my next trail-riding wheel (I've been waiting for something like this for a long time!) but I'm unsure which suspension option to go for. 

I weigh between 165-175 lb (75-80 kg) fully geared up. I'll be using the Patton almost exclusively for trail riding (the legacy Sherman will remain my long distance cruiser).

I enjoy fastish cruising (up to 28 mph / 45 kph) along wider and not excessively rugged MTB trails (I'm not talking downhill tracks or anything), and take it easy in the technical sections. As in, I love offroading but have broken enough bones in my life to learn to take it easy and strike a middle ground between the adrenaline rush and my physical integrity. 😅

So I'm by no means an extreme rider (nothing Chooch-style—think of me more as a more aggressive Marty Backe). 🤣

I don't do jumps and will probably only go down stairs once in a blue moon (just because... suspension).

Based on what LeaperKim and eWheels recommend, I should go for the 62 lb option. Riders on this thread (who stick to street and urban riding and don't do jumps or stairs) seem to agree. Influencers and off-road enthusiasts (although I don't pay too much attention to the former) seem to mostly agree that for offroading, the 62 lb is too easy to bottom out, so I'm on the fence here.

I've reached out to a couple of (lesser-known) YouTubers and they both recommended the 66 lb version.

Comfort is a priority (I quit offroading because of the knee pains that come with doing so with a non-suspension wheel), but so is suspension longevity, so frequently bottoming out is also something I'd like to avoid.

So…62 lb (and higher preload & dampening values) or 66 lb and less preload/dampening? (Am I getting that right? This will be my first suspension wheel).

Thanks a ton in advance!

I think the general consensus from many at this point is if you are riding trails at all, get the heavier spring.That being said,  I have had nothing but good experience on the lightest spring. I only ride streets and I am under 130lbs.. So my experience is not one to go by for what you are looking for.

I think its important to consider your use case more than your weight when it comes to choosing the suspension you want. Worst case is you can always swap out later on if you are not 100% happy. (obviously at a cost)

[jimjam.nyc]

Ok Day 2 on the Heidenau k38.

I pumped the tire up to almost 38psi from my usual 25psi.. It made a decent difference in handling. I think in the end I will wind up around 33-35psi. The tire still fights to stay upright, but as I come to grips with that I actually like it. The train tacking is almost gone (where the tire just kind of follows the road) and I was comfortable enough to get off the playground and into the streets a bit.

So far I am starting to like this tire quite a bit. I still need to put more time on it. It takes a bunch more work to take curves on this tire, but I think its a good thing in the long run. You need to counter steer quite a bit and kind of brings me back to when I rode a motorcycle..  The fact you need more force to take curves on this tire to me just makes it way more stable, and actually makes it easier in cross winds. I used to get blown around the road a bit with the stock tire. It just takes a bit to acclimate to it..

On the other hand, taking slower sharper turns is no problem at all. The only thing is the tire popping back up alot easier coming out of a turn.. Which again is just something to get used to.

One side effect I am seeing from the stiffer tire is the suspension now has that "clunk" more pronounced, which doesn't bother me.. it just made me think it was batteries moving around or something else.. But i think its honestly the suspension shifting from compression to rebound quicker due to the stiffer tire. It doesn't change the performance of the suspension at all.. It may seem like it due to the feedback, but it still is super smooth.

I will drop back in to update impressions in a few weeks after I really put more time in on the tire.. But so far so good!

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by jimjam.nyc

[Rawnei]

On 8/16/2023 at 4:24 PM, Cyberwolf said:

Looks like a there's  a new firmware out for the Patton...

Anyone have any details or testing/results yet?  Who's first? 

 

On 8/16/2023 at 4:35 PM, jimjam.nyc said:

Looks like the notes are:

Translated to english:

1 Optimize related functions of the switch function

2. Optimize sensitivity of switch light button

3 reduce button prompt sound

So I updated to this version, I don't notice and difference in button prompt sound, just as loud as ever.

Edit: Nevermind, restarted it couple of times and notice the difference, they made the beep "shorter" as in it just beeps very briefly.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Rawnei

[carlitos]

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

 

[Paradox]

7 minutes ago, carlitos said:

Help! My Patton arrived a few hours ago and I just took it for a spin around the block and there is a noise but I can't figure out where it's coming from. Can't be heard while free spinning. Only when riding it. The faster I go the more frequent.

It's the 66LB version and I weight about 75Kg last time I checked.

If anybody can give any pointers as to where to check or what to wiggle, that would be awesome.

 

Valve stem?