JoeBean Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 My V11 won't allow me to charge it from the charge port. I've been trying to find the problem for so long the battery is now dead. Which charger do i need to charge it directly to the battery connection ? It has a xt90 plug and a smaller one 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 (edited) First things first. - Who did you buy the wheel from? - Is the wheel under warranty? There are a few possible reasons I can think of that can cause this, none of which can be solved by charging the battery directly. And ALL of them would make it too dangerous and risky an endeavor for you to try. Are you aware of the situations and reasons for a large Li-ion battery pack to turn into a huge fire cracker? Edited December 13, 2021 by mrelwood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted December 13, 2021 Share Posted December 13, 2021 6 hours ago, JoeBean said: Which charger do i need to charge it directly to the battery connection ? It has a xt90 plug and a smaller one A question like this can't help raising an alarm bell when I read it. If you cannot charge the battery then something is wrong. Charging direct on the battery connection is not how it is designed to used in this way. So you could have a problem with: - charger - bms in a battery pack -wiring or cell problems - drive or main board - status or state cable from battery The end result is however that trying to bypass this can only cause more problems. And I always have big concerns on battery related problems. These should NOT be treated as minor cosmetic issues. It can lead to unexpected cutouts or termal runaway if it is a bad cell or if cell balancing doesn't work as normal. I suggest you contal your reseller or a "local" reseller that can help fixing the issue you have. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil696 Posted December 14, 2021 Share Posted December 14, 2021 Charging battery outside is possible, BUT if you don't have enough expirence don't do that. And dont think you will charge battery outside cause propably pack doesn't charge with some reason, unballanced cells, broken bms. Do you have any electronical skills? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 When I was young, I was told the following a few times. And it bugged me out so much! “How would I ever learn if I’m not allowed to even start??” Luckily they knew what they were talking about, and I ended up starting slow, just like they said, working with simple low voltage devices for years before upping the game. At which point I made electronic repairs for living. This is one of those situations, that if one has to ask for help in something this rudimentary, one definitely doesn’t have the knowledge and experience it would require to consider all the countless little and big aspects and things that absolutely need to be well handled for the process to be anywhere near safe or even useful. This is the stuff that people learn for several months, daily, before actually being able to do things at this scale. And maybe even a bit more for it to be actually useful. I hope it’s been clear that we like nothing more than to encourage people in fixing and working with their previous wheels, but there are some jobs that simply require tools that take a very long time to put together. Working with high voltage Lithium batteries is one of those things. Btw, look how GW is doing, still after actually manufacturing the wheels for about a decade… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 15, 2021 Share Posted December 15, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 11:38 AM, JoeBean said: My V11 won't allow me to charge it from the charge port. I've been trying to find the problem for so long the battery is now dead. Which charger do i need to charge it directly to the battery connection ? It has a xt90 plug and a smaller one One could also try to disconnect one battery and try to charge only one within the wheel. Sometimes only one battery is dead and hinders the other one. So at least one battery can be saved. Once the batteries are at different charging states (voltages) they are not allowed to be paralleled again. (Although the V11 could maybe already have a protection circuitry for such cases?) 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/15/2021 at 2:11 AM, Chriull said: One could also try to disconnect one battery and try to charge only one within the wheel. Sometimes only one battery is dead and hinders the other one. So at least one battery can be saved. Once the batteries are at different charging states (voltages) they are not allowed to be paralleled again. (Although the V11 could maybe already have a protection circuitry for such cases?) Do you know if the V11 should charge with just 1 battery pack plugged in ? I tried and it wont charge with either packs. Since it's unlikely both packs are defective could be a control board issue ? Basically the seller (gowheels.ca) can't get inmotion to honor the warranty (it was broken within 6 months of buying it) So I'm on my own trying to repair it. They basically gave a us a bunch of steps to follow: film a video of the wheel acting up, pictures of me measuring voltage, pictures of app diagnosis then sayonara sucker no more email answers because obvisouly the next step if taking it back and thats money out their pocket. It's very difficult to diagnose the problem without having 2 V11 and switch parts around. The batterie packs alone cost more than half a brand new v11. I'm at the stage of selling it for spare parts so i'm down for trying anything. I've been robbed of 6 months of EUC life goodness dealing with this bullshit i find that is the unacceptable part. Time flies. Inmotion support is sheet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/13/2021 at 8:35 AM, mrelwood said: First things first. - Who did you buy the wheel from? - Is the wheel under warranty? There are a few possible reasons I can think of that can cause this, none of which can be solved by charging the battery directly. And ALL of them would make it too dangerous and risky an endeavor for you to try. Are you aware of the situations and reasons for a large Li-ion battery pack to turn into a huge fire cracker? Hi, thanks for answering. Yes messing with batteries sounds dangerous however a quality charger would be able to recognise a defective battery pack and not allow it to charge. That would be all the information i need to zero in on my problem. No ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 On 12/14/2021 at 8:56 AM, evil696 said: Charging battery outside is possible, BUT if you don't have enough expirence don't do that. And dont think you will charge battery outside cause propably pack doesn't charge with some reason, unballanced cells, broken bms. Do you have any electronical skills? I can use a multimeter I'm not looking to rebuild an entire battery pack, just to identify the broken part. My options are to order a new battery pack for 1k or a new control board for 400$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, JoeBean said: Do you know if the V11 should charge with just 1 battery pack plugged in ? I tried and it wont charge with either packs. Sorry - i have no real experience with Inmotion V11. (Most) KS and GW can charge single packs. 9 minutes ago, JoeBean said: Since it's unlikely both packs are defective could be a control board issue ? I'd not bet on anything without further information about the cause. 9 minutes ago, JoeBean said: Basically the seller (gowheels.ca) can't get inmotion to honor the warranty (it was broken within 6 months of buying it) So I'm on my own trying to repair it. That's very generous from you. Your seller owes you the warranty - inmotion has absolutely no obligation to you. Or otherway round - the seller disregarded his legal duty to perform the warranty repair/replacement/whatever. You have legal rights by consumer protection law against the seller! Whatever contract or agreement they have or not with whomever is not your problem. 9 minutes ago, JoeBean said: I've been robbed of 6 months of EUC life goodness dealing with this bullshit i find that is the unacceptable part. Time flies. Inmotion support is sheet Sorry. Again - your sellers support is sheet (?whatever that means? onomatopoeia? ). Inmotion is not involved in your purchase contract with the seller - imo it's great from them that they tried some support anyways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 21 minutes ago, JoeBean said: I can use a multimeter Once a battery bms has shut down one cannot measure an output voltage anymore. 21 minutes ago, JoeBean said: My options are to order a new battery pack for 1k or a new control board for 400$ If you have documented your conversations / failure reports with the seller you could maybe get the replacement/repair from him for free. Or with some support of a lawyer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, JoeBean said: I'm not looking to rebuild an entire battery pack, just to identify the broken part. Maybe you've already verified this, but you're sure your charger is ok? They fail too. Borrowing someone else's known-good charger is a safe first step. 2 hours ago, JoeBean said: I can use a multimeter After you know that a known-good charger will not charge the wheel, you can open it, disconnect each pack and measure the voltage of the battery pack. Do so with care and don't weld the multimeter leads together. If the measured voltage of a battery pack is in the neighborhood of 60 or more volts, and they are both nearly the same voltage, there is some chance that the problem lies in your charging circuit. If your first measurement of pack voltages is below say... 55V, your pack is dangerously close to being so discharged it may be suffering from fatal, catastrophic internal damage and must be considered a fire hazard. Do not try to charge or use it, do NOT keep it in your dwelling... it needs professional help. A skilled repair person might be able to save it, but most will give you a blank stare and say "bad luck mate". If you're lucky, they'll offer you a pittance for the bad pack in the hope they can salvage some cells—take it. I'd even be willing to pay a disposal fee so I don't have to worry about it... If both packs are at least 60V, unplug both batteries and turn the power on to discharge the capacitors before you start the next steps. Check wires and connections from the charge port to the control board, and from the control board to the batteries—you're looking for loose connections or damaged/broken wires. I'd unplug each connection, inspect the connector for damage/goobers/corrosion/loose or bent contacts and clean or replace as needed. Then replug and unplug several times so the contact points can 'wipe' against each other. Don't pull on the wires, always hold the connector body. Do the next bit outside where nothing will start on fire and the toxic fumes can blow safely away just in case the wheel bursts into flames or otherwise decides to explode. Plug one battery back in and see if the wheel will start charging it (don't try this with any 'charger' except the wheel, see above. No external chargers). If it does, charge it all the way 'green led' full. Then unplug the full one and repeat with the other one. Unplug both batteries and remeasure their voltages with the multimeter. If, and ONLY IF, they both measure within 0.1V of each other, plug them both in and power up the wheel. If one of the packs still won't charge but the other will, the won't-charge pack is duff and needs the checkbook tool (repair person or replacement pack). If neither pack will charge, a new control board might solve the issue. Good luck, it's not really that difficult but you do need to be super careful. I personally recommend limiting your caffeine intake before starting—having the shakes doesn't help. Edited December 16, 2021 by Tawpie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 Six months, wouldn't the warranty still be valid? Or was it purchased from aliexpress? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 3 hours ago, Paul A said: Six months, wouldn't the warranty still be valid? Or was it purchased from aliexpress? I notified the seller (www.gowheels.ca) 3 months after the purchase that the wheel was broken. So well withint the 6 months warranty. He will absolutly not take it back, he has been clear about it that inmotion must decide what to do. However they do not answer anymore. He has however been helpful with providing a spare control board ( that turns out wasnt even working in the first place) and a second charger. Problem still persist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted December 16, 2021 Author Share Posted December 16, 2021 5 hours ago, Chriull said: You have legal rights by consumer protection law against the seller! Whatever contract or agreement they have or not with whomever is not your problem. Sorry. Again - your sellers support is sheet (?whatever that means? onomatopoeia? ). Inmotion is not involved in your purchase contract with the seller - imo it's great from them that they tried some support anyways! Apparently Inmotion tries to diagnose the problem with the customer before any talk of returns happen. I talked with Inmotion Clark for a while trying to diagnose. Once it became clear the problem was serious he stopped replying. Your opinion is I should direct my wrath toward my seller ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriull Posted December 16, 2021 Share Posted December 16, 2021 30 minutes ago, JoeBean said: Your opinion is I should direct my wrath toward my seller ? Yes, as far as i understand western consumer protection laws. But i'm no lawyer, i'm not knowing canadian law and i don't know anything that happened bur what you wrote here. But yes, would still be my favourite "guess". In anyway directing anything towards inmotion won't help you, as they are for sure not involved in this episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul A Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 If payment was made with a credit card, there is usually purchase protection afforded. VISA offers: Visa cardholders can benefit from the security and safety offered through Visa Purchase Protection. If something you bought with your card is damaged or stolen within 180 days of purchase, you are protected. https://www.visa.com.bs/content/dam/VCOM/regional/lac/ENG/Default/Documents/PDFs/travel-purchase-protection-1.pdf If payment was made with a credit provider, perhaps check their particular policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil696 Posted December 17, 2021 Share Posted December 17, 2021 To chceck battery you need to disasembly battery pack. All BMS measure voltage between cells, and if any cell have lover voltage than others BMS wil block output, you need to chceck if voltage on all cells are equal. If not, you need to change broken section (cells need to be the same as others). After repair BMS will be locked, to unlock BMS you need to assembly repaired and ballanced pack, connect pack to wheel and try to charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 On 12/17/2021 at 2:03 PM, evil696 said: if any cell have lover voltage than others BMS wil block output Not on EUCs though. The cells can freely go all the way down to zero without the BMS doing anything about it (thee discontinued Z10 excluded). That’s why individual cell group monitoring is very important to get in EUCs. On 12/17/2021 at 2:03 PM, evil696 said: If not, you need to change broken section The cells are spot welded with nickel (or similar) strips, replacing individual cells is a demanding professional job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeBean Posted March 31, 2022 Author Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) follow up: retailer took it back and they diagnosed a BMS issue on one of the battery pack. Not something i could have done anything about. The pack was replaced, I got the wheel and everything is looking good for spring season. They told me they had problems getting parts from inmotion to get started on repairs. I would recommand and buy again from gowheels.ca if you are in canada. Edited March 31, 2022 by JoeBean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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