enaon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Unventor said: Then you need to read on any laws that gives customer warranty or reclamation rights. I understand the law, I also appreciate reality and balance. If we were to go by the book, all euc's should be banned from entering Europe, they are are hazards, very poorly made. Not a single machine would have passed a check by a regulator. Here in Athens, inmotion is the reason our local store left the game, all the v11 he sold broke, had their batteries fail, or bearings problems. So, when I hear that fets were left on the air on a supposed to be trusted maker, and that makes no one blink an eye, I don't like it. I think mrelwood understood my point. Quote Me ranting about any single mass produced item would not be fair, and it would be completely unreasonable and unfair for me to hope to redirect sales to other manufacturers because of it. I think that since you have knowledge and experience you should rant about things like fets left unconnected. I will rant about kingsong problems, so no reason to be afraid of diverting customers. I think our aim should be getting the makers to be more careful, because today it was a failure on a free spin, tomorrow it could be at 40km/h, a warranty claim can only solve that much. Edited October 24, 2021 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Unventor said: Also on a side note, using sarcasm or black humour or irony might work fine in other [laces but on a global internet forum this is often misunderstood due to language and you can't see the person putting this across. When pulling out this card it really doesn't excuse any comment made. One should still consider if this will upset people. Gotway and bad QC is a known issue no matter the language barrier, and if one don't get it I will not get likes, I don't really care to be honest. I did not pulled out any card when I explained to the user that replied to me that I was jocking, I understood that he maybe has not enough experience to know gotway is joke on QC here, so explained my self. Did you really failed to understand what I said on my comment on QC because of my humor? Edited October 24, 2021 by enaon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted October 24, 2021 Share Posted October 24, 2021 1 hour ago, enaon said: Gotway and bad QC is a known issue no matter the language barrier, and if one don't get it I will not get likes, I don't really care to be honest. I did not pulled out any card when I explained to the user that replied to me that I was jocking, I understood that he maybe has not enough experience to know gotway is joke on QC here, so explained my self. Did you really failed to understand what I said on my comment on QC because of my humor? I wrote the above to point out when things escalate in debates some people hide behind being sarcastic ect... I have handled several debates like this when I was moderator here. My point is being clear and straightforward and not using excessive complex language make it easier for non native English people follow what you mean. Some things do not translate well and some users use translators to read and write here. As of brands which is better or not I think we all have different views on. Now in this case here clearly the view from customer/frie da of the customer is very different than the view of the reseller. I cannot from reading here tell which is more right than the other. My experience from my work tell me it is normal somewhere in between. On the other hand I don't need to judge in this. I can say I were looking at buying a V11 from eucsale at some point this summer but didn't. The reason was mainly how I were to get service/repair and how I was unable to reach them. That is my opinion and I stand for that. Others can make their own. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enaon Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Unventor said: I wrote the above to point out when things escalate in debates some people hide behind being sarcastic ect... nice, I don't really care about all that, I am not interested on the escalating debates hobby. I feel both for mrelwood and the retailer, none was happy with what happened is the feeling I got, it was a loose loose, the way I see it this was due to a very bad QC incident, one that I would not really believe if it was not mrelwood that reported it. Edited October 25, 2021 by enaon 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 25, 2021 Share Posted October 25, 2021 4 hours ago, enaon said: I think that since you have knowledge and experience you should rant about things like fets left unconnected. 1) The reason the case is discussed in this thread is because someone was considering buying from EucSale. Since this specific case hadn’t yet been published, I wanted to warn a future buyer. Maybe I should’ve waited until we’d get a separate warning thread made, since that was originally the plan. 2) The potential amount of effect a single person can do differs hugely between ranting about a single faulty assembly of an old wheel model, and ranting about a current active seller. PS. I have only looked at the main board construction of this single unit in question, so I don’t even know how the mainboard usually comes installed from the factory. For the new mainboard I drilled and tapped holes for screws, and tightened the mosfets on the heat sink with thin silica insulators and thermal paste. I do wonder though whether the well known V10F overheating issues could be related to the construction they originally use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir CRO Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Can we conclude: -the product (EUC) is still very very far away from reliable and usable "EU standard quality" which we have right to expect of something that is put on the market and has the price nearly a solid motorcycle. -An unfulfilled dream is to get a real and reliable two-year warranty for normal use, not for the wheel nor for the charger! -all production is in China, there is no decent after-sales support and no availability of spare parts (regardless of manufacturer or dealer) -by buying a product we are really taking a very big risk -due to the extremely small number of customers, this situation is unlikely to improve This is the rule, there are minor differences but insignificant... :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrelwood Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 38 minutes ago, Vladimir CRO said: Can we conclude: -the product (EUC) is still very very far away from reliable and usable "EU standard quality" I wouldn’t say “very very far”, but I do think that there’s still ways to go. And lots of regular stuff that’s sold locally in supermarkets today is much inferior to the modern EUC quality. 38 minutes ago, Vladimir CRO said: -all production is in China, there is no decent after-sales support and no availability of spare parts (regardless of manufacturer or dealer) If I’d have an issue with a new bicycle, I wouldn’t dream of trying to contact Cannondale directly. I’d contact the seller. Same thing with the Supermarket crap, nobody tries to contact a no-name spatula manufacturer. Warranties always go through the seller. The EUC customer base is clearly increasing all the time though, so good sellers are more and more needed, and more and more successful. Most sellers are good though. There are just a few bad apples that need to be pointed out. 38 minutes ago, Vladimir CRO said: -by buying a product we are really taking a very big risk Again, I wouldn’t say “very big”. But some risk, yes. There are tens of thousands riders around the world. Even more wheels have been sold. The ones with issues with a seller or their wheel are vocal here because they have come here for help in the first place. If you start looking for riders that have had issues, of course you’ll find them right here. But if you want to learn about the ones that don’t have any issues, most of them are not posting on forums. They are out there riding, and having the time of their life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir CRO Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 59 minutes ago, mrelwood said: I wouldn’t say “very very far”, but I do think that there’s still ways to go. And lots of regular stuff that’s sold locally in supermarkets today is much inferior to the modern EUC quality. If I’d have an issue with a new bicycle, I wouldn’t dream of trying to contact Cannondale directly. I’d contact the seller. Same thing with the Supermarket crap, nobody tries to contact a no-name spatula manufacturer. Warranties always go through the seller. The EUC customer base is clearly increasing all the time though, so good sellers are more and more needed, and more and more successful. Most sellers are good though. There are just a few bad apples that need to be pointed out. Again, I wouldn’t say “very big”. But some risk, yes. There are tens of thousands riders around the world. Even more wheels have been sold. The ones with issues with a seller or their wheel are vocal here because they have come here for help in the first place. If you start looking for riders that have had issues, of course you’ll find them right here. But if you want to learn about the ones that don’t have any issues, most of them are not posting on forums. They are out there riding, and having the time of their life! I envy you. We all really enjoy driving, we have become addicted ... we have lost our sense of reality and we are willing to pay a high price and accept risk just to enjoy ourselves. You're an optimist ...I envy you :-) if you think we're not addicted, a lost sense of reality, crazy, explain to me just one thing: how thousands and thousands of us buy a product based on an image, a video simulation ... that has not yet been produced, tested, or that anyone has tried...how is that possible? We started paying 3.000 EURO for the product before a single test specimen has been produced (I mean the eagle). It’s not just love, it’s drugs :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawpie Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 36 minutes ago, Vladimir CRO said: buy a product based on an image, a video simulation ... that has not yet been produced, tested, or that anyone has tried...how is that possible Try to buy a supercar or an ultra super car... millions of dollars each, 100% sold out with only renders and spec sheets and promises. Heck, aren't there still people with 10,000USD deposits waiting for full autodrive on their Teslas? When there's disposable income involved, the rules change. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir CRO Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 Prije 32 minute, Tawpie je rekao: Pokušajte kupiti superautomobil ili ultra super auto... milijune dolara svaki, 100% rasprodan samo s renderima i specifikacijama i obećanjima. Dovraga, zar još uvijek nema ljudi s depozitima od 10.000 USD koji čekaju puni autodrive na svojim Teslama? Kada se radi o raspoloživom prihodu, pravila se mijenjaju. no no no, all these "super cars" must first meet all standard tests, thousands examinations... go millions of miles and only then cars are introduced to customers and go on sale ... there are "development studies", but it is not for sale... something like this does not exist 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.