HJ Posted February 18, 2016 Share Posted February 18, 2016 Question here. I just got my KS18 a few days ago and am having a blast learning to ride. It came fully charged, and after riding in a lot for almost two hours I've still got 8 bars. I attached it to the charger, for an hour and rechecked - still 8 bars, hadn't gone up to ten. When I plug the charger into the wall both the green and red lights are on. When I plug the charger into the eu the lights stay the same (i.e. The green one doesn't disappear). I'm not sure if I'm actually charging. Am I? I think it's a 4amp charger. 1360 battery, 1100 motor H Also, I did check the end of the charger with a multimeter, and it is putting out a charge, looks like about 60 V dc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 what should the charger output voltage be? 67ish? I'm getting only about 60v across the prongs when measuring with a multimeter. Any ideas appreciated. HJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You must have the wrong charger. If it only chargers to 61 and your current battery voltage is higher - this is the reason the charger tis thinking that the battery is already full and doesnt kick in. Where did you get this charger from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Came with the eu, no name or label though. I do have an icharger 206 that I use for my ebike. I was wondering if I can somehow use that charger at 5A or less if I made an adapter to fit the eu plug. I don't want to void any warranty so I'll wait for a replacement plug, but it theorectically should work, right? My ebike needs a 72v charge, (6s packs of 22 - 24v x 3 in serial), and although I tend to charge my ebike batteries with more amps because I parallel them, its the same concept right? Would the BMS circuit pose any problems trying to use this type of charger? Anybody out there using a standard charger for their eu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 You can not use the charger 206B. BMS tangle if cells ladatan even if the six-piece group. And because the charger can not be charged to all cells at once. Forget the whole thing and get EUC charger separately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Yeah, mostly just a question. I figured the BMS might be a bit complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 If you insist on using 206b you need to ignore completely the BMS. However, it is not a problem because the 206 has a good balancing of the system. However, you must install the balance cable to the battery. Still, you have to charge the battery in three installments. A maximum of six cells, it is possible to download at a time. Unless you have a three 206b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankman Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 @HJ I think the problem is the charger. It should have an output of 67,2 V. If the output is 60 v, obviously it cannot charge the batteries. If I were you, I would try to open the charger and to find the little potentiometer that regulates the output. If you have another charger that outputs 67,2 V , it is OK even if is 5 Amps. Also try to measure the voltage of the input charging port of the KS18. Be carefull of short circuits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistagear Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I've had 6 chargers from KS , each one has compliance sticker stating DC output 67.2V. Seems strange you have received one with no input/output info written on the charger ? Did you buy from authorized seller ? What country you in ? Rather than risk shorting the charging port, I'd run the App and check the battery voltage there instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 5 hours ago, EUC Extreme said: If you insist on using 206b you need to ignore completely the BMS. However, it is not a problem because the 206 has a good balancing of the system. However, you must install the balance cable to the battery. Still, you have to charge the battery in three installments. A maximum of six cells, it is possible to download at a time. Unless you have a three 206b I actually do have three ichargers. So you're saying that I would need to ignore the BMS. What do you mean, like bypass it somehow? As I understand it there are three packs (in the 1360) right? So each pack would be able to be balance charged with the 206b charger. This is all rhetorical in any event because the eu is brand new and under warranty. I'll wait for another charger, but interesting to discuss nonetheless. 4 hours ago, Frankman said: @HJ I think the problem is the charger. It should have an output of 67,2 V. If the output is 60 v, obviously it cannot charge the batteries. If I were you, I would try to open the charger and to find the little potentiometer that regulates the output. If you have another charger that outputs 67,2 V , it is OK even if is 5 Amps. Also try to measure the voltage of the input charging port of the KS18. Be carefull of short circuits. appreciate the input. I did think about measuring the pin voltage on the eu itself, but isnt this the same as the app eu voltage? Their charger came with a cord that doesn't fit US outlets, so I have to use one of my cords from a pc. My cords are rated to 125v, theirs is rated to 250v. Do you think this matters? H 3 hours ago, Mistagear said: I've had 6 chargers from KS , each one has compliance sticker stating DC output 67.2V. Seems strange you have received one with no input/output info written on the charger ? Did you buy from authorized seller ? What country you in ? Rather than risk shorting the charging port, I'd run the App and check the battery voltage there instead got it directly from KS. definitely no compliance stickers. Why have you needed 6 chargers from them, do you have 6 unicycles or have some oft he ones they've sent not worked? Every heard of this problem before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistagear Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I've bought 6 EUCs from KS and Milbay (Australia). Not had any problem with chargers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 Any charger with the correct polarity rated at 4A or less that provides a voltage in this ranges should work 65v to 67.2v, 67.2v is the max voltage without overcharging, 65v is slightly undercharge which will prolog the life cycles of the batteries. A good charger that is programable rated up to 5A called the satiator can be found at www.ebikes.ca, it is small and waterproof and you would have to make an adapter for the unicycle charging plug. Never use a charger that supplies more that 67.2v it could put a lot of stress on the batteries and cause them to overheat. A good tool for monitoring the charge is a tool called the charge doctor, and there is a version of the charge doctor rated at 10A. I recently ordered one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EUC Extreme Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 I believe that, at this point you do not know what the battery needs to be done, not necessarily feasible now beginning to plan the use of their chargers 206b. BMS must be removed entirely and replaced with equalization terminals and wires. It's a pretty tough job. The cells are 16 pieces in series and in parallel, 2-3. I do not recommend beginners first job It may be the last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esaj Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 7 hours ago, HJ said: I actually do have three ichargers. So you're saying that I would need to ignore the BMS. What do you mean, like bypass it somehow? As I understand it there are three packs (in the 1360) right? So each pack would be able to be balance charged with the 206b charger. This is all rhetorical in any event because the eu is brand new and under warranty. I'll wait for another charger, but interesting to discuss nonetheless. AFAIK, there are indeed 3 separate wrapped packs inside the KS 18, but they have more series in parallel inside those. To get 1360Wh with standard 18650-cells, you need a hell of a lot of packs in parallel, even with the highest rated 3500mAh cells. I think it was somewhere calculated that the 1360Wh packs could actually contain something like 8 parallel 16S series of 2900mAh or so cells, don't know if they're all behind a single BMS or if there are multiple. Bypassing those (or that, if it's a single BMS) will require cutting open the packs, adding connectors to all the balancing wires, bringing those connectors outside the case so you can access them... definitely will void any warranties, personally I wouldn't even dream of trying that (but I haven't worked that much with batteries myself anyway, ordered my custom packs pre-made). 7 hours ago, HJ said: appreciate the input. I did think about measuring the pin voltage on the eu itself, but isnt this the same as the app eu voltage? Their charger came with a cord that doesn't fit US outlets, so I have to use one of my cords from a pc. My cords are rated to 125v, theirs is rated to 250v. Do you think this matters? I think (but don't know for sure) that the chargers typically should work just fine either between 110V-240V mains or so. But still it should output something like 67.2 - 68V (if memory serves, my Firewheel charger outputs 67.8V, but that could be due to a voltage drop caused by an reverse polarity protection diode in the BMS). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankman Posted February 19, 2016 Share Posted February 19, 2016 @HJ Don't bother about cords, it doesn't matter. Your charger should supply about 67 Volts. If it isn't so ( you said it has an output of 60 Volts ) THIS IS THE PROBLEM. Before thinking to open the EU and battery packs or other inside the EU, please try to use another charger that has a correct output of about 67V (it can be from 66,8V to 67,6V and also consider a little error due to your multimeter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 19, 2016 Author Share Posted February 19, 2016 Sound advice. I think you're correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 Still waiting to hear from Kingsong about them sending me another charger. I have another question about something else, while doing some investigating I notice that when I try to get a voltage reading across the pens on the chargibg receptacle on the euc, of course being very careful not to short anything, I don't get any voltage reading at all. Could this mean I have a problem with the pin connection from the charging receptacle? Should these pins be live? Again, from the very beginning, when I plug in the charger, the two LEDs (one green and one red) are both lit up, and there is no change in either, as if the load is ever seen by the charger. Could there be a non-connection issue from the receptacle to the BMS? Especially the two pins that correspond to the live charging leads, Should they not be showing a voltage differential? Your thoughts? H This is with the app showing voltage of basically 60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 45 minutes ago, HJ said: Still waiting to hear from Kingsong about them sending me another charger. I have another question about something else, while doing some investigating I notice that when I try to get a voltage reading across the pens on the chargibg receptacle on the euc, of course being very careful not to short anything, I don't get any voltage reading at all. Could this mean I have a problem with the pin connection from the charging receptacle? Should these pins be live? No Problem. There is a reverse polarity protection diode which hinders you on measuring the voltage. 45 minutes ago, HJ said: Again, from the very beginning, when I plug in the charger, the two LEDs (one green and one red) are both lit up, and there is no change in either, as if the load is ever seen by the charger. Could there be a non-connection issue from the receptacle to the BMS? Especially the two pins that correspond to the live charging leads, Should they not be showing a voltage differential? Your thoughts? H This is with the app showing voltage of basically 60 Theoretically there also could be a non connection issue from the receptacle to the BMS. But anyhow - your charger does not deliver enough voltage, so you cannot charge your battery pack with it. Once you get a new working charger and it still does not work you can look at the connections. With the voltage inversion diode you will not measure any voltage with a normal multimeter - so everything seems to be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankman Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 I fully agree with Chriull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 21, 2016 Author Share Posted February 21, 2016 I appreciate it. Just so frustrating, I want to get ridin'. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checho Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 There is an xt-60 connection from the main battery to the motherboard, that is one location where it is easy to check the main battery voltage. Remember current flows from larger voltage to lower voltage, when voltages are equal there is no current flow. In the case of a charger it must be able to supply 67.2v but under load. To check the charger voltage under load a tool like the new charge doctor works, or using a T plug Y style cable connected to the main battery pack charge port, the other end to the unicycle charge port, and the other end to a voltmeter, after plugging in the charger the voltage at the T connector should increase slightly, if it does not increase there is no charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 Much appreciated. I'll get a Charge Doctor for sure. Another question, as I wait for KS to send another charger (they said they would), I did take a quick look at the packs and everything looks good. I noticed that I can fairly easily get to the battery pack leads. If I wanted to somehow directly charge the packs, how easy would this be to do? Could I do this using a regulate charger? The voltage on the packs right now is 59v. I think these are 16s packs, in parallel. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 1 hour ago, HJ said: ... Could I do this using a regulate charger? Yes, you can use a regular li-ion charger - as for example written about here: You just have to be sure to have an appropriate and reliable charger for liion (http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries) suitable for 16sXp packs (max voltage and max current!) 1 hour ago, HJ said: The voltage on the packs right now is 59v. With 59V/16=3,69 they have about nominal voltage for liion (~3,7V) right now. 1 hour ago, HJ said: I think these are 16s packs, in parallel. For 1360Wh with 16s1p packs you would have about 8 packs in parallel! I assume you have 4 16s2p packs? - they are quite common for EUCs. 1 hour ago, HJ said: ... I noticed that I can fairly easily get to the battery pack leads. If I wanted to somehow directly charge the packs, how easy would this be to do? ... Just be very carefull if you want to divide the packs and charge them seperately and then "unite" them again - if they have some voltage difference the will distrubute the charge-difference between themself without any limitation! Anyhow - if you touch the battery packs you should be quite sure about what you do. Noone wants to experience a sudden discharge of a 1360Wh battery pack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 True dat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJ Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share Posted February 22, 2016 51 minutes ago, Chriull said: Yes, you can use a regular li-ion charger - as for example written about here: hey have about nominal voltage for liion (~3,7V) right now. For 1360Wh with 16s1p packs you would have about 8 packs in parallel! I assume you have 4 16s2p packs? - they are quite common for EUCs. I am somewhat familiar with lipo charging as I have an ebike (72v) that I charge a lot. Just not sure of the whole '16s' thing. My charger (Icharger 206B) is rated to charge up to 8 lipos in serial (the lipos I use for the bike are the standard 'brick' type 6s - 22 volt packs), but it sounds like I have packs of 16 of the 'battery' type cells. Does it matter that this is more than 8 lipos in serial? Or is it just the voltage going in thats important. Also, with the BMS that I'm assuming is attached to the battery pack under the shrink-wrap, will it stillwork or need to be bypassed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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