meepmeepmayer Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, AndyBill said: I’m not real worried about it but just curious. Sounds to me your fast charger isn't so great. Or the voltage just gets displayed wrong. I'm 99% sure plugging in your stock charger will get you your 84V. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Sounds good, I’ll give it a try with the stock charger. I might need to return that fast charger, it’s brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, AndyBill said: The charger reached a full 84 point something volts and the charger light turned green. I checked the voltage with DarknessBot in the morning after the wheel sat overnight and the app said something like 82.4 volts. This comment depends on the firmware you're running... if you're on 2.09 or lower the wheel stays powered up after the charger decides it's "done" (the eWheels fast charger turns itself off when it thinks it's done), and the wheel drains the battery. Letting it sit overnight after it hits 84V will certainly drain it down... 82 is not unreasonable. This could be completely normal! Firmware v2.10+ is different, the wheel powers off at some point so no vampire drain and your wheels should stay at close to 84V. But I'm not certain "why" it powers off, I'd hope it was because the BMS decides that balancing is complete but I haven't monkeyed around to see 'for sure'. Also, know that the wheel reports to the apps can be off by as much as 0.5V. It's not really a problem for the reading to be 'off' by that much, you're looking for consistent charging behavior as much as anything. I use the eWheels fast charger to get to 80%, then finish with the super slow 1.5A stock charger. The stock charger is silent, and the current required to finish the CV stage is 1.5A or less so it doesn't slow down the finish+balance any. BTW, the stock charger doesn't turn itself off when it thinks it's done. Edited March 25, 2022 by Tawpie 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 6 minutes ago, Tawpie said: This comment depends on the firmware you're running... if you're on 2.09 or lower the wheel stays powered up after the charger decides it's "done" (the eWheels fast charger turns itself off when it thinks it's done), and the wheel drains the battery. Letting it sit overnight after it hits 84V will certainly drain it down... 82 is not unreasonable. This could be completely normal! Really good point. If the wheel stayed on after charging, of course the batteryis lower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 I install the latest firmware when the wheel arrived and I even cycled the power on and off when the charging was completed so I’m certain the wheel did not stay on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, AndyBill said: I install the latest firmware when the wheel arrived and I even cycled the power on and off when the charging was completed so I’m certain the wheel did not stay on. Ah. In that case you're probably at 2.09 so turning the wheel on and off after green-light+hour-or-two is my recommendation. Honestly, I don't quite trust the eWheels fast charger's cutoff—they assure me it's fine but the silence of the stock charger is a blessing so I'll stick with using fast to 80% and slow for the end game. Edited March 25, 2022 by Tawpie 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 Thank you Tawpie, that’s a great recommendation. I’m going to ride this afternoon, so I’ll deplete the battery a little bit and then I’ll try the slow charger and see what my results are and report back. I really appreciate all of the very knowledgeable and helpful replies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 I am charging now with the stock 2.5A charger. DarknessBot is showing a negative charging Amperage. Is this normal behavior? The battery voltage is increasing slowly. The KingSong app also shows a negative charging amperage. Very strange. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted March 26, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 26, 2022 negative means current is going into the battery, positive means it's coming out. Negative is exactly what it should say when charging! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Well, I just learned something new - thank you so much! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 I I charged fully using the stock 2.5 amp charger. I let the charger stay plugged for an hour or so after the light on the charger turned green. Monitoring the voltage in DarknessBot, it settled down and did not climb any more during this time. The max charge achieved was 82.79 volts. I am thinking that the computer is just not reporting the voltage 100% accurately. The wheel rides perfectly and the range seems to be great so far. Perhaps as the battery gets more usage it will charge to a higher voltage? I am not going to worry about it at this point and just enjoy the ride and see how things go for a few weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted March 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 27, 2022 You're "probably" ok, but full charge to only 82.8V is lower than my comfort level allows. I'd want to see 83.5V or higher. Be sure to tell your retailer right away, I have a feeling you got a bad battery. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 You can't have a bad cell, because then your voltage would max out at 79.8V, and you are way above that. So it's certainly not that. I'm on the side of "don't worry too much and see what happens". But it can never hurt to ask your seller if he has any input on that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 On 3/25/2022 at 1:53 PM, AndyBill said: I charged the wheel fully last night using the eWheels style fast charger. I set the charger to 3A, 100%. The charger reached a full 84 point something volts and the charger light turned green. I checked the voltage with DarknessBot in the morning after the wheel sat overnight and the app said something like 82.4 volts. Would this be considered normal? You followed up what the cause of this was? 16 hours ago, AndyBill said: charged fully using the stock 2.5 amp charger. I let the charger stay plugged for an hour or so after the light on the charger turned green. Monitoring the voltage in DarknessBot, it settled down and did not climb any more during this time. The max charge achieved was 82.79 volts. I am thinking that the computer is just not reporting the voltage 100% Could theoreticly be a very inaccurate motherboard measurement - charger showing 84V and wheel reporting 1.2-1.6V less. But if still within warranty get in contact and/or return it to the reseller! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 27, 2022 Share Posted March 27, 2022 (edited) Thank you all for the input. I will send a message over to the seller - (EUCO.us) and see what they say. I just got this wheel a few days ago so hopefully they will stand behind the product. I will report back what they say. Edit: I also tried sending a message directly to KingSong. It will be interesting if they reply and have any input. Edited March 27, 2022 by AndyBill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 I was able to get a hold of EUCO via phone. They asked me to fully charge my 16x using the fast charger and take a screenshot of the voltage in the KingSong app to send to them. The wheel only charged to 82.2V and the battery percentage in the app showed 0%! The guy I spoke with at EUCO agreed there is definitely an issue with my wheel and said that they will get in touch with me tomorrow on the next steps in the return process. It sounds like they are open to doing a repair or perhaps an exchange since it’s so new. I guess we’ll see what happens next. Kind of disappointing that such an expensive unit had issues straight out of the box. Makes me wonder I should have gone for an 18xl or maybe a different brand wheel altogether. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tawpie Posted March 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 29, 2022 The 16X's reliability is on par with the 18XL... but duds do happen (with everything). Good that EUCO is going to take care of you! FWIW, my 16XS (upgraded to 1554 Wh) is nearing 3k miles. The only issues have been the first supplemental battery I received was damaged in transit (and only charged to 82.5V—it was replaced) and taking it apart I managed to break both of the microswitches for the lift switch (now repaired). Other than that, it's been entirely trouble free—ridden mostly when it's not raining, but I've ridden in the rain and a fair amount in the snow. Beat the tarnation out of the thing learning to ride and learning to ride trails... both are pretty hard on the equipment. When you do get it back, I recommend RideOn or other tire sealant. A flat is no bueno. Then just follow normal good charging practice (green light+1 or 2 hours every time you charge) and you literally shouldn't have to do anything else. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazarinho Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Tawpie said: The 16X's reliability is on par with the 18XL Agreed! I've around 9000km on my 16X, still on the stock tire, though it's getting thin. I've beat the hell out of it on every surface conceivable in five different countries. Dropped it 5m over an edge after clipping the pedal on a tree root on a trail. I try to avoid bad weather but sometimes you get caught out or have no choice, so it's been through thunderstorms, hail, snow, and even been half submerged in a puddle when I fell due to a hidden pothole on a flooded road. My wheel probably hates me, but I love it! Edited March 29, 2022 by Tazarinho spelling and elaborating 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post meepmeepmayer Posted March 29, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, AndyBill said: The guy I spoke with at EUCO agreed there is definitely an issue with my wheel Hadn't expected that. 7 hours ago, AndyBill said: Kind of disappointing that such an expensive unit had issues straight out of the box. Makes me wonder I should have gone for an 18xl or maybe a different brand wheel altogether. You were unlucky, but no other brand or model would have helped. All EUCs are amateur level China crap with laughable quality control if you have "Western" expectations. The good thing is, once you have a working wheel, it is going to be a working wheel forever. There are so few parts, and no wear except for the tire. Just some riders (like you) have to go through this discouraging bump right at the beginning, when a wheel is defective or fails right at the start due to lack of QC. But now you are over the bump (hopefully) and the good times will start soon (once you get your replacement)! Edited March 29, 2022 by meepmeepmayer 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robse Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 On 3/24/2022 at 6:48 PM, Chriull said: Unfirtionately that's a way to destroy the battery ;( There are many duscissions about this topic already - one can google for site:forum.electricunicycle.org 80% charging Here one video about this topic: Edit: deleted "the fastest way" as there are many other ways to destroy li ion batteries faster... 100% Agree on that. Charging to 80% is (sorry for that word) st*p*d. I have at least 500 charge cycles (in theory) in my battery pack. 500 * 60 miles... thats 30000 miles / 48000 km of full fun :-) . Charging only to 80% leaves me with the half of that at "full speed" or whatever i like to do or go. And to what benefit? in 30000 miles from now my wheel is beaten up and ready for a change, so whats the point? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I appreciate the encouragement to stick with the 16x. Kudos to EUCO for stepping up and being willing to take care of the issue. I’m shipping it back today. It’ll be interesting to find out what the issue turns out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Ron Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 when I got mine it did charge up all the way either, I was told to go and run it for a while and it should settle out. after about 4 charges and run out cycles and its working good. There my be nothing wrong with yours. How many cycles have you run through it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 I think mine has been three charging cycles. I guess it can’t hurt to have it checked out. If nothing is wrong at least I know it’s all good to go for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chriull Posted March 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2022 1 hour ago, AndyBill said: I think mine has been three charging cycles. I guess it can’t hurt to have it checked out. If nothing is wrong at least I know it’s all good to go for sure. If an euc li ion battery needs charging cycles it was unbalanced! Which is a no go for a new battery from the factory - something went/is wrong if a new battery is not perfectly balanced. Smartphone batteries and others using a joule counter for state if charge measuring are sonething totaly different - they need some cycles to calibrate. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBill Posted April 26, 2022 Share Posted April 26, 2022 Just a quick update, EUCO has had my 16X for three weeks now. They said it was supposed to be repaired and shipped back by last Friday, but so far nothing has been finalized. They haven't let me know if they ever found out what the issue was. I'm at the point now where I asked them just to keep the unit and process a refund, and charge a restocking fee if they need to (I only had the unit about a week before sending it back to them). I just don't feel comfortable with it after reading about all of the EUC fires . I've gotten zero communication from them since last Wednesday so frankly I'm at a loss. Hoping they have just been busy and I'll get a response today. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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