How long is it supposed to take to learn?

[johninbaltimore]

Had mine for a week and been on it maybe for an hour or two?  I went 6 inches before I fell off; now I can go about 6 feet.  I don't know if this is supposed to be fast or slow, but I don't seem to be getting much practice and I'm still making notable improvement.

One oddity:  it seems easier to balance when not moving than when moving, unlike a bicycle where the rear tire tries to steer under a falling bike and rights it automatically.  I guess without a second wheel in line, there's nothing adding lateral stability when moving, so should I be practicing balancing while still?

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, johninbaltimore said:

should I be practicing balancing while still?

Precisely the opposite!

You kind of have to take a leap of faith and do the "trust lean" (stolen from @Funky)—the wheel will stay underneath you. Many find that at about walking speed the thing will suddenly stabilize... it does. The way you stay laterally balanced is by ever so subtly turning the wheel by shifting your weight. Think of the front tire of a bike. You turn into the fall and the bike rolls upright on its front tire. The exact same thing is happening with your wheel... and you can't 'roll back upright' until you're moving.

Odd thing is that your brain can't keep up and your legs and feet get it figured out surprisingly quickly. Yes, it's terrifying, but you're still going slowly enough to bail and run when your courage is low. The wheel is very durable so no need trying to catch it (wrap it up in cardboard or a yoga mat and duct tape if you're worried about scratches).

A week isn't very long, you're going straight now... try going a bit faster and then do a very slight weight shift to one side. Then shift to the other side. An empty parking lot or tennis court is the ideal surface! Put your feet another 1/2 inch to an inch more forward on the pedals and 'going' will be much easier.

Good luck. Be stubborn. It's well worth it.

(then start saving for wheel numbers 2-6)

Edited October 19, 2022 by Tawpie

[litewave]

Numerous threads on this site about this.

See this recent one:

 

[rcgldr]

8 hours ago, johninbaltimore said:

there's nothing adding lateral stability when moving, so should I be practicing balancing while still?

Similar to a bicycle, but due to different physics, lateral stability occurs around 6 to 8 mph on most EUCs due to camber effect response to lean | tilt of the EUC causing the EUC to self-steer enough to correct for small imbalances, good enough to ride in a straight line. The issue is getting up to a stable speed and being able to stop and dismount. Extending arms outwards will help with balance at lower speeds. A rider will still need to learn how to tilt steer (inner foot down, outer foot up), even at stable speed. 

Link to a prior comment of mine about learning to ride (that OP was learning on a V8F, but my comment is generic enough), with links to videos:

https://forum.electricunicycle.org/topic/30321-my-first-euc-with-no-experience/page/2/#comment-439697

 

Edited October 19, 2022 by rcgldr

[johninbaltimore]

Not sure what keeps bicycles up, but it's not the same thing that keeps a single wheel up.  Bicycles sent off without a rider can hit a bump, go into the air, flail all around, hit the ground, bounce around, and then straighten up and continue on their way like nothing happened.  I should do some experiments rolling a coin to see how a single wheel behaves.

I've found extending my arms outwards messes up my balance badly; it's all core control. If I don't keep my legs pressed to the EUC it just flips over; and I started with an issue where when it tilted right, I would lean left and lift my left leg (can't lean left with the ground in the way, have to lift the left leg…), which of course put the weight on the right pedal and it fell to the right anyway.

Even if I get the thing moving right now, it goes off in whatever direction it wants. :|

The weird part is it has consistently been difficult to go forward, but then I'll just roll backwards with total stability.  That makes no sense.  I can't drive a car backwards better than I can drive it forwards.

[Eucner]

2 hours ago, johninbaltimore said:

If I don't keep my legs pressed to the EUC it just flips over; and I started with an issue where when it tilted right, I would lean left and lift my left leg (can't lean left with the ground in the way, have to lift the left leg…), which of course put the weight on the right pedal and it fell to the right anyway.

Let the wheel be loose between your legs. Don't touch it at all. At the higher speed you may let one leg touch the wheel. It will tame emerging wobbles. The wheel will move around between your legs and mostly correct itself. When going straight you only need to make very subtle changes.

[Funky]

Think of the wheel like wood plant on empty trash can. If weight goes left - you will fall left. Same thing to right side. While you sit completely in middle - you are keeping balance. When you start riding faster - you don't need to think about balance. Same thing as on regular bike, at stop you will fall over. But at little bit of speed, it keeps itself balanced. Same thing on EUC.

(The pedals on euc are bike handlebars - your feet are the hands..) On euc you put more weight on one pedal and which pedal has more weight it will start to turn that way. As for going forwards - you need to do the "TRUST FALL" i mean literally you need to start falling on your face, if you wanna move forwards..

Watch more videos how euc riders turn, etc.. At speed they turn with feet and upper body. At slow speeds you need only to use feet.

Do this:  Keep both feets planted on pedals, let upper body fall forwards.

<<< This right here i had the most problems myself.  For 3 days i tried riding for around 15-20 mins each day. I could not even move 1 feet. As soon as i put my other feet on pedals - i fell over.. At 4th day i simply hopped on and REALLY, REALLY  hard leaned forwards. OMG.. That did the trick, i was riding.. Same day i was already going in circles left/right without much of problems.. ~3 days later i was riding true people on sidewalks, etc.. You need to do the trust fall. When wheel starts moving - afterwards it was easy.

Also try placing your feet 1/3 over the pedals. (Toes go over the front of pedals..) Maybe you have placed you feet way to much backwards, that's why it goes backwards.  Ankles normally needs to be same position where the "L" brackets are. (The L hangers that hold pedals.) For best riding "feeling". YES, yes.. It feels like you going to "slip" off the pedals. But trust me - just do it..! 

I personally ride like that everyday now. Front of my shoes 0.75/3 goes over the front of pedals.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Funky

[johninbaltimore]

Quote

At 4th day i simply hopped on and REALLY, REALLY  hard leaned forwards. 

First day I decided I didn't need body armor, just a helmet. Third day I fell off and landed on my elbow, got the iodine, then got the motorcycle gear.

…I should recheck my body armor before trying this.

[Funky]

2 hours ago, johninbaltimore said:

First day I decided I didn't need body armor, just a helmet. Third day I fell off and landed on my elbow, got the iodine, then got the motorcycle gear.

…I should recheck my body armor before trying this.

If you're not leaning forwards "trust fall". No wonder you're not going anywhere.. Same problem i had. You literally are "trusting" the wheel to catch you. -If you don't trust, you won't go anywhere.

Here try this > Stand up and start falling/leaning forwards. Did you start falling? (Naturally you would step forwards to "catch" yourself.) Same thing you need to do on EUC!!! Then it starts to go forwards. And if euc stops working you fall on your FACE!!!! If you are afraid of falling on your face sell the damn thing.  And go get a scooter.

I just gave you the best samples how it works.. That's how i started to ride...

 

And i didn't have any gear.. Did one belly flop on ground while learning. Afterwards nothing.  (I didn't have bent knees/legs, little pothole and i fell. - You need to have your knees/legs bent all the time..)

When i started to go faster than 15km/h i got myself full face helmet, knee/wrist guards. Most times i only use wrist guards.. But same time i don't go faster than 20km/h.

That's the fun part - everyone can choose that to wear.. And how "safe" they wanna be. Also you need to take into mind where/how you ride. Busy city or ghost town with empty paths everywhere.

Edited October 22, 2022 by Funky

[mrelwood]

 

15 hours ago, johninbaltimore said:

and I started with an issue where when it tilted right, I would lean left and lift my left leg (can't lean left with the ground in the way, have to lift the left leg…), which of course put the weight on the right pedal and it fell to the right anyway.

Even if I get the thing moving right now, it goes off in whatever direction it wants. :|

Could you take a video of you riding? It sounds like you might have issues with either your posture or your speed.

Tilting the wheel from side to side is the main method of turning between 5-15 km/h (3-9 mph). But your shoulders matter a lot as well. If your torso points to the opposite direction of the tilt, strange things happen, and body armor may be of use.

If the wheel starts to fall right, tilt the wheel and your shoulders right. You'll eventually figure out how much of each works best.

15 hours ago, johninbaltimore said:

The weird part is it has consistently been difficult to go forward, but then I'll just roll backwards with total stability.  That makes no sense.

Like @Funky said, you might be standing too far back. Leveling the back of your shoe with the back of the pedal is often a decent starting point. The goal is to center your heel and ball of foot on the pedal, front to back. Nevermind your toes, they're just hangin' about.

[360rumors]

On 10/22/2022 at 2:36 AM, Eucner said:

Let the wheel be loose between your legs. Don't touch it at all. At the higher speed you may let one leg touch the wheel. It will tame emerging wobbles. The wheel will move around between your legs and mostly correct itself. When going straight you only need to make very subtle changes.

Hmm for me it was the opposite. I had to make sure my first leg was solidly in contact with the wheel so that it wouldn’t flop around. And at higher speed on my RS having the wheel loose between my legs helped avoid wobbles. 

[PLEASE_DELETE]

Deleted.

Edited March 17 by PLEASE_DELETE

[homero]

Did you panic at some point after learning? this happened to me, it was rainy and the ground uneaven.

I just panic and when to the grownd, was unsecure after that.

Edited November 1, 2022 by homero

[Cerbera]

Yes, there will be many moments of panic in your journey towards balletic excellence.

The first time you jump something, or bump a kerb hard, the first time you hit a massive pothole, or over-lean, the first time someone walks out in front of you, the first time a dog gets under your pedals, the first time a car overtakes you with 2 inches to spare, the first time the wheel twists out under you due to unexpected camber or terrain, when your wheel suddenly does something unexpected, or you get a flat in the middle of nowhere and your phone doesn't work.  The first time you fall at speed.

All these things are less panicky the second time round, and know that if you stick with it, within a year or so you will be SO confident on that wheel that you will take any and all of that in your stride without a second thought, and in a lot of cases will come to relish the challenge of the more technically difficult rides ! Think of panic as valuable XP you just have to get in the bank before you move past it.

Once you've been at it 7 years or so your body is trained so well to just do whatever is the right thing in any circumstance, and your ride path planning is so immaculate, rehearsed and efficient, that even if several terrible and unexpected things happen all at once you don't just drop your shit and fall off - you calmly find the best way out, and you do it with the sort of unassailable unerring confidence and style that can prompt applause in bystanders ! Or you fuck it right up, and fall on your face in front of a crowd  At that point the only thing to do is to stand up, and take an elaborate Shakespearean bow to onlookers and depart the scene with your wheel as fast as your aching legs allow.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Cerbera

[Tawpie]

18 minutes ago, homero said:

Did you panic at some point after learning? this happened to me, it was rainy and the ground uneaven.

I just panic and when to the grownd, was unsecure after that.

Oh yes, more than once too. Thankfully, as time goes by and mileage gets racked up the panic spots get pretty rare. Just slow down a little more when you're in a similar situation and you'll ride right through it. It just takes time and patience and a willingness not to push too hard.

[Cerbera]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:17 AM, johninbaltimore said:

should I be practicing balancing while still?

Contrary to some of the above, I would have to say yes ! Whilst still or BARELY crawling along. With practice it is possible to stay balanced on the wheel at a standstill without any movement of the wheel at all, but usually not for very long. Pendulums back and forward will keep you there infinitely if you are good at it.

But there is a LOT of value in learning how to ride in a narrow alleyway behind a deaf old lady going at 3 kph you can't considerately overtake without giving her a heart attack. Its the most difficult riding you can do maintaining an impossibly slow speed, but it can be done, and when you can do it, it's one thing less to fear. I still do 'no foot down' challenges, where I take to a town centre in a busier time than usual, and try to navigate all the little alleyways and crossings and plazas etc, despite crowds of people in places, which really ups the slow riding skills.

This was me, years ago, refining my slow-move / unpredictable crowd skills on my first ever lowly airwheel - all the fun, and additional sketchiness of trying to avoid security, who were all about the 'no' on the way back

[Paul A]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:04 PM, johninbaltimore said:

Even if I get the thing moving right now, it goes off in whatever direction it wants. :|

 

Maybe try this.

 

[Cerbera]

5 minutes ago, Paul A said:

Maybe try this.

I will just say: I tried that with a full wheely bin once. There was a slope involved. Several panicked moments later I was on the floor, the bin was disgorging itself liberally all over my head and the drive, and the wheel was off on adventures of its own... never hang on to stuff that can go a different way from you.

Another time I took pity on the trolley guy at the supermarket trying to push 30 of them, and manfully joined in, providing wheel-based propelling power. In some ways that was more successful, in that the weight of 30 trolleys is a relatively firm anchor point, and the wheel had the power to get them moving, but if I hadn't noticed the MASSIVE amount of amps being pushed through my board and stopped pushing when I did I almost certainly would have blown something and cutout. 

[Paul A]

6 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

weight of 30 trolleys is a relatively firm anchor point

 

Yes, putting some concrete into the shopping trolley would probably help to add inertia and increase stability.

 

Though this guy has a different approach to supermarket trolleys as a training aid...

 

[Cerbera]

'A lot of people think I'm nuts' he says, then trolleys himself down a hill in traffic with zero armour. In a lot of ways it was a shame we didn't get the crash he so eminently deserves  I can understand why people feel safe INSIDE their metal cages, but this dude is on the wrong side of his !

Edited November 1, 2022 by Cerbera

[Paul A]

58 minutes ago, Cerbera said:

down a hill in traffic with zero armour

 

Down hillers sometimes wear armour, but are still nuts.

Lisa Peters and friend.....two girls with long boards and immense skill.

 

 

[Cerbera]

Nice view

[plentora]

1) Without ANY support, dominant feet on pedal and find posture where it is effortless to keep the wheel next to you. Bend your knee a good amount. If it doesn't feel right, your posture is wrong. It should be effortless. Then scroll forward and back in same posture. NO SUPPORT. Bend your knee. Bend your knee. Relax.

2) Find a fence with rail at your waist/bust height. Hold one hand on the and then step on both feet on pedals. Hold on the rail. Then do forth+back movements. Do this until you feel relaxed.

3) With support of the fence rail start riding forwards. Hold on the fence as much and as long as you need. When you are ready you will start to use the fence as support less and less.

4) When you can ride next to the fence with very minimal / no support then practice getting on/off the wheel WITHOUT support again next to the fence. First use fence as support but eventually try to do it without the fence but keeping the fence as backup.

5) Now you can ride without the fence and start/stop without it, what are you waiting for? Pick up some speed and get those kilometers on your bike. You need about 200-300km until it starts to feel OK. Before that, just realize you are still learning basics and do not rush.

 

In short: find a fence with rail and stick to that for learning as long as you need it.

[mrelwood]

@plentora, pretty good advice across the board! Though there is a downside to holding on to a fence or a rail while trying to ride. I did that, and it was extremely difficult to finally let go and pick up some speed. The speed you can use a wall as a support at is so low that you don’t really learn to steer and balance on the EUC anyway. That’s why I started to think that after the back and forth phase it’s simply best to let go right away. A friend jogging next to you would be very valuable though.

 

4 hours ago, Cerbera said:

But there is a LOT of value in learning how to ride in a narrow alleyway behind a deaf old lady going at 3 kph

There is, and it is something one must learn in order to ride amongst pedestrians. But, like you said:

4 hours ago, Cerbera said:

Its the most difficult riding you can do maintaining an impossibly slow speed

We are discussing about how to overcome the issues that prevent one from even getting on the wheel properly, even with support. Learning for the most difficult riding situation is an advanced skill, and shouldn’t be in the OP’s plans until he has overcome the obstacles of learning what naturally comes first.

[Paul A]

Maybe...