Inmotion V13 Speculation

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, 2disbetter said:

Any issues printing with a TPU filament in a house with kids and a dog? Nothing toxic right? I just read it doesn't quite smell as nice. 

I only have experience with one roll of TPU, but it doesn’t smell at all. No odors, nothing. I’d have zero problem printing in a room full of sleeping babies and dogs. (Sleeping so that they don’t shake the printer table…)

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

Apparently the bolts that ewheels got in are not correct. So the wait continues. The seats/kick stands are with their shipper and soon to be flown in as well.

[HEC]

8 minutes ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

Apparently the bolts that ewheels got in are not correct. So the wait continues. The seats/kick stands are with their shipper and soon to be flown in as well.

That's exactly what I've pointed out several pages back here:

 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

21 minutes ago, HEC said:

That's exactly what I've pointed out several pages back here:

The bolts shown are not flat head they are tapered like the originals, the problem is that the heads are to big so they overlap. I'm not sure why they have not gotten the EXACT specifications from the manufacturer. I thought that was the spec sheet they sent me.

[conecones]

1 hour ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The bolts shown are not flat head they are tapered like the originals, the problem is that the heads are to big so they overlap. I'm not sure why they have not gotten the EXACT specifications from the manufacturer. I thought that was the spec sheet they sent me.

I believe the bolts pictured above were the same ones specified by the data sheet provided by IM.

@SquallLHeartCan you confirm for us? I've heard that you received motors with both types of bolts. Thanks 

[Punxatawneyjoe]

1 hour ago, conecones said:

I believe the bolts pictured above were the same ones specified by the data sheet provided by IM

This was the data sheet i was given from ewheels. I assumed it was from inmotion but i cant confirm it. This is what they were using to replace the bolts with.

[OldFartRides]

Easy enough to stick those in a drill and take a little of the head off against a file or stone or sand paper.

[novazeus]

my protection/pad kit came today. orange duct tape tmrw.

my v13 sb a beauty!

[HEC]

5 hours ago, Punxatawneyjoe said:

The bolts shown are not flat head they are tapered like the originals, the problem is that the heads are to big so they overlap. I'm not sure why they have not gotten the EXACT specifications from the manufacturer. I thought that was the spec sheet they sent me.

They're flat on the top, tapered at the bottom. However if you look carefully at the images (in my reply I've referred above), the sheared original bolts don't have flat tops and the taper angle looks smaller than 90°, more like 60°, so the original bolts are much closer to the torx inserts bolts, I have posted image of too. For reference, below are the images of both again:

Edited February 17, 2023 by HEC

[GPSchile]

11 hours ago, OldFartRides said:

Easy enough to stick those in a drill and take a little of the head off against a file or stone or sand paper.

true but in that case, beware to do it slowly and preventing the material from overheating (loose its class 12.9 heating process).
@HEC these torx bolts look great, as long as they fit well and are class 12.9. Their head seem to be more reliable than the flat heads. Anyway, it should be easy to verify if the conical head of the bolts have to be 90º or 60º, by simply checking the holes shape of the piece they have to hold. Or are these holes just like a cylinder? I do not have a V13 to check it. 

[HEC]

5 minutes ago, GPSchile said:

@HEC these torx bolts look great, as long as they fit well and are class 12.9. Their head seem to be more reliable than the flat heads. Anyway, it should be easy to verify if the conical head of the bolts have to be 90º or 60º, by simply checking the holes shape of the piece they have to hold. Or are these holes just like a cylinder? I do not have a V13 to check it. 

Yes, they're Grade 12.9 and the taper ("cone") angle can be easily measured on the original bolts. If you look at the last image in my previous reply, it seems that the angle is definitely less than 90°, and as standard used angles are 90 and then 60, I'm more inclined to believe it's 60°. Hopefully one of the lucky owners here will soon confirm that.

[UPONIT]

4 hours ago, HEC said:

Yes, they're Grade 12.9 and the taper ("cone") angle can be easily measured on the original bolts. If you look at the last image in my previous reply, it seems that the angle is definitely less than 90°, and as standard used angles are 90 and then 60, I'm more inclined to believe it's 60°. Hopefully one of the lucky owners here will soon confirm that.

Trying to be helpful here: standard tapers for flat head M6-1.0 screws are 90 deg and 100 deg. 60 deg would be shaped like an ice cream cone.

If you go to McMaster's website, they have the absolute best, most granular filters for finding parts. In this case there are several screws that fit all the described requirements. Every conceivable aspect is described and CAD drawings are available. I'm not a shill for them, but your dream screw definitely lives there.

On a philosophical note: For this application, a screw with tensile strength 110,000 psi (Class 8.8) doesn't seem drastically weaker than a Class 12.9 screw at 140,000 psi or a Class 10.9 at 120,000 psi. Then you have titanium at 40k, stainless alloys at 70k, brass at 70k, etc. And none of those ratings are shear strength. Tensile is just a useful-ish proxy...

Maybe the issue here is one of fastener manufacturer consistency? Source the screws from a reliable, consistent manufacturer whose products actually meet strength specs.

I guess I'm saying this "problem" (which won't affect 90% of owners) isn't simple, even from an armchair engineering perspective. So the answer is: get the right-size, Class 12.9 alloy steel screws from McMaster and consider them to be the absolute best possible fastener for this scenario and not give it another thought.

(Or source the screws from another unknown, cheaper manufacturer with unreliable certification that claims Class 12.9 quality on paper and take your chances...)

Edited February 18, 2023 by UPONIT

[OMGitsRAAZ]

On 2/14/2023 at 10:16 AM, novazeus said:

i know that i should cut myself some slack because i just started riding again after 4 years off, but i've come to the conclusion, everybody rides better than me. 

i could get by not ever learning u-turns but mounting is my nemesis. 

the trust in the v13 by this guy is amazing and obviously he's comfortable on the wheel.

 

Hey Guys randomly came across this thread and I realized my video was being discussed LOL

Just wanted to clear out a couple of things I guess because people don't know where I come from and all of a sudden you see this guy riding a v13 with no gear acting like an idiot and swearing and shit lol 

I've been riding EUCs for over 6 years now so def not a newbie. I used to race motorcycles for well over a decade so I realize importance of gear not going to argue with you guys about that but I explained why I didn't have any on when I made the video hope you guys understand

I have a master P42, Master Pro, now the v13, T4, v11, exn, ESX, Monster Pro, etc etc so I've been in the game for a while. Just starting to get into the whole YouTube scene so hopefully I can create better and entertaining content for you guys like And subscribe 🤣

[techyiam]

32 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

On a philosophical note: For this application, a screw with tensile strength 110,000 psi (Class 8.8) doesn't seem drastically weaker than a Class 12.9 screw at 140,000 psi or a Class 10.9 at 120,000 psi. Then you have titanium at 40k, stainless alloys at 70k, brass at 70k, etc. And none of those ratings are shear strength. Tensile is just a useful-ish proxy...

Remember that the threads weren't stripping. 

One sq. In. cross-section can carry 110.000 pounds load for Grade 8.8 before fracturing. That is a lot of SUV's.

One would also think, the threaded holes in the axle would not be as strong as a Grade 8.8 bolt.

[HEC]

51 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Trying to be helpful here: standard tapers for flat head M6-1.0 screws are 90 deg and 100 deg. 60 deg would be shaped like an ice cream cone.

But that's my point from the start. The original bolts are not flat head (as clearly seen in the image) and they are definitely not tapered at 90 (bar 100) degrees. As next common taper angle is 60°, that's what I believe the original bolts are tapered at.

If you look at the images in my previous reply, the torx insert bolts (which have 60° heads) look very similar to original ones, very unlike the flat head ones in the first image.

Either way, I've just ordered 10 of each today and once (if?) my V13 will finally arrive, I'll make a comparison. With my "luck", the bolts will be here sooner than V13 😥

And in regads of the grade rating, you're right that tensile strengths are comparable, but in this case other significant criteria come in play, including dynamic forces and so on. Some specific quality of the alloy might be critical here independent of the actual tensile strength, like heat expansion or similar.

Edited February 18, 2023 by HEC

[UPONIT]

12 minutes ago, HEC said:

And in regads of the grade rating, you're right that tensile strengths are comparable, but in this case other significant criteria come in play, including dynamic forces and so on. Some specific quality of the alloy might be critical here independent of the actual tensile strength, like heat expansion and so on.

Exactly my point. So if the screw situation is a concern, I would buy the highest strength, from the most reliable source, no matter the price, and consider that the best possible solution. The small differences in tensile strength are probably less important than consistent material quality from the fastener manufacturer?

Edited February 18, 2023 by UPONIT

[HEC]

23 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I would buy the highest strength, from the most reliable source, no matter the price

That's not that simple though ... Many large and "reliable" suppliers get their stock from China anyway, and you're basically paying for the "brand". To make situation even worse, most of those change the suppliers based on price or availability, resulting in inconsistent quality. So even having purchased from a specific source in the past doesn't guarantee you to obtain the same quality as before. And you have very little chance to verify the quality yourself without lab or at least several  strength tests. And outside of US it's even worse, the local manufacturing is almost nonexistent and it's practically impossible to figure out where the bolts (or any other similar items) were actually manufactured while ordering or purchasing. 

Plus, no point in purchasing "expensive" bolts right now without knowing the correct specs. I've ordered mine directly from china, but at least from semi-reliable suppliers. At the fraction of the cost I'd pay here and most likely with the same if not better quality. And I'll have 2 spare ones from each set, so I can even perform some test on those by myself. 

Edited February 18, 2023 by HEC

[UPONIT]

1 hour ago, HEC said:

That's not that simple though ... Many large and "reliable" suppliers get their stock from China anyway, and you're basically paying for the "brand". To make situation even worse, most of those change the suppliers based on price or availability, resulting in inconsistent quality. So even having purchased from a specific source in the past doesn't guarantee you to obtain the same quality as before. And you have very little chance to verify the quality yourself without lab or at least several  strength tests. And outside of US it's even worse, the local manufacturing is almost nonexistent and it's practically impossible to figure out where the bolts (or any other similar items) were actually manufactured while ordering or purchasing. 

Plus, no point in purchasing "expensive" bolts right now without knowing the correct specs. I've ordered mine directly from china, but at least from semi-reliable suppliers. At the fraction of the cost I'd pay here and most likely with the same if not better quality. And I'll have 2 spare ones from each set, so I can even perform some test on those by myself. 

Every single thing you say regarding sources is absolutely not universally true. 100% guarantee you this: McMaster only stocks the absolute highest quality materials. And every item includes country of origin. You should check out their website. Incomparable. They aren't low cost, but they are the best by any measure.

"At the fraction of the cost" is incompatible with "highest quality."    My $0.02.

[HEC]

29 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

Every single thing you say regarding sources is absolutely not universally true. 100% guarantee you this: McMaster only stocks the absolute highest quality materials. And every item includes country of origin. You should check out their website. Incomparable. They aren't low cost, but they are the best by any measure.

"At the fraction of the cost" is incompatible with "highest quality."    My $0.02.

That's all very nice but completely useless to me by not being in US.

In regads of price, I bought those primarily to size and taper angle match with original, thus the "bargain" price rather than higher one. Plus, the bolts I found available "locally" are exactly the same (down to the description text and product images) as the ones ordered directly from China, just 3 - 4 times more expensive. I will indeed look into some suppliers with local manufacturing in the meantime and once I confirm exact sizing needed I will consider purchasing some more "reputable" ones.

And, in regads of the country of origin, your argument actually (and sadly) proved mine:

 

Edited February 18, 2023 by HEC

[UPONIT]

36 minutes ago, HEC said:

And, in regads of the country of origin, your argument actually (and sadly) proved mine:

 

"3rd Rock" doesn't tell very much about your location.

I see 16 countries of origin listed. What point of yours does that relate to? I didn't make any argument about COO, I just said it is listed.

I'm not even clear on what we are disagreeing about? You seemed understandably concerned about the screw situation. I tried to be logical about solutions, and recommended a source with a well-documented history of providing the absolute best quality items in their categories. If that's not helpful to you, I apologize. Maybe it will be helpful to someone else?

[rebeuc]

55 minutes ago, HEC said:

That's all very nice but completely useless to by not being in US.

Their address on the website is listed as:

600 N County Line Rd.
Elmhurst, IL 60126-2034

How is that not in the US???

[HEC]

22 minutes ago, rebeuc said:

Their address on the website is listed as:

600 N County Line Rd.
Elmhurst, IL 60126-2034

How is that not in the US???

to ME not being in US (not the company)...

(I have edited the quoted text to avoid confusion after re-reading it before you posted your reply, but you have probably quoted it earlier).

Edited February 18, 2023 by HEC

[HEC]

11 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

"3rd Rock" doesn't tell very much about your location.

Hence the:

2 hours ago, HEC said:

And outside of US it's even worse

 

[HEC]

32 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I see 16 countries of origin listed. What point of yours does that relate to?

This one:

3 hours ago, HEC said:

To make situation even worse, most of those change the suppliers based on price or availability, resulting in inconsistent quality. So even having purchased from a specific source in the past doesn't guarantee you to obtain the same quality as before. And you have very little chance to verify the quality yourself without lab or at least several  strength tests.

And also this one (China):

1 hour ago, HEC said:

Plus, the bolts I found available "locally" are exactly the same (down to the description text and product images) as the ones ordered directly from China, just 3 - 4 times more expensive.

 

32 minutes ago, UPONIT said:

I'm not even clear on what we are disagreeing about? You seemed understandably concerned about the screw situation. I tried to be logical about solutions, and recommended a source with a well-documented history of providing the absolute best quality items in their categories. If that's not helpful to you, I apologize. Maybe it will be helpful to someone else?

My apologies for sounding "negative" or harsh, that was not my intention. I appreciate your help and I'm sure that the info will be useful to many (US) readers here. And I don't think we disagree about anything here in principle. 🕊

Edited February 18, 2023 by HEC

[Punxatawneyjoe]

3 hours ago, OMGitsRAAZ said:

Hey Guys randomly came across this thread and I realized my video was being discussed LOL

Welcome to the forums @OMGitsRAAZ. It's always good to have content creators on here with other EUC owners to discuss different topics. I think most including myself are an advocate of gear while riding however some are not and with argue tooth and nail against it. So we are lucky enough to have an eclectic community and happy to have you aboard. I for one am not triggered by the colorful commentary and enjoyed the video. Hope you stick around and i look forward to hearing your opinions as an experienced rider.