EX20s Shock Replacement

[GoGeorgeGo]

 

This was a super simple upgrade to the shock on my EX20s. I was afraid i would need different spacers or it would be a hassle but it was incredibley simple. Just popped right in there. An easy upgrade for anyone who feels the need. The stiction in the system is also extremely low, a great and simple design here by gotway. Im really excited to get out and test it now with the shock finally working

(my stock shock leaked air and was unuseable, although gotway claims to be using a new shock in production units since they sent me this one. They are sending me one of the newer shocks to try so i will demo that one when it arrives since swapping it in was so simple.)

This is the exact shock i used for this upgrade  i bought the 200mm varient although the 190 would have fit also i think:

 

DNM Damping 3 System Mountain Bike Air Rear Shock Rebound/Lock Out/Air Pressure Adjustable AL 7005 Shark/AL 6061 Shock Body 165mm (6.5") x 35mm 190mm (7.48") x 50mm 200mm (7.87") x 55mm https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00R5OA7HA/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_i_2FGRAWV0NHQKQGGQFMCS?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

Feel free to ask any questions! 

Edited March 24, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[GoGeorgeGo]

WARNING!!

I just found out the hard way that you need to fill the top chamber before installation 🤦

Because the valve on this particular shock is at a slight angle, there is no way to pump it once it has been installed because you can no attach any hose to it. There is just enough room for a cap to screw on and off, but both of my shock pumps are yo long to fit at the angle of the valve

[Paradox]

11 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Because the valve on this particular shock is at a slight angle, there is no way to pump it once it has been installed because you can no attach any hose to it. There is just enough room for a cap to screw on and off, but both of my shock pumps are yo long to fit at the angle of the valve

Would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Masters-8029-Valve-Extenders/dp/B0002F6688/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=valve+extender&pd_rd_r=643f4009-aa6b-4363-a3f2-65a697145776&pd_rd_w=XDDyC&pd_rd_wg=aQXNz&pf_rd_p=4fa0e97a-13a4-491b-a127-133a554b4da3&pf_rd_r=SSRMZKJ6MAMD4MEJMD1R&qid=1648155840&sr=8-19

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 hour ago, Paradox said:

Would this work?

https://www.amazon.com/Wheel-Masters-8029-Valve-Extenders/dp/B0002F6688/ref=sr_1_19?keywords=valve+extender&pd_rd_r=643f4009-aa6b-4363-a3f2-65a697145776&pd_rd_w=XDDyC&pd_rd_wg=aQXNz&pf_rd_p=4fa0e97a-13a4-491b-a127-133a554b4da3&pf_rd_r=SSRMZKJ6MAMD4MEJMD1R&qid=1648155840&sr=8-19

No unfortunately getting it on is impossible. Because of the way it sits at a slight angle anything taller than the cap will contact the swing arm and make it impossible to attach. You just need to pump the top before installing. Or take it half off and pump the top. Luckily its super easy to pop on and off, i can do it now in about 10 minutes or so. And also the top chamber really doesnt need much adjustment. But still not ideal

[Paradox]

9 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

No unfortunately getting it on is impossible.

Could you attach it before you mount the shock?  Leave it on?

[GoGeorgeGo]

1 minute ago, Paradox said:

Could you attach it before you mount the shock?  Leave it on?

Hmmm maybe, i can try it and let you know what happens. Although honestly you really dont need to adjust the top chamber ever so while its inconvenient its not critical imo

Edited March 24, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[Tawpie]

make a suspension brick! (long sordid tales in the S18 thread about the brick)

[GoGeorgeGo]

9 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

make a suspension brick! (long sordid tales in the S18 thread about the brick)

Unfortunately it doesnt much matter if the suspension is extended or compressed. Its just the way the shocks valve is angled makes it impossible to access while installed. I tried to upload a video but its to big and wont let me. I have to load it to YouTube so you can see what i mean more clearly

[GoGeorgeGo]

 

[Tawpie]

I wonder what the 'optional' shock AlienRides is putting into the Hero is, maybe that would work? Superficially the suspension linkages are similar, and KellyC/shibby_time were able to pump the shock up on a Hero.

[Planemo]

Virtually all MTB air shocks work just as well inverted. If this is possible to do within the linkage constraints, maybe this would put the valve in a suitable place?

Edit: just seen the vid - you have it inverted alread...try it the other way up?

Edited March 25, 2022 by Planemo

[GoGeorgeGo]

39 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Virtually all MTB air shocks work just as well inverted. If this is possible to do within the linkage constraints, maybe this would put the valve in a suitable place?

Edit: just seen the vid - you have it inverted alread...try it the other way up?

That would take some working to make happen. The top and bottom seemed to be ever so slightly different sizes when i whent to install it. Im not really worried about it though. Im not going to be adjusting the top valve ever nd if i have to, it literslly takes less than 5 minutes to pop it off and pump it

Edited March 25, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[Planemo]

Fair enough. The top and bottom eyelets should be the same size though - either 0.5" or 12mm depending on what DNM feel like doing. Everything should be 12mm nowadays though.

[GoGeorgeGo]

16 minutes ago, Planemo said:

Fair enough. The top and bottom eyelets should be the same size though - either 0.5" or 12mm depending on what DNM feel like doing. Everything should be 12mm nowadays though.

Hmm maybe they where the same, but it was extremely tight to the point i couldn't fit it on one end and fit much better on the other. Since it was the "proper" way (same way the stock shock was installed) that fit best, i just assumed the sizes must be slightly different. 

[Planemo]

I wouldn't expect the bush tolerances on the DNM to be particularly accurate....nor the Begode outer pin diameter tbh. Mix the two together and I wouldn't be at all surprised one was tighter than the other.

[FrenchUsa]

this one is single chamber and no issues of having to pump 2 valves, few have been installed on Begore Hero:

https://www.dnmshock.com/products.php?func=p_detail&p_id=18&pc_parent=13

[Planemo]

It's virtually unheard of to use dual filling ports in the MTB world, in fact I think DNM (and even lower tier no name brands) are the only ones that do. Even the bottom dwellers of the Fox/Rockshox range use a single port with negative chamber equalisation taken care of via an internal transfer port in the air can.

It saves an awful lot of hassle when setting up. Additionally, being able to easily get cheap seal and service kits for Fox/Rockshox it would be very difficult for me to be steered into using DNM on an EUC, especially when for example a RS Deluxe can be had new for £80:

RockShox Deluxe Select MTB Rear Shock | Chain Reaction (chainreactioncycles.com)

Not saying DNM don't have a purpose, I fitted one to my Mrs bike, but it does about 4.5 miles a year and neither do I have access problems to the valves.

[EMA]

good to know, master probably will be the same

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

On 3/25/2022 at 3:17 AM, FrenchUsa said:

this one is single chamber and no issues of having to pump 2 valves, few have been installed on Begore Hero:

https://www.dnmshock.com/products.php?func=p_detail&p_id=18&pc_parent=13

I see Begode Hero shock's "frame" is different than on the EX20S, so I wonder if the same one would work. 

I also wonder if there is some sort lf a list, or a way yo know, which shocks are compatible? 

In a few weeks, I'm going to receive one from same batch as @GoGeorgeGo (or even earlier actually, from when there was only HT version), so I'm sure enough it will come with the leaking shock as well, so want to buy a compatible shock in advance not to loose time. 

Also, what is the difference between using a 190 or a 200mm one? Will pedals be higher or lower with one of them? Or part of the travel is never used on the 200mm one? 

Maybe also worth knowing what is the maximum travel a shock can have without causing damage to the wheel or shock? 

I guess diameter of eyes/holes and width also need to be taken into consideration when it comes to compatibility 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Jean eRide.ie Community

[GoGeorgeGo]

4 hours ago, Jean eRide.ie Community said:

I see Begode Hero shock's "frame" is different than on the EX20S, so I wonder if the same one would work. 

I also wonder if there is some sort lf a list, or a way yo know, which shocks are compatible? 

In a few weeks, I'm going to receive one from same batch as @GoGeorgeGo (or even earlier actually, from when there was only HT version), so I'm sure enough it will come with the leaking shock as well, so want to buy a compatible shock in advance not to loose time. 

Also, what is the difference between using a 190 or a 200mm one? Will pedals be higher or lower with one of them? Or part of the travel is never used on the 200mm one? 

Maybe also worth knowing what is the maximum travel a shock can have without causing damage to the wheel or shock? 

I guess diameter of eyes/holes and width also need to be taken into consideration when it comes to compatibility 

Well i can tell you the 200mm shock doesn't extend completely after being installed. So the 190 is probably a better fit. I doubt pedal height will effected as your pumping to full extension anyways. Less pressure will result in lesser pedal height, but it feels better with "correct" pressures imo.

Im running 280lbs of pressure in my dnm shock now and that produces like a 25-30% sag for me. Feels solid.

I believe they are using the same shock for the master but i cant confirm that. The linkages are different though. 

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

I'll be going ahead with the ROCKSHOX 2016 MONARCH R

Let's see how it goes. Rockshox have a larger eyelet diameter than DNM.

https://www.alltricks.com/F-32732-amortisseurs/P-102790-rock_shox_2016_rear_shock_monarch_r_soloair_mid_comp_black

I found this as the eyelet solution:

The kit size that fits the EX20S linkage (8x54mm) is different than for S18 (8x50mm) (8mm rod inner space, 55mm wide), 8mm rod is standard, I doubt it is different. @GoGeorgeGo please confirm.

So I've been looking for those 12.7x8x54mm mount kits for RockShox, very hard to find:

0 in stock (EU): https://www.alltricks.pt/F-201990-roulements/P-1067037-rockshox_vivid___monarch___ario_3_2_spacers

1 in stock (EU): https://www.fahrrad.de/rockshox-daempferbuchsen-set-metrisch-imperial-8x54mm-3-stueck-M1013876.html?cgid=300863

Custom made (UK): https://www.tftuned.com/custom-tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm/p2939

If there was 2 in stock in EU, I would go for that, but I'll have to go with the UK custom ones, at a higher cost.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Jean eRide.ie Community

[Jean eRide.ie Community]

This doesn't look standard at all. 

Normally there is a 54mm long, 12mm OD, 8mm ID metal/silver part and a 8mm bolt inside. 

However, it looks like in this case the bolt itself is 12mm OD and is where the Shock sits directly? 

In that case, the custom kit I mentioned above may not be enough, and I also need to get a 75mm or 80mm long shock flat surface 10mm OD bolt with the 8M thread hole on the other end (probably hard to find). 

Also seems like the red metal has a 12mm hole in it, so the shock I got uses 12.7mm, but that hole is 12mm, so I'd get a 54mm long 12.7mm kit and then need to fill the 12mm hole with nylon washers with 8 or 10mm inner hole, 12mm outer, 10mm wide (or lower multiple). 

I'm starting to think I may have to wait until I can see/measure the parts myself to be sure of what to order, even if that means waiting a bit longer to be able to ride if the original shock leaks air (likely). 

 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jean eRide.ie Community

[GoGeorgeGo]

Welp so much for this shock swap. The DNM shock i used is already leaking its air as well.

I think its likely because i exceeded the recommended maximum pressure. From what i could find it was max rated for 250 pounds. But 250 pounds just wasnt strong enough still it sagged to much still. I found someone online who claimed to have put 300 lbs inside so i bumped it up to 285-290ish which was just about right for me. Next day it was flat...

So this tells me 2 things.

1) the suspension design is very low friction and is transfering all the weight to the shock. The wheel is 100 lbs minus maybe 20 for the wheel and motor so call it 80 lbs. And im 185lbs but closer to 205 lbs all geared up. Which put me at 285 pounds unsprung weight which is exactly what pressure seemed to be perfect for me.

2) i am going to need a higher quality and higher max pressure shock for the ex20.

Im not sure what the new shock that begode is sending me is rated as. Hopefully it has a high maximum pressure or else i may wind up in the same situation again. I will not recieve it for another month or so however soooo its time to send back this DNM shock and order something different.

Edited April 14, 2022 by GoGeorgeGo

[Planemo]

40 minutes ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

Welp so much for this shock swap. The DNM shock i used is already leaking its air as well.

I think its likely because i exceeded the recommended maximum pressure.

This was one of my concerns about shock swaps on an EUC, due to them being designed (generally) for use on an MTB where the weight of bike and rider is shared with the front end as well.

It's another reason why I like coil shocks for EUC's as the spring poundage's generally go higher.

You could always try a different air shock. One of my el cheapo RockShox is rated for 325psi, which I think is par for course for Fox and Rockshox air shocks.

[Planemo]

On 4/12/2022 at 5:51 PM, Jean eRide.ie Community said:

 

Also seems like the red metal has a 12mm hole in it, so the shock I got uses 12.7mm, but that hole is 12mm, so I'd get a 54mm long 12.7mm kit and then need to fill the 12mm hole with nylon washers with 8 or 10mm inner hole, 12mm outer, 10mm wide (or lower multiple). 

 

It sounds like there is a mix up between metric and imperial.

Rear shocks used to be 1/2" bore with eye to eye lengths of say 6.5" and strokes of 2".

For a few years now, rear shocks have been metric and so swopped to a 12mm pin and use e2e of say 190mm with strokes of 50mm.

I have no idea what DNM are using. Fox and RS went over to metric years ago.

All shocks should be using bushes in the eyes, the i.d. of which should be either the aforementioned 12mm or 12.7mm/0.5".

If you can see a red colour on the i.d. of the bush, it will be a plastic. Sometimes the plastic is black as well though. The red stuff is generally better for durability.