Kingsong s18, a strong midrange wheel?

[Poker]

Hey.

Im one and a half weeks into my new life as a euc rider. 

I'm really happy with my choice to explore this. 

I bought a dirt cheap used airwheel to see if it was something I could master and would like. I've had a great time so far but I need something faster with more range. I've explored everything within the range of where I live, day and night time. 

Long story short I think my future is to buy an kingsong s18 (becouse price difference to an s20) and when I can afford it to add some more batteries later on when I have gotten more used to it and can afford it. 

Im very capable with mechanical and electrical work so it should be np. 

What worries me in the long run is the 45km/h speedlimit. 

Do I have any options of using a custom firmware to adjust the tiltback to start at lets say 55 or 60 kmh? Would I need to write the software myself or has anyone already done it? 

I have been searching the forum a bit but custom firmware isn't really talked about that much. 

I'd love some feedback or if someone could point me in the right direction

[.....]

Dont assume you can 'add batteries' to most eucs, specially the <gasp> s18. You will be better served by buying a wheel that is made the way you like it. These wheels are not easily modified and the more you tinker, the more likely you will eat pavement with your face. I also would be leery of assuming to buy a newer model of wheel and especially one that isnt really proven. The top speed of a wheel is typically a physical limitation that is backed by fw to keep it safer. If you merely remove software limitations, you will quickly realize that those limitations were NOT conservative to begin with. The reason you dont see custom FW much, its not as easy as you would assume, and HW limitation leave you little to nothing in gains. From what I can tell, the s18 is a mid range, mid powered wheel. You are compromising things to add a suspension. Whether the compromise in some areas to gain suspension is worth it... depends on riding styles.

Just my $.02, but I'd keep researching and perhaps let the idea of the s18 and s20, pass you by for now. There are MANY wheels to choose from and sadly, the newest are really not proving to be better than the older (yet). Expensive in euc does NOT mean better. Marketing is aggressive and the lies are abundant.

Im a Ks18xl fanboi for sure. If you dont need go faster tha 25mph, its almost a no brainer. When I want to go faster, I ride my Sherman. Tho  it is rated for 50mph, it is more like a 40mph wheel with headroom imho. Of course, to gain speed, you gain weight and lose flickability. There are no free gains in the euc world yet. THere is NO clear winner. Each wheel is simply a combination of compromises and benefits. There is no ONE WHEEL to rule them all. There's  no single wheel that clearly does everything better than the rest. My current wheel collection is born from the needs/wants I have. If I thought there was a better wheel out there for me, I'd own it....

Grats on learning the airwheel! Tbh, just about any larger format wheel is gna seem like a beast in compare. Dont underestimte just how fast (and dangerous), 25mph can be on a single wheel. Remember, the only thing keeping us upright is a myriad of cheap chinese electronics, selected by a company that is mostly concerned about profit. Welcome to the nuthouse and best of luck!

Edited March 7, 2022 by ShanesPlanet

[meepmeepmayer]

It will 100% be more expensive to "add batteries later" than to buy a bigger battery wheel right away.

How about a V11? Good price, more battery, great wheel (with suspension).

[Tawpie]

1 hour ago, Poker said:

Do I have any options of using a custom firmware to adjust the tiltback to start at lets say 55 or 60 kmh? Would I need to write the software myself or has anyone already done it? 

No custom firmware is known to exist.

You could write some, but you need to figure out how to load it to the wheel etc. etc.

BUT

The reason the S18 tilts back is because in KS's judgement it's physically unable to go any faster and keep you safe. If you push it past its limit, the wheel will protect itself and suddenly turn off, which will eject you off the front and you'll experience what's called a "cutout". You do not want to raise the limit... you can choose to ignore the warnings on other wheels and you will usually get away with it, but KS is very serious when they tilt you back—you are about to fall, and you need to slow down right now.

Have fun with the air wheel, and welcome to the nuthouse!

[Poker]

Thanks for the replies, good food for thought. 

God dammit the v11 was cheaper than I thought. 

It makes my choice even harder. 

 

I need to look more into how the v11 suspension fares over time. 

Even if the s18 can come assembled wrong (maybe just the earlier batches?) , I could make it work unless it has broken parts. 

 

 So many things to consider, I can understand why many of you have so many wheels 

[.....]

1 hour ago, Poker said:

Thanks for the replies, good food for thought. 

God dammit the v11 was cheaper than I thought. 

It makes my choice even harder. 

 

I need to look more into how the v11 suspension fares over time. 

Even if the s18 can come assembled wrong (maybe just the earlier batches?) , I could make it work unless it has broken parts. 

 

 So many things to consider, I can understand why many of you have so many wheels 

The addiction is REAL! The excuses are endless.....

[Tawpie]

No excuses are necessary until it involves domestic tranquility. Or the repo man.

Do think about what you want to be doing with your next wheel, because an 8 pound sledge can be made to work for all nail insertion projects, but you won't be terribly happy hanging pictures. Likewise, if all you have is a tack hammer, it's going to take a long time to bust up that concrete driveway.

Consequently my stable includes a goofing around in the neighborhood wheel (MTen), an off road wheel (S18->S20), and a general purpose super reliable go on long group rides wheel (16X, may try it to go to the office too, we'll have to see).

[enaon]

3 hours ago, Poker said:

Im very capable with mechanical and electrical work so it should be np. 

 

if this is not an overstatement, then go for it. I have done it too, fitted extra bateries inside the frame, it is doable and the s18 on a 4p setup is a very capable euc. 

[Whalesmash]

I don't know if I'd call the S18 a good midrange wheel, I probably get 25-30 good miles out of the wheel (riding the way that I want). Anything beyond that is usually beep/tiltback city, and something you really have to be careful of especially given this wheel's tendency to dump you on your face if you ask even the slightest bit too much from the wheel. A 4P setup would probably help with this, but shell modifications... DIY shell requirements... I guess it would be worth it if you have the skill and time. As long as you're aware and are respectful of this wheel's comparatively low performance ceiling, it's a great wheel. For me, I feel like I've outgrown it in the year that I've owned it. I only use it for trails now.

[rcgldr]

KS S18 has the same motor, as the KS 18XL, 2200 watts, but the S18 only has 60 cells (3p) versus the 18XL 120 cells (6p). The reduced current combined with more battery sag due to reduced current means overlean or cutout is more of an issue on the S18. The S18 is better for lighter riders.

The batteries used in the S18 are larger capacity per cell than the 18XL batteries, but I can't find a reliable source for maximum continuous or peak discharge current for either cell. I've read conflicting specs on the S18 21700 batteries, most of which specify about 7.2 amps max continuous current. Claimed peak current is ranges from 14 to 20 amps, but I haven't found any official specs that confirm this.

The V8S is also using 21700 size cells versus the V8F 18650 cells, but same story. I'm unable to find exactly what cells are being used in the V8S or their specs. V8F battery specs have a max continuous discharge of 10 amp, with a peak of 17.75 amps for a few seconds. Since it's a 2p battery pack, that would be a peak well over the 30 amps the fuse is labeled as, but a 30 amp blade fuse is spec'ed to run at 33 amps for 100+ hours and minimum time to blow at 40 amps is 0.75 seconds. In another thread, a rider posted that he had a peak reading of 38.7 amps from EUC World, but it may have been a very small spike and|or there are issues with V8F | EUC World in reporting peak current during a run.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by rcgldr

[Poker]

Glad I made this thread, great feedback. 

 

I obviously need to think a bit more before making a decision. 

 

When it comes to the "low" top speed sealing of the s18 its not the worst thing. 

 

I stopped driving my motorcycle about five years ago as I was becoming more and more scared of dying / becoming a cripple. 

Not that I was taking high risks but you could always be crushed by a car just running you down whilst you're waiting for a green light in an intersection. 

 

I too was sceptical about modding the s18 to a 4p. But after reading through the threads here and especially seeing someone mentioned spot welding the poles of the battery cells Im confident it would handle the vibrations over time. 

If I were to go through with that I would need to buy some equipment to test the individual cell as well as testing them after connecting them together. So it would definitely be more expensive in total than just buying a v11 that already has the battery capacity I would want to upgrade the s18 to. 

[enaon]

10 hours ago, rcgldr said:

he batteries used in the S18 are

of two kinds, random I think, either lg M50T, or samsung 50G, samsung ones are way stronger on a 3p setup. 

[enaon]

8 hours ago, Poker said:

I too was sceptical about modding the s18 to a 4p. But after reading through the threads here and especially seeing someone mentioned spot welding the poles of the battery cells Im confident it would handle the vibrations over time. 

if you are good with modding, then the s18 on a 4p is the way. add 60usd for this spot welder, it is excellent for working on an angle etc, and 100usd for batteries from knon.nl, no need to test them. Also you will need two 10s bms's, I used daly 30A 

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by enaon

[Poker]

Nice, thanks! I saw you posted that video in a different thread on s18 battery mod. Looks like impressive performance from that spot welder. 

 

[Poker]

I ended up buying a v11 from a store in the UK. Their prices were about the same as aliexpress to me as Norway is a efta country and not part of the eu I would need to pay local vat (25% ) anyway. 

 

I just feel way more comfortable with a valid warranty from a store in England as opposed to a Chinese trader on aliexpress that keeps changing names all the time. 

 

Guess I will drive it in the dry for a while untill I am comfortable that everything works before taking it apart and trying to waterproof it some. 

 

Thanks for the guidance you guys gave me, guess I should activate my Facebook and try and find some local riders. Really hard to convince my friends of the superiority of euc as a means of transport. 

[mike_bike_kite]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:50 AM, Poker said:

I stopped driving my motorcycle about five years ago as I was becoming more and more scared of dying / becoming a cripple. 

Yeah, so the obvious decision was to switch to a high speed Chinese electric unicycle?

[Poker]

well you cant drive a motorcycle on the bike paths if you just wanna chill. Its all about how you use it but on a road there are more dangerous other things than on a bike path. 

[mrelwood]

6 hours ago, Poker said:

before taking it apart and trying to waterproof it some. 

Look through a few disassembly videos before doing this, so you can plan your moves ahead. Because I don’t think there to really be anything that the V11 waterproofing could be improved with anymore. The bearings have their own seals, the mainboard is well sealed in a closed box that already has a seal and sealant, batteries are double boxed with a sealed inner enclosure etc.

 You choose a wheel that you really might have to just ride.  (Great choice btw!)