How long is it supposed to take to learn?

[rcgldr]

1 hour ago, plentora said:

Self-stabilizing needs speed which means without EUC skills you cannot establish it. Speed increases stability for sure.

If you read my prior comments, I first learned to ride my V8F at slow speed, 3 to 5 mph, using arm flailing | yaw steering (flail left to steer right and vice versa), but it required constant correction for balance. I spent about 15 minutes or so of the typical beginner drills, then tried arm flailing and I was able to do laps around a tennis court on my first attempt. I then moved to a long straight where I found my V8F became stable at 6 to 8 mph and I no longer had to make any balance corrections while riding in a straight line, and this was before I ever attempted tilt steering. I was aware that nothing had clicked, but instead I was just going fast enough for my V8F to become self-stable. I had watched a lot of how to ride EUC videos, and they did emphasize speed would help, but didn't mention that an EUC would become self-stable at sufficient speed, so it was an unexpected surprise to me.

Now that I was riding at a self-stable speed, leaning forwards | backwards to accelerate | brake wasn't an issue. I then tried tilt steering (inner foot down, outer foot up), small tilts at first to see how my V8F would respond, then a weaving pattern, then large radius turns. I waited till day 5 to attempt free mount (got it on the third try). I did tilt steering drills where I would lean, then tilt inwards to straighten back up in a weaving pattern to learn how to coordinate how much to lean versus how much to tilt my V8F depending on speed and turning radius, and to develop a sense for how to adjust lean angle while turning.

Edited November 8, 2022 by rcgldr

[Mono]

On 11/8/2022 at 1:34 AM, rcgldr said:

To clarify my prior point about self-stability which occurs at sufficient speed when riding in a straight line, there's no need for tilt and imbalance lean angle be the same.

Right, I should have written "stability assumes that the wheel tilt angle relative to the rider is constant", instead of "is constant zero" (which I wrote in effect).

I guess it was never clear to me what you mean when you write that "there is a stable speed", namely whether you refer to observations or to a physical/mathematical model that we have for riding an EUC. I certainly have made the same observations, whereas I have only recently learned about the tire camber model and was trying to explore the predictions this model would make. Sorry for the confusion.

[rcgldr]

5 hours ago, Mono said:

I guess it was never clear to me what you mean when you write that "there is a stable speed", namely whether you refer to observations or to a physical/mathematical model that we have for riding an EUC. I certainly have made the same observations, whereas I have only recently learned about the tire camber model and was trying to explore the predictions this model would make. Sorry for the confusion.

The physics of camber effect is that a EUC tilted by some fixed amount will turn in a fixed radius circle, depending on tire parameters and independent of speed (within reason). For a fixed radius turn, the inwards acceleration is speed^2 / radius. 

For a riderless EUC or a rigid object attached directly above the EUC, at sufficient speed, camber effect would result in a corrective response, and the EUC becomes stable.

However, a rider is not a rigid object attached to the EUC, and the EUC can tilt and|or yaw with respect to the rider somewhat due to flexing in the rider's legs. Assume the rider stands on the EUC (with knees bent) as if standing on solid ground (on the ground, the range of movement while maintaining balance is called postural sway). A rider's momentum is basically forwards, while the EUC wanders around a bit under the rider to keep the rider balanced, at sufficient speed. This occurs even if on a mildly cambered (sloped left | right) surface, or even on a mild dirt path where camber constantly changes, despite the fact that the amount of angle in the cambered surface is much greater that the effective imbalance lean angle that the EUC is correcting for.

If the rider or EUC shifts sideways creating an imbalance, that offset results in a tilting torque on the EUC in the direction of imbalance, causing the EUC to tilt in the direction of imbalance, and at sufficient speed, the camber effect response steers and shifts the EUC inwards enough to correct for the imbalance. The corrective torques are so small and and brief that the rider is probably unaware of them.

Depending on the rider and the EUC, some intermittent mild tilt wobble can occur, but balance is maintained and the riders just ignore it. I mostly see this on videos of the S18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJK2Mn-JJfs&t=224s

On the other extreme, the girl in this video slings a back pack off and around in front of her to put in a cell phone then slings it back on, with no hint of wobble from her EUC:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5HB40I4C3g&t=438s

 

Edited November 9, 2022 by rcgldr

[Paul A]

TOO OLD to LEARN Electric Unicycle? Teaching More Beginners to Ride With New Training Brushes.

Pepperfingers

Oct 17, 2022

 

I love teaching others to ride electric unicycles -- especially those who think they could never learn! In this video, you'll meet my next victim -- a 60 year old man who's eager to ride.

We are also trying out some training brushes we learned out from Adam U.

 

[MrEUCMan]

Time has nothing to do with it. Count the number of drops / falls. After about 50, you can ride. After about 200, expert. 

[Funky]

26 minutes ago, MrEUCMan said:

Time has nothing to do with it. Count the number of drops / falls. After about 50, you can ride. After about 200, expert. 

I have dropped mine only at very, very low speed simply sideways.. (Once at higher speed while going true loose sand trail.) Maybe under 10 times together.

Seems i can't ride yet..  Last time i dropped it was about half a year ago.. (The presaid loose sand ride.)

Dammit i need to drop it so many times more - to learn to ride. 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Funky

[homero]

about Inmotion V8F, do this euc has an alarm to let you know if you are close to speed limit? I can not find anything in the app. thanks.

 

Edited December 5, 2022 by homero

[360rumors]

44 minutes ago, homero said:

about Inmotion V8F, do this euc has an alarm to let you know if you are close to speed limit? I can not find anything in the app. thanks.

 

Yes most EUCs have 3 speed alarms. Usually the first one is some really low speed, the second one is a bit faster. The third one may be based on speed or the limit of the motor. You can ignore the first one and just listen to the second one and you will still have a big safety margin.
The problem with speed alarms is that as your battery is drained, the same speed will put you closer to cutout. For example if you have a 20mph wheel, at 100% battery you can ride 20mph without cutout. At 25% battery, cutout might be 15mph or less.
so personally I think it is safer to change the alarms to be based on PWM instead of speed. PWM is like how much of the motor’s potential you are using. If you exceed 100% then you will get cutoff. Unlike speed alarms, pwm alarms automatically adjust to remaining battery voltage.

You can set alarm based on pwm in an app like DarknessBot. For example the alarms can be 65, 70, and 80% pwm. 
 

[360rumors]

On 11/17/2022 at 6:45 AM, MrEUCMan said:

Time has nothing to do with it. Count the number of drops / falls. After about 50, you can ride. After about 200, expert. 

I agree time has nothing to do with it. But I would say it is related to the quality of your practice and whether you are pushing your skill envelope. For example, 1 hour of riding off-road trail might be similar in learning potential as 12 hours riding straight at slow speed on a bike lane with no traffic. 

[Funky]

1 hour ago, 360rumors said:

I agree time has nothing to do with it. But I would say it is related to the quality of your practice and whether you are pushing your skill envelope. For example, 1 hour of riding off-road trail might be similar in learning potential as 12 hours riding straight at slow speed on a bike lane with no traffic. 

Can confirm this 100% true.

I learned on grass/sandy paths. First time going on smooth asphalt it felt odd?!?! I was like WTF - I'm missing all bumps and whatnot.  It literally felt like i was flying/gliding.  Riding on that smooth road was like walking. So effortless, so easy. 

By second day i was already going in "real world" true people, etc..

Edited December 6, 2022 by Funky

[rcgldr]

On 12/5/2022 at 3:00 PM, homero said:

about Inmotion V8F, do this euc has an alarm to let you know if you are close to speed limit? I can not find anything in the app. thanks.

With speed limit set to max (35 kph), when approaching max speed, the V8F will do a mild tilt back a bit below max speed, and in addition, beep at max speed. The V8F doesn't have multiple alarms. If you set the max speed to less than 35 kph, it seems you get tilt back and beep at about the same speed | time. You can set alarms with apps like EUC World, such as peak current, but the cycle time for the V8F to send out all the messages to the app is about half a second, so there is up to half a second delay, rendering the setting useless as an alarm when accelerating, but it can be used to let the rider know that some set limit was exceeded in the last half second, rather than guessing where and when it happened by looking at the stats post ride.

Edited December 9, 2022 by rcgldr

[isohaibmalik]

It varies from person to person depending on their learning skills. If you are overweight or you have a fear of falling down, it will take a bit longer to learn.

[homero]

thinking on power or jump pads for my V8F,  any suggestions, I am not sure if there are any power pads for this EUC.

[Mono]

16 minutes ago, homero said:

thinking on power or jump pads for my V8F,  any suggestions, I am not sure if there are any power pads for this EUC.

I have been using Kuji pads for a year or so and I really like them.

[360rumors]

1 hour ago, homero said:

thinking on power or jump pads for my V8F,  any suggestions, I am not sure if there are any power pads for this EUC.

I used to have a V8 and used the inmotion pads for power pads (to help accelerate and decelerate).  https://amzn.to/3HIpZJ1  For jump pads, either make your own or get grizzla pads.  Grizzla flow pads can be attached to more than one wheel because they have notches to mark your position so you can find your angle again easily.  Or you can position the inmotion pads lower, directly above your feet.

One challenge is being able to stick the inmotion pads to the euc, which is not so easy because the pads have a somewhat slippery texture.  Try silicone tape, which is extremely sticky https://amzn.to/3uYF7ud  . 

[mrelwood]

Power pads on a V8(F) sounds somewhat dangerous. It is a low power wheel, which at least with my size and weight can be overloaded easily even without any pads. I do see how they can add stability on bad terrain, but please beware that you can’t lean in much at all on the pads on a V8-series wheel.

 Also, the axle on V8F units was really weak up until past summer or so. If your wheel is made before that, be really careful when jumping.

Edited December 11, 2022 by mrelwood

[Mono]

7 hours ago, 360rumors said:

One challenge is being able to stick the inmotion pads to the euc, which is not so easy because the pads have a somewhat slippery texture.  Try silicone tape, which is extremely sticky https://amzn.to/3uYF7ud  . 

Isn't velcro the method of choice to place power pads on an EUC? It has the advantage that they can be easily removed or adjusted to shoe size.

Edited December 11, 2022 by Mono

[Cerbera]

2 hours ago, Mono said:

Isn't velcro the method of choice to place power pads on an EUC? It has the advantage that they can be easily removed or adjusted to shoe size.

And you need that with pads, because they take quite a bit of adjusting before you find the perfect position for them and tape only sticks effectively the first time !

[360rumors]

4 hours ago, Mono said:

Isn't velcro the method of choice to place power pads on an EUC? It has the advantage that they can be easily removed or adjusted to shoe size.

Yes but the Inmotion pads are so slippery that my Velcro doesn’t stick well to it.

[Cerbera]

57 minutes ago, 360rumors said:

Yes but the Inmotion pads are so slippery that my Velcro doesn’t stick well to it.

I can't believe InMotion's are slipperier than Begode's, and what works with Begode's is Gorilla all-purpose grab adhesive. That can go right on top of the existing glue on the velcro and, if you spread it all the way to the edges, ('flood the cowling' as James May would say) once cured, it is rock solid. 

[360rumors]

3 hours ago, Cerbera said:

I can't believe InMotion's are slipperier than Begode's, and what works with Begode's is Gorilla all-purpose grab adhesive. That can go right on top of the existing glue on the velcro and, if you spread it all the way to the edges, ('flood the cowling' as James May would say) once cured, it is rock solid. 

Is that a permanent adhesive?  The silicone tape that I'm talking about is sticky enough but is removable with no residue. 

As for Inmotion vs Begode I've had both pads and inmotion pads are more slippery iirc.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, 360rumors said:

Is that a permanent adhesive?

Yes.

[NewB]

Dagnabbit! After learning how to ride in a mere two hours, I was really cocky. On day two, I woke up with a cold, which took me off the wheel for four days. Just to make sure I don't lose it, I hopped back on yesterday ... and felt like a hot mess - I was all over the place, had wobbles, and just couldn't get my footing for a half hour. In addition, I was spooked. By the time I got a modicum of confidence, I went home to soothe my ego. Now it's cold AF and raining, and I won't be able to get back on the wheel until Saturday. Hopefully, I won't suffer any emotional damage from my first ride.

[Cerbera]

1 hour ago, NewB said:

Hopefully, I won't suffer any emotional damage from my first ride.

No no, laugh along, and try again next time 

If you have a few days off at the start it can feel like you are virtually back to square one when you next get on it - par for the course, but don't let it kick your confidence. 

I've also had a week off learning the Master (relatively new to me) due to excessive cold (is not much fun riding in snow and rain and dark) and I too will pay a small price when I get back on it, but the more you do it the faster the muscle memory kicks in and you're fine again, carrying on from where you left off. When you have had a whole Summer of 'every day' behind you, having a week off won't make anywhere near such a big difference as it does now...

[Funky]

37 minutes ago, NewB said:

Dagnabbit! After learning how to ride in a mere two hours, I was really cocky. On day two, I woke up with a cold, which took me off the wheel for four days. Just to make sure I don't lose it, I hopped back on yesterday ... and felt like a hot mess - I was all over the place, had wobbles, and just couldn't get my footing for a half hour. In addition, I was spooked. By the time I got a modicum of confidence, I went home to soothe my ego. Now it's cold AF and raining, and I won't be able to get back on the wheel until Saturday. Hopefully, I won't suffer any emotional damage from my first ride.

First winter - where i didn't ride for ~3 months.

First day riding was little bit awkward.  I could ride, but idk why it felt scary.. By 3rd day everything was fine. Also legs hurt bit for first 1-2 weeks, as you didn't use those muscles for 3 months.

It's more or less same as bike. You won't forget it, when you have learned how to ride. Now it's second winter for my. Will see how first ride in spring will be.  I bet it will be much better.

Time to time i turn it on and simply ride true my apartment.  From kitchen to living room.   Going forwards and then backwards. I think i will be available to ride backwards next year. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Funky