Veteran Patton 16" 126v 2220wh

[Rawnei]

If they reinforced the plastic with ridges I think it would be a lot stronger, no need to switch material.

[OliG]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

The I's hold the front pad to the part that would go over your foot.  Together they act like a Flow or Kinetic pad system.  Those little tabs with velcro are a bit confusing to me though.  It seems like a lot of extra design for something that isn't an obvious benefit.

The small plastic piece with velcro, if you are talking about the ones coming with the "patton" power pads, are markers to be slid into the pad notches to mark the position of the pads before moving/removing them.

Edited June 30, 2023 by OliG

[EDness]

make sure you check all your bolts after your first ride.  Half of them were loose.  It's so much more solid after the checking them all.

[Austin]

44 minutes ago, EDness said:

make sure you check all your bolts after your first ride.  Half of them were loose.  It's so much more solid after the checking them all.

I just went over all the bigger hex screws and found only 2-3 that could be slightly tightened on the shell/body, that said, I found 3 on the motor that were loose enough I could unscrew with just my fingers, though all the others on the motor couldn't be tightened further.

Edit: Also for just additional context: I have 78.9 miles on the wheel, mostly riding at 25-35mph 95% street (very crappy & bumpy streets), some light curbs, no stairs/jumps.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Austin

[unicycle bunny]

After lifting the newly arrived Patton into my SUV yesterday and immediately pulling my back, I decided to make a super simple loading ramp from some wood I found at the local boat club and two hinges. Can be made in under 20 min. 

 

 

[Austin]

3 minutes ago, unicycle bunny said:

After lifting the newly arrived Patton into my SUV yesterday and immediately pulling my back, I decided to make a super simple loading ramp from some wood I found at the local boat club and two hinges. Can be made in under 20 min. 

That's awesome, I was just thinking about this haha, love the design!

[Freeforester]

7 hours ago, OliG said:

I just checked again how it’s made under mine (see picture). I honestly don’t understand how you succeed to do this.
 

Congratulations 😝!

 

Bottom of battery box is closed by a strong plastic cover than the « bumper «  bottom part comes on top of it to add a second layer. Doesn’t seem to be a real weak spot.

 

 

 

Looking at the pic, it should not be beyond the wit of serious off-roader types to fabricate a simple thin bash plate to affix under the large Allen screws, possibly with a squirt of expanding foam for the middle cavity between plate and battery compartment, or some other crumple zone foam, etc. Looks like it might even be possible to slip a thin plate under the left hand screw, or even go the whole hog and fashion a corner piece affixed by all four screws above the suspension unit base  (longer screws may be used if necessary).

[jimjam.nyc]

So since this is my first Leaper Kim Wheel. I have a question for all of the Veteran owners. I noticed my voltage decreases every day by a small amount.. So far like .1 or .2

This is not a complaint.. More of just a question to know how their wheels behave.. Is this normal and does the draining stop at some point? It doesnt bother me at all, I am not so OCD about voltage differences of .1/ .2 or so. It is just interesting coming from Inmotion wheels to see voltage changing so much. I wonder if IM just hides these small changes to the user.

The other thing I noticed is the second I unplug the charger and turn the wheel on, I lose .2 volts.. Where as my IM wheel I charge to 100.8. I unplug its at 100.8 until I start moving basically. The wheel doesn't lose anything (at least on the screen) while idle for the most part.

 

[Rollin-on-1]

5 hours ago, OliG said:

The small plastic piece with velcro, if you are talking about the ones coming with the "patton" power pads, are markers to be slid into the pad notches to mark the position of the pads before moving/removing them.

This makes so much sense now, and a very welcome feature!  

[Rollin-on-1]

5 hours ago, Austin said:

I found 3 on the motor that were loose enough I could unscrew with just my fingers, though all the others on the motor couldn't be tightened further.

Were those loose motor bolts to the motor cover or to the axle?  

The ones I'm most concerned about are also the most time consuming to get too.  😒

[Rollin-on-1]

6 hours ago, EDness said:

make sure you check all your bolts after your first ride.  Half of them were loose.  It's so much more solid after the checking them all.

Did you tighten with a torque wrench?  What torque specs did you use?  

I'm planning on using the torque specs in the Veteran Sherman telegram chat book marks unless someone has a better recommendation.

Edited June 30, 2023 by Rollin-on-1

[Rawnei]

1 hour ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Did you tighten with a torque wrench?  What torque specs did you use?  

I'm planning on using the torque specs in the Veteran Sherman telegram chat book marks unless someone has a better recommendation.

For the motor screws LK's own specification is 18Nm but for steel grade 12.9 it should be 17Nm so that's what I went with on the SS.

[stizl]

On 6/30/2023 at 11:02 AM, EDness said:

make sure you check all your bolts after your first ride.  Half of them were loose.  It's so much more solid after the checking them all.

I regret to have to inform that I also have what may be symptoms of this problem.  Starting at around 45 miles total on my Patton, I thought I heard some very brief "chirpy squeaks" (yes, I said that) about every few minutes of a dirt road ride.  I initially thought it was birds in the forest, but it never happened when I stopped to listen, just the real bird sounds.   

Today, I did a 12mi singletrack ride on a rocky/rooty trail.  I heard the sqeaks a few times after I was a few miles in, but they went away.  By the end of the ride, they were replaced by light knocking sounds with every significant suspension hit.  Tonight is now teardown and tighten night.  I'll let you know what I find.  Ahh...the glory of first batch wheels.   

On a positive note, I am starting to adjust to the sheer mass of this wheel.  My intitial impressions on street, dirt roads, and gravel roads were purely positive, as in I only noticed the weight when starting/stopping.  After my first run through some tech-ey, low-speed singletrack, I started to reconsider.   This is where you really feel the weight.  I was thinking on a few occasions that "I'd rather be on the S18 right now"  But after about two hours of Patton singletrack with lots of switchbacks, it's a tossup for me.  It's the nimbleness and ability to thread, with precision, through narrow gaps of pedal-clipping rocks of the S18 versus effortlessly blasting up rooty climbs (and without beeps or loss of momentum) of the Patton.  Hopefully, after a few more hours of singletrack I'll only prefer the S18 because I won't care as much about dropping it onto rocks if I fail to clear a tech feature. 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by stizl
Rephrased knocking sound description for clarity

[Uras]

On 6/29/2023 at 7:20 PM, Critzlez said:

for anyone curious, at lowest preload and softest compression damping on the 58lbs shock as a 120lb person, I get 28mm of sag, 35% of total travel.

Awesome, and relevant, information. Compression damping shouldn't effect sag but pre load will (that is it's only purpose).

[Uras]

20 hours ago, techyiam said:

Looking at the photo, the hinge section of the pedal on the same side looks really bashed up. Are you guys claiming there were no abuse?

You should see the pedals on my 16x. I don't do jumps, just urban riding / commuting but I do try to improve my skills with curbs etc.

[Uras]

On 6/30/2023 at 1:32 PM, Cobaltsaber said:

Patton battery blew out the bottom of the frame

I imagine something like silastic to hold the battery pack to the side of the wheel will stop that from happening too. The batteries in my 16x had this - some effort to unseat them when dismantling, but not solidly glued.

[stizl]

16 hours ago, stizl said:

I regret to have to inform that I also have what may be symptoms of this problem.  Starting at around 45 miles total on my Patton, I thought I heard some very brief "chirpy squeaks" (yes, I said that) about every few minutes of a dirt road ride....

By the end of the ride, they were replaced by light knocking sounds with every significant suspension hit.  Tonight is now teardown and tighten night.  I'll let you know what I find. 

After having torn down the wheel enough to get to the motor bolts on both sides, here are my observations:

- About one fifth of the bolts I removed were under-torqued, with some barely finger tight.  These were found on nearly every area/subassembly.  The only bolts that were fairly consistently tight were the 5mm socket head bolts that mount the battery cases to the shock uppers (the black headed bolts on the sides of the wheel that you can access without removing anything, go figure).

- I had one (of eight) quite loose motor bolt, and two more were snug but under-torqued. 

- The 2cells1pack "Patton Tire Change" video covers the process and logical order of operations well.  Once you get to the point where you're done reinstalling the (left) battery pack, stop and flip the wheel over to do the same on the right side before installing the accessories.  You don't need to remove the fender.  The wheel is very symmetrical and you won't need to touch the motor cable.

- The only brief hangup I had was reinstalling the battery box for the first time...make sure that the trolley handle slider is fully seated and aligned inside the bottom of the battery box when sliding the box back on. 

19 hours ago, Rollin-on-1 said:

Did you tighten with a torque wrench?  What torque specs did you use? 

I was a mechanic for 15 years, so I went by feel.  Whatever you do, my advice is do not follow 2cells1pack's example of reassembling the entire wheel with a cordless impact driver, even if you use one of these every day for a living.  These are not precision tools, and you are almost guaranteed to end up with some mix of under and over-tightened screws, if not stripped heads/threads.  I finished tightening every screw by hand.  It is worth the extra time cost when you're already this invested in the process.

Right Side:

Left Side:

Finally, addressing some earlier speculation about the shocks' dust seals being able to be crushed when bottoming out...they will not, at least not before catastrophic shock destruction.  You can see here that there is nearly 10mm of extra inner slider exposed beyond the 80mm total travel. 

You can also see by the dust rings on the slider that I nearly bottomed out at least once so far.  For reference, this is a 66lb version, I am 175lbs, and my biggest drop so far was about 15in to flat with the compression damping set at a plush 13 clicks out from fully clockwise. I am certainly happy with this suspension performance. 

Edited July 1, 2023 by stizl

[unicycle bunny]

2 hours ago, stizl said:

After having torn down the wheel enough to get to the motor bolts on both sides, here are my observations:

- About one fifth of the bolts I removed were under-torqued, with some barely finger tight.  These were found on nearly every area/subassembly.  The only bolts that were fairly consistently tight were the 5mm socket head bolts that mount the battery cases to the shock uppers (the black headed bolts on the sides of the wheel that you can access without removing anything, go figure).

- I had one (of eight) quite loose motor bolt, and two more were snug but under-torqued. 

- The 2cells1pack "Patton Tire Change" video covers the process and logical order of operations well.  Once you get to the point where you're done reinstalling the (left) battery pack, stop and flip the wheel over to do the same on the right side before installing the accessories.  You don't need to remove the fender.  The wheel is very symmetrical and you won't need to touch the motor cable.

- The only brief hangup I had was reinstalling the battery box for the first time...make sure that the trolley handle slider is fully seated and aligned inside the bottom of the battery box when sliding the box back on. 

I was a mechanic for 15 years, so I went by feel.  Whatever you do, my advice is do not follow 2cells1pack's example of reassembling the entire wheel with a cordless impact driver, even if you use one of these every day for a living.  These are not precision tools, and you are almost guaranteed to end up with some mix of under and over-tightened screws, if not stripped heads/threads.  I finished tightening every screw by hand.  It is worth the extra time cost when you're already this invested in the process.

Right Side:

Left Side:

Finally, addressing some earlier speculation about the shocks' dust seals being able to be crushed when bottoming out...they will not, at least not before catastrophic shock destruction.  You can see here that there is nearly 10mm of extra inner slider exposed beyond the 80mm total travel. 

You can also see by the dust rings on the slider that I nearly bottomed out at least once so far.  For reference, this is a 66lb version, I am 175lbs, and my biggest drop so far was about 15in to flat with the compression damping set at a plush 13 clicks out from fully clockwise. I am certainly happy with this suspension performance. 

i just removed the top protective cover and under it almost all screws where under tightened... now need to go deeper 

Edited July 1, 2023 by unicycle bunny

[techyiam]

16 hours ago, Uras said:

I don't do jumps, just urban riding / commuting but I do try to improve my skills with curbs etc.

To smack up the inboard side of the pedal (the hinge area) will take some doing though. The rider would have to screw up a number of times.

Edited July 1, 2023 by techyiam

[Rollin-on-1]

I am pretty sure I have some loose motor bolts now too. I have about 85 miles on mine.  I'll be doing a teardown soon.  I'll report back with my findings.

 

[unicycle bunny]

My tube valve got smashed up while i was working on filling it with sealer/balancer and tube itself got punctured. Need to replace it. What's the tube size? 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, unicycle bunny said:

My tube valve got smashed up while i was working on filling it with sealer/balancer and tube itself got punctured.

What?? How?!?!

 The tube size is 3.00-12” (motorcycle), but motorcycle tubes don’t have the right kind of angled valve. Hence 16x3” (bicycle) is close enough. Make sure you get one with an angled valve stem.

[techyiam]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What?? How?!?!

 The tube size is 3.00-12” (motorcycle), but motorcycle tubes don’t have the right kind of angled valve. Hence 16x3” (bicycle) is close enough. Make sure you get one with an angled valve stem.

The other thing that is desirable, but hard to get, is an inner tube with a thicker wall. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by techyiam

[unicycle bunny]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

What?? How?!?!

 The tube size is 3.00-12” (motorcycle), but motorcycle tubes don’t have the right kind of angled valve. Hence 16x3” (bicycle) is close enough. Make sure you get one with an angled valve stem.

Short story: 

I poured in Sahara sealer and miscalculated the amount - too much. I tried to withdraw some of it with a plastic syringe, and while inserting a flexible plastic hose into the valve, I punctured the wall of the inner tube. It went straight thru like paper. I tried to inflate it and see if Sahara would seal it. It didn't. I pulled the inner tube out a bit and discovered a tiny puncture (2mm) like 1 inch away from the valve. I applied a Slime repair patch, pushed the inner tube inside, and had to use pliers to pull on the valve. Valve got smashed up a bit. I inflated the tire - it held fine for about 5 min, and then it deflated. I pulled the inner tube out again and discovered a much bigger tear all around the valve. 

The tube is definitely super thin. Sahara sealer sucks. 

Definitely need tube with a ticker wall. I searched the Amazon and found this one (but i'm not sure about the quality). Just ordered 16x3 here https://www.ewheels.com/product-category/innertubes/ 

   

Edited July 2, 2023 by unicycle bunny

[CrabChampion]

On 6/30/2023 at 5:48 AM, OliG said:

I just checked again how it’s made under mine (see picture). I honestly don’t understand how you succeed to do this.
 

Congratulations 😝!

 

Bottom of battery box is closed by a strong plastic cover than the « bumper «  bottom part comes on top of it to add a second layer. Doesn’t seem to be a real weak spot.

 

 

 

Got to take a closer look at the patton today. That plastic piece is pretty thin. The way it failed seems like it popped out past the outer plastic bumper and the battery fell out. So how much is that outer plastic bumper layer really doing? Itll protect from direct hits, but I dont think its doing much to hold the innards together