Sherman-S 3600wh: 100V, 20", suspension, 97lb

[MrMonoWheel]

Since I won't be owning a begode any time soon, Kujis video will ultimately be the deciding factor on if I go V13 or Sherman S for my next wheel. In other words (since I have both on the way), it will determine which I sell first.

The only things stopping me from going V13 are if the suspension is just a beefed up V11 system (plastic sliders on a metal rail), if the size/weight truly makes it unmanageable, or if the range is significantly less than the 3600wh wheels.

Aside from these 3 issues, I have a lot more confidence in the InMotion wheel being the better built, more finished and polished wheel. Not to say the Sherman S isn't, but inmotion has really put a lot of effort into this wheel and release. Under the nice exterior the Sherman is just a bit more barebones.

Edited December 10, 2022 by MrMonoWheel

[techyiam]

2 hours ago, wstuart said:

Really??  What paper are you talking about.  When has a Sherman-S cutout?

The question posed was:

5 hours ago, Freeforester said:

Going to be interesting to see how robust each model is in terms of a 45mph or above cutout, not too long to wait now, lolno!

LeaperKim originally stated that the top speed of the Sherman-S was 46.3 mph. Now, it has been increased after a firmware update.

That is why I said on paper. But the proof is in the pudding. 

On the other hand, the V13, at least on paper, has always been a 90 km/h (55.6 mph) wheel. But course, it still need to be proven.

Edited December 10, 2022 by techyiam

[Freeforester]

4 hours ago, techyiam said:

Indeed, given the number of newly released wheels which turned out to be cutout wheels in 2022.

On paper, the V13 looks to have the best chance of not cutting out above 45 mph.

Whereas, the Sherman-S doesn't look that great on paper.

Begode is Begode, so it has to be proven.

In the end the proof is in the pudding.

But should each wheel do cutout, which manufacturers would come out with a fix first. And which manufacturers will do a recall?

 

I was meaning how the chassis etc of each of the three survives such an incident. 🤔

[Freeforester]

2 hours ago, Tasku said:

All the wheels v13, sherm-s, that begode model that shall remain unmentioned - Seem to aim 90km/h performance. It might be something you have to unlock. In the sherm-S video the beeps start 75km/h (but these could be because app settings!). We saw Kuji going 91km/h and the speed meter goes "red". The closer you get to 90km/h with these models is what I would draw the guideline. That being "the limit not to cross", if that helps anyone (althou I would also consider other factors, leaving room for bumps or other unexpected to draw power suddenly). We see later on what is what.

Given bad enough conditions, there aint wheel that would not cut-out. Just seems the bar is higher with these suspension "cruisers" pushing to the motorcycle or scooter world.

Edit. I put my bet on these models being quite equal. (v13, sherm-s, and that unmentioned begode) The higher voltage aint a thing. Even people buzz about numbers, we know from past they are bit.. misleading at times. For safety it could indeed be good idea to set your beeps at 75km/h and not that "perfect weather 90km/h" setting. Leaves you room for safety if you hit bump and get a quick draw of amps.

edit2: I just had this thought that now that the top speed is going higher, "I bet" we gonna see braking wobbles increase during racing. And the races be won more on the speeding part, should there be a lot of it.

Might not the determining factor be how they each stand up to such a high speed incident? If one is noticeably more fragile than the other, it may be a consideration for the speedsters?

[MrMonoWheel]

33 minutes ago, techyiam said:

The question posed was:

LeaperKim originally stated that the top speed of the Sherman-S was 46.3 mph. Now, it has been increased after a firmware update.

That is why I said on paper. But the proof is in the pudding. 

On the other hand, the V13, at least on paper, has always been a 90 km/h (55.6 mph) wheel. But course, it still need to be proven.

Also, the V13 has a significantly higher free spin speed which should translate into more safety and reliability at top speed. That being said my cruising speed on either wheel is going to be between 30-45mph depending on the surroundings, and with the Sherman's recent bump in top speed and free spin speed I am confident either wheel will achieve that goal just fine. It comes down to the other factors at this point.

[InfiniteWheelie]

@MrMonoWheelI'll be interested to see which you end up keeping. You basically mirror my thoughts on the two wheels.

Edited December 10, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[Freeforester]

Denis’s view:

 

[Steve Evans]

folks, did we ever get word on what caused the issue with the blown shok seal on the wheel Wrong Way was riding?

Edited December 10, 2022 by Steve Evans

[techyiam]

3 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I was meaning how the chassis etc of each of the three survives such an incident. 🤔

Crashworthiness of each of these wheel due to cutouts?

Hmmm.  You are talking about 45+ mph crashes.

I am not sure I want manufacturers to feel pressured in making their wheels crash so much better at 45+ mph speeds. If they do, we may not like the compromises.

Yes, I don't want a fragile wheel either. But, how robust is enough?

Edited December 10, 2022 by techyiam

[Paul A]

For an EUC design to withstand damage at high speeds...

Perhaps have a steel exo skeleton.... similar to the internal roll cage of a rally car.

In the shape akin to a sphere, so that the EUC rolls in any direction, upon a crash.

EUC will survive with lessened damage......not so good for anything else in its path though.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Paul A

[Freeforester]

A Splyce guard is your friend and protection of the investment… it will be the sacrificial ‘bender’ if/when matters come to a head. Not necessarily only ‘due to cutouts’, but ‘events’ and/or misadventures at the upper end of the speed envelope.
 

The die is already cast, insomuch as designs are out there and the wheels are being produced - I’m talking about the -‘S’, V13 and EB ComPro -I’d like to know how well they might fare comparatively when one of the daredevils planning to ride them to the max comes unstuck.  If they smash up à la Begode, not too great value for your 4k, I’m thinking.     I’ve no interest whatsoever myself  in pushing the max speed envelope, the ‘S’ would have headroom aplenty for me, plus legs for a longer trip, ‘Denis-approved’ suspension, and I’m guessing it’s not made to splinter and explode in the event of a mishap; but let’s see what tomorrow’s V13 exposé courtesy of mr Rolls brings us - I’ve already seen the head-to-head with the KS S22 doing the flights of steps, which the latter wiped the floor with the V13, and I’m guessing the ‘S’ would also spank it;  I’ve got my suspicions about the EB ComPro, mainly centering around build quality vs. the other two, also possibly the suspension solution they are offering,  but will give all a fair hearing before putting my marker down.

To reiterate, I’m talking about the relative fragility between these three, Begodes need not apply in this instance.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Freeforester

[MrMonoWheel]

3 hours ago, Steve Evans said:

folks, did we ever get word on what caused the issue with the blown shok seal on the wheel Wrong Way was riding?

As far as I know we have not heard anything. If I had to guess it failed from how hard he rides up and down stairs and stuff. My expectation is the next major revision/batch will center around the suspension.

[Charles McLean]

3 hours ago, Freeforester said:

 I’ve got my suspicions about the EB ComPro, mainly centering around build quality vs. the other two ...

Sorry if I'm out of the loop.  I'm just anxiously awaiting the arrival (hopefully in the not too distant future) of my V13.  This is the first I've heard of the "EB ComPro" ... do you have any links or info on this wheel that you can share?  Thanks in advance!

 

Nevermind ... Extreme Bull Commander Pro ... duh ...

Edited December 11, 2022 by Charles McLean

[Jon Wall]

I feel the EB compro has lost some steam after the law suit situation 

 

 

 

[MrMonoWheel]

I feel like the Extreme Bull Commander Pro was quickly made by Begode to say "Hey look we can do that too!" when they heard of the Sherman S, from what I have seen the EBCP doesn't seem all that special. Its not even on my radar.

Edited December 11, 2022 by MrMonoWheel

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I’ve already seen the head-to-head with the KS S22 doing the flights of steps, which the latter wiped the floor with the V13

If it was the same video i saw a few days ago, the V13 had the suspension locked out so it was a bit of a misrepresentation.

[MrMonoWheel]

4 hours ago, Freeforester said:

I’ve already seen the head-to-head with the KS S22 doing the flights of steps, which the latter wiped the floor with the V13,

Yeah in that video for some reason the V13 was in the "suspension removed" mode. Not sure why they even bothered posting that video.

[techyiam]

Denis seemed to be very impressed with the Sherman-S's suspension out of the box for his use case. He doesn't feel he needs to fiddle with mods to make it better. However, he did mentioned braking was underwhelming. And he is not a light rider. This could be a concern for me since I would buy a Sherman-S for urban commuting on main roads. 

Gotta wait for a comparison between the Sherman-S and the V13 on emergency braking at 45+ mph.

[InfiniteWheelie]

I don't understand how a powerful wheel can have a lack of braking.

If you lean back it basically either brakes, dips, or cuts out. Isn't that the nature of self balancing? Maybe it's just because suspension wheels have taller pedals, so it's harder to get leverage. Surely better pads and technique are the solution. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by InfiniteWheelie

[techyiam]

10 minutes ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

Surely better pads and technique are the solution.

No question pads and technique can make a big difference. 

But also the wheel itself, and the rider's weight.

For example, Madpack used to rank the V12 and the Abrams as his two favorite wheels. But due to cutouts on the Abrams, a new firmware came out to resolve it. After applying the firmware, Madpack no longer like to ride the Abrams because he could no longer brake adequately. 

[techyiam]

@InfiniteWheelie

How are you liking your Abrams?

Are you using firmware version 2.0.015, the latest firmware?

Which pedal mode are you using:

(1) Soft

(2) Medium 

(3) Hard

I found that with the latest firmware, my Abrams stops significantly quicker in Medium mode, for the same pad setup, technique, and effort.

[MrMonoWheel]

Heres a video showing something of the app they have in development. Can't really see much due to the camera but there is indeed an app that does something which is a start. 

 

[Jon Wall]

Pedal hight is definitely a big factor to consider .  My Sherman Max corners beautifully and  has good throttle and brake manners.  

My suspension Contraption wheel uses v1 Sherman power with much higher pedals.  And it takes quite different input  to make it respond.  It really is a eye opener side by side

 

 

[KiwiMark]

I'm glad that I have Grizzla pads (flow, large) on the way.  I think that good pads will be quite important on this wheel.

[mrelwood]

 

1 hour ago, InfiniteWheelie said:

I don't understand how a powerful wheel can have a lack of braking.

If you lean back it basically either brakes, dips, or cuts out. Isn't that the nature of self balancing?

Just like we’ve often seen firmware upgrades improve acceleration and braking, the exact behavior of the acceleration and braking response is what differs enough to give different braking results.

 Even in hard mode, the wheels don’t usually stay perfectly level at all times. Like @techyiam posted above, a medium mode brakes noticeably faster. Manufacturers seem to try to design the hard mode in a way that feels solid but has a certain give in to help with braking and acceleration. On a Gotgode the rocking is pretty easy to feel, but it’s called “The GotWay glide” that some people like.

 Inmotion is the only manufacturer that lets the user adjust the pedal response in a detailed manner. This also makes braking comparisons pointless unless it’s done with various pedal sensitivity and power assist settings. We already know that a medium mode brakes faster, just like we know that a smaller tire diameter brakes faster. V13 can benefit greatly from the adjustments, but I don’t think it will still be comparable to a 18/20” wheel, unless the pedal responses are adjusted fully in V13’s favor.