Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, Uras said:

Easy - "all else being equal" (I did say "given the same conditions"). So, all else being equal, longer travel suspension is going to be more plush / less harsh than shorter travel suspension. It's very basic. Sag is generally 30%; less if you jump. With a spring the only way to adjust sag is to tighteden the spring for less sag, loosen it for more sag (preload) - does the patton have a preload adjuster? Otherwise sag is adjusted via different spring rates (or changing your riding weight).

What I mean was that the quote you made from Hsiang was a relative reference to the Sherman-S. But if the reader has never ridden a Sherman-S before, than the reader doesn't really know how the Patton actually rides. IMO, based on my limited experience on them, they both ride pretty plush.

For me anyway, if I wanted to buy a plush electric wheel, either one would have worked.

I would speculate that when the Patton are in the hands of buyers, owners would not complain that their the Pattons don't ride plush enough.

Edited May 22, 2023 by techyiam

[Jon Wall]

I'm sure the Patton will ride quite nicely when setup correctly.  It really is surprising how many with a camera and or platform have no clue on how to set suspension up.

Countless suspension setup videos showing how to set mtb or motorcycle sag first then rebound/compression and why.   

I read people say the Sherman suspension (inverted cartridge fork)  can't be upgraded.  That's just nonsense.  The valve stacks can be changed or shuffled, oil weight can be changed, bleeds can be increased. And thats if the adjusters aren't getting the results you are after.

Just like a any other oil dampened fork can go from ok to very good with small tuning 

My Sherman s was comfortable out of the box.  But after tuning, it's an absolute Cadillac 

[unicycle bunny]

1 hour ago, Jon Wall said:

I'm sure the Patton will ride quite nicely when setup correctly.  It really is surprising how many with a camera and or platform have no clue on how to set suspension up.

Countless suspension setup videos showing how to set mtb or motorcycle sag first then rebound/compression and why.   

I read people say the Sherman suspension (inverted cartridge fork)  can't be upgraded.  That's just nonsense.  The valve stacks can be changed or shuffled, oil weight can be changed, bleeds can be increased. And thats if the adjusters aren't getting the results you are after.

Just like a any other oil dampened fork can go from ok to very good with small tuning 

My Sherman s was comfortable out of the box.  But after tuning, it's an absolute Cadillac 

could you describe exactly your steps in tuning it? 

[carlitos]

7 hours ago, Jon Wall said:

I'm sure the Patton will ride quite nicely when setup correctly.  It really is surprising how many with a camera and or platform have no clue on how to set suspension up.

Countless suspension setup videos showing how to set mtb or motorcycle sag first then rebound/compression and why.   

I read people say the Sherman suspension (inverted cartridge fork)  can't be upgraded.  That's just nonsense.  The valve stacks can be changed or shuffled, oil weight can be changed, bleeds can be increased. And thats if the adjusters aren't getting the results you are after.

Just like a any other oil dampened fork can go from ok to very good with small tuning 

My Sherman s was comfortable out of the box.  But after tuning, it's an absolute Cadillac 

I'm curious now about the extra tuning possibilities.

What do you call exactly this kind of suspension? Then I can try to find something in YouTube in that direction. Or if you already know of such videos it'd be great if you could share them 🙏🏾

[Paradox]

Just now, carlitos said:

Then I can try to find something in YouTube in that direction.

 

[Rollin-on-1]

26 minutes ago, carlitos said:

I'm curious now about the extra tuning possibilities.

What do you call exactly this kind of suspension? Then I can try to find something in YouTube in that direction. Or if you already know of such videos it'd be great if you could share them 🙏🏾

This video is very informative.  I haven't looked inside the Fastace to see their default configuration.  This will no doubt be an area of much aftermarket modding in the near future.

 

 

Edited May 22, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[stizl]

18 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

This video is very informative.  I haven't looked inside the Fastace to see their default configuration.  This will no doubt be an area of much aftermarket modding in the near future.

Great video link! Agreed that the suspension will be a focus for mods on what otherwise appears to be a great wheel. 

I’ve built my share of shim stacks for road/track and MX bikes. The range of tuning possibilities is nearly limitless, but getting it “right” for a given set of riding conditions can be difficult and each attempt can cost you hours, not counting the additional disassembly time of an EUC vs a moto fork. Still, if you have the time and patience, then changing the compression valving could certainly improve the Patton’s performance. I think the low-hanging fruit here, however, is changing the spring to a progressive type. 

The forks-type suspensions on the Patton and SS typically come with a linear-rate spring, which utilize more of their travel (under similar riding conditions) compared to progressive suspensions such as the linkage-types found on other wheels (S22, etc.). This contributes to the plush ride of the Patton/SS, but also makes it more prone to bottoming out. 

If we replace the (I’m assuming) linear-rate springs with progressive springs, we can retain the supple small bump compliance at the top of the stroke with more support mid-stroke and much better bottom-out resistance. It will also increase the vertical boost off of jump lips, whereas a better valved compression setup will decrease this, by design. 
 

Progressive springs should be relatively inexpensive and essentially drop-in components once sourced and with the suspension opened up, of course. 
 

Example of linear vs progressive rate springs:

 

[bpong]

rollin-on-1,

great video posting !  much appreciated !

[Jon Wall]

22 hours ago, stizl said:

Great video link! Agreed that the suspension will be a focus for mods on what otherwise appears to be a great wheel. 

I’ve built my share of shim stacks for road/track and MX bikes. The range of tuning possibilities is nearly limitless, but getting it “right” for a given set of riding conditions can be difficult and each attempt can cost you hours, not counting the additional disassembly time of an EUC vs a moto fork. Still, if you have the time and patience, then changing the compression valving could certainly improve the Patton’s performance. I think the low-hanging fruit here, however, is changing the spring to a progressive type. 

The forks-type suspensions on the Patton and SS typically come with a linear-rate spring, which utilize more of their travel (under similar riding conditions) compared to progressive suspensions such as the linkage-types found on other wheels (S22, etc.). This contributes to the plush ride of the Patton/SS, but also makes it more prone to bottoming out. 

If we replace the (I’m assuming) linear-rate springs with progressive springs, we can retain the supple small bump compliance at the top of the stroke with more support mid-stroke and much better bottom-out resistance. It will also increase the vertical boost off of jump lips, whereas a better valved compression setup will decrease this, by design. 
 

Progressive springs should be relatively inexpensive and essentially drop-in components once sourced and with the suspension opened up, of course. 
 

Example of linear vs progressive rate springs:

 

That spring scale on the right is wrong. The closer the coils the softer the rate with the same gage wire. You have it backwards and we are now dumbererer for have seen it

[mrelwood]

27 minutes ago, Jon Wall said:

That spring scale on the right is wrong. The closer the coils the softer the rate with the same gage wire. You have it backwards and we are now dumbererer for have seen it

A progressive spring has the coils close enough to touch each other (bottom out). As the spring  compresses and more and more coils touch, the stiffer the remaining coils are. That’s what makes it progressive.

 But I guess you could see them being backwards from top to bottom.

Edited May 24, 2023 by mrelwood

[stizl]

2 hours ago, Jon Wall said:

That spring scale on the right is wrong. The closer the coils the softer the rate with the same gage wire. You have it backwards and we are now dumbererer for have seen it

Ha, yes, the drawing is not perfect. You forgot to mention that springs don’t behave as mathematical step functions either (well, except multi-rate springs…another subject entirely).

I chose that image from the many others available online because it offers a concise approximation of the differences between linear and progressive spring forces and does so roughly in the same travel and rate range that would suit the Patton.  I figured that the image could help show those that aren’t familiar with progressive springs how they work, but of course, you can’t please ‘em all. 

[Clem604]

New pedals/footplates avaliable for the Patton

https://a.aliexpress.com/_mLpuT4M

Edited May 26, 2023 by Clem604

[techyiam]

EUC Way Of Life's first impressions on the Patton, and also of Eevees. 

 

[Mango]

Wonder if this guy is going to have problems with eevees like he had with Freemotion.

Stay tuned!

[techyiam]

As it turns out ...

Quote

Casey Bretthauer

Author

Top contributor

+2

 

Bradley Michael Spence thank you! As always you guys are awesome! Still sad about the Patton tho 

No.

[stizl]

I ordered these for $99 from AliExpress after seeing that Leaperkim wouldn’t be shipping with pads but before eWheels announced that they would include pads. They just arrived on the 10th day after ordering, which was much faster than advertised. 
 

They are clearly purpose-built for the Patton, with recessed areas on the back to clear bolt-heads, etc. I see this as positive except that it may limit adjustability, but probably still less than other universal pads without cutouts. Also included are lower pads (if you decide to remove the Patton’s stock jump pads), Nylonove-style keys to lock the pads in place, lots of Velcro, and some iridescent decals. 
 

The quality feels good to me and they are surprisingly soft…much softer than the stock Inmotion pads that came with my V12, and feel about as compliant as Grizzla pads.  Only time will tell as to their durability, but I am impressed for now. 

Edited May 27, 2023 by stizl

[Flygonial]

1 hour ago, stizl said:

I ordered these for $99 from AliExpress after seeing that Leaperkim wouldn’t be shipping with pads but before eWheels announced that they would include pads. They just arrived on the 10th day after ordering, which was much faster than advertised. 
 

They are clearly purpose-built for the Patton, with recessed areas on the back to clear bolt-heads, etc. I see this as positive except that it may limit adjustability, but probably still less than other universal pads without cutouts. Also included are lower pads (if you decide to remove the Patton’s stock jump pads), Nylonove-style keys to lock the pads in place, lots of Velcro, and some iridescent decals. 
 

The quality feels good to me and they are surprisingly soft…much softer than the stock Inmotion pads that came with my V12, and feel about as compliant as Grizzla pads.  Only time will tell as to their durability, but I am impressed for now. 

At that price point, those pads are an attractive buy even for wheels other than the Patton. The parts of it that are specific to Patton geometry and the like are a bit annoying but the product otherwise doesn't seem to be too much worse than things like the Flows or Kinetic pads: adjustability and included memorizers. Sure, many people like a more premium product or would want a different size than what these offer, but I can never complain about more options. 

I hope this little bit of self-promotion doesn't step out of line (I do not sell these pads, I have released them and the source files for free) but I recently designed a set of pads which don't integrate the jump pad into the front segment. For people who want to keep the stock pad and have a printer, they could just forgo printing my jump pad design and have something for the cost of maybe $15-20 worth of filament. 

[stizl]

5 hours ago, Flygonial said:

I do not sell these pads, I have released them and the source files for free

Thanks for sharing these.  They look good, and I especially like the high-contact-area jump pad that also doesn't protrude too far.  Nice work!

5 hours ago, Flygonial said:

At that price point, those pads are an attractive buy even for wheels other than the Patton.

I agree completely.  These cost less than half of what I paid for a set of Grizzlas and arrived in a fraction of the time.  Hopefully, the glowing inserts stay put when dropped, unlike the Grizzla reflectors.  Don't get me wrong though, I still love the Grizzlas.  The inserts on the Patton pads are a much harder material than the rest of the pads, but still feel flexible enough that they shouldn't crack on impacts and may even protect the softer part from too much road rash in worse cases. 

For reference, I have staged photos of them next to both the standard and the "Big" Grizzlas.  The Patton acceleration pads are about the same size as the "Big"s, but protrude a bit less, especially the toe pads (which also have large velcro contact area).  The Patton braking pads are closer to the standard Grizzlas, which makes for a decent pairing IMO.   

Yes, I am aware that the braking pads are upside-down in the photos.  The top side of the V12 is unfortunately not the most convenient for high pad placement, and they work better upside-down for me.

Edited May 27, 2023 by stizl

[jimjam.nyc]

On 5/27/2023 at 5:46 AM, techyiam said:

EUC Way Of Life's first impressions on the Patton, and also of Eevees. 

 

Interesting to hear his weight, and suspension impressions. Even compared to the sherman s.

Considering all of the varying opinions on the suspension spring rates. I am keeping my order with the lightest 58lb spring. Reading on this forum, I am assuming i may be one of the few with this spring. My riding weight is about 130-135lbs. My riding style is pretty casual (no jumps, no stairs, only in very rare occasions). The streets here in NYC can have some gnarly potholes and bumps though. I will post on how easy it is bottom out that suspension once i get the wheel and put some miles on it. I am not going to try and bottom it out, I want it to work as its intended to see how it performs. I will be sure to post my settings with sag, etc as well. 

Hopefully it will help put some variety in the mix on how the suspension performs. Most of the info we get here are from people riding stairs, trails, and doing big drops and jumps. While I love reading and seeing all of these impressions, it makes it tough to decide how to purchase!

Hopefully my mistake in purchasing will help others decide ;-) (that is ofcourse if this first batch comes without any technical issues preventing the wheel from riding)

 

[Rawnei]

My friend with a 62lb Sherman S was bottoming out only when jumping, he couldn't hear it but I could hear it when standing close by, 6 clicks on dampening (this of course will be individual) solved it no more bottom out.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Rawnei

[Drunkard]

17 hours ago, stizl said:

I ordered these for $99 from AliExpress after seeing that Leaperkim wouldn’t be shipping with pads but before eWheels announced that they would include pads. They just arrived on the 10th day after ordering, which was much faster than advertised. 

 

If only you posted this like 24h earlier LOL... I was checking out the similar ones from Alli and in the end I decided just to order a classic pair from grizzla. Got a memo that it might take up to 20 days to complete my order.. These look quite good.

[Rollin-on-1]

6 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

Interesting to hear his weight, and suspension impressions. Even compared to the sherman s

He hasn't tried the 66lb though. I wouldn't put too much weight on this particular data point. I think it would be a mistake for him to get the 62lb.  I am certain if he does it will be leaking in no time.  I think if he tried a 66lb he would find it plenty cushy and with less frequent bottoming out.

 

 

[Al Alcatraz]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

He hasn't tried the 66lb though. I wouldn't put too much weight on this particular data point. I think it would be a mistake for him to get the 62lb.  I am certain if he does it will be leaking in no time.  I think if he tried a 66lb he would find it plenty cushy and with less frequent bottoming out.

 

 

Wait, does bottoming out cause the shocks to leak? And if so, can anyone explain how that happens?

Anyways, leaking shocks are also an issue with the Sherman S but that is definitely caused by faulty shocks. I heard from someone whose Sherman S began to leak after less than 100 km. I really hope LeaperKim got that sorted out.

[jimjam.nyc]

4 minutes ago, Al Alcatraz said:

Wait, does bottoming out cause the shocks to leak? And if so, can anyone explain how that happens?

Anyways, leaking shocks are also an issue with the Sherman S but that is definitely caused by faulty shocks. I heard from someone whose Sherman S began to leak after less than 100 km. I really hope LeaperKim got that sorted out.

I think heavy amounts of bottoming out can damage seals and things. I also think there was a batch of faulty shocks on the initial runs of sherman s. So it can be either.

Either way,  I don't think bottoming out super hard is good for the shocks. 

From what I understand you actually want some bottoming out, it shows you are using the most of your action. But it should be minimal not frequent. 

[Rawnei]

We don't know what causes leaks we can only speculate, however fastace's own user manual says bottom out is bad and can cause leakage.