Please help me choose

[sadarahu]

After 2-3 weeks of researching and watching some YT video's I decided to get EUC. I already have an DIY motor-mointain bike but in many cases it is not convenient. The advantage over anything electric is that gasoline is available everywhere and when I run out of gas I can refill and be on the road in 5 min.  The disadvantage is the size, weight etc.
 

I am 150 LB, 50+ YO.
Here are some features I am Interested in:
1) RANGE
2) WEIGHT
3) 60% city, 40% OFF-ROAD
4) CHARGING TIME
5) COMFORT-STABILITY

I do not care about:
- lightning
- speakers
- speed (as long as it is 15mph+

Additionally few features I would appreciate but it is not a requirement.
- some way of fast charging
- wheel cover
- trolling handle

Out of that priority would be the first three.
I narrowed down my selection to few models but still unsure. I do not think I would ever keep more than one wheel so if I purchase a beginner type and would want to upgrade I would rather have to get rid of the first one (and of course loose some $$).
I was inistially intended to get the wheel with suspension (S18/V11). IT is so very hard thourgh to decide on anything by just looking at the specs and videos. I'm in Chicago and so far I was not able to find one store with EUC so I could go and take a look, check the weight etc.

I am not interested in stunts and acrobatic stuff (bit to old for that) but learning the off-road skills so I can use it when I'm camping on a dirt road.

Here are few wheels I consider:

On a bit higher end

1) Inmotion V8F or V8S (is some one could tell me reall experienced difference, because it looks like there is almost none except the battery location), but I might be wrong
2) KS 16SX (I 've seen people complaining about the app) OR KS-16S

On the lower end

3) KS 14D

4) Inmotion v5F

 

I was looking for entire week to get eventually something used but was not able to find anything that wold fit my expectations. Also those wheels are very heavy and shipping is a rather big factor in price. I have seen something like this:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1245871479169665/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3A29bea895-5b28-492c-b077-556c68610b91

Thanks

Art

 

[RockyTop]

This is the best “what should I buy post that I have seen” I just wish I could give it my best answer. 
 

As you may realize you are looking at a compromise. Suspension and range cost weight. …. Yet you have no speed requirements …. YET. 
 

Quick answer. 
V5, 14D - No!  These are the opposite of suspension. 
16s, V8 - Better than v5 and 14D by magnitude. These are good enough for your specs. Still a rough ride. (Change this to your low end) 

Suspension - Ain’t lying, suspension is sweet. I have one and love it. That said you lose a bit of agility, control. You gain a bit of forgiveness too. Keep in mind that the larger, fatter tires on the non suspension wheels help quite a bit. Almost suspension ( my personal choice is not suspension ( 50+)) 

v8 to v8f ( batteries sizes really small and really small +0.000001)  yet good enough for your specs. 

 

 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by RockyTop

[sadarahu]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. When I asked about Inmotion it was a question about V8F and V8S (not V8). I know the difference between V8 and other models).
There are only 3-4 models with the suspension and they all seem to be a bit to heavy for me (but still is is so super hard to figure out because I have not have one in my hands to carry...). 
I kinda narrowed down my choice to IM-V8F, KS16S, KS 16SX , OR eventually IM-V5F (and upgrading later). I have also seen v5F+ on YT but I cannot locate any place to check what's extra as opposed to V5F (?)

PS>
I've seen an article where they opened V8S to verify the difference with V8F and stated they only difference is the battery arrangement. On eWHEELS it shows up that the BAT.  is larger by about 10-15% and that should increase a millage. V8S is $200 more than V8F so I want to figure out if it is worth to pay a bit more if I could get better range, but I still quite confused about this

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by sadarahu

[RockyTop]

Jason at eWheels has a long history of requiring more from the Chinese manufacturers. Better battery brands, better connectors, larger motor wires, stronger boards. I am not sure of the upgrades on the V8S. His prices are competitive. The product is usually better,  the service IMO, is unmatched. The V8 was a cutting edge wheel 5 years ago. Now it is getting close to a kid’s toy status. The changes have been made to keep it in the low end relevant area. The good news is that at 150 pounds you can actually enjoy this wheel. This would be an indoor wheel for me. The vacuum cleaner lady won’t let me ride indoors anymore. 
 

side note: My boss was 55 years old. He said 10MPH is tops for him so he got the 16s. Six months later the 16s was too slow. He has had the 18XL for two years and says that it is a perfect fit. …….. I am 51 , I have a 45 Mph wheel and can’t wait for that 60mph wheel to come out. 

Yes I have crashed many times. It is what I am good at. Everyone has skills mine is negotiating with pavement. 
 

[Rodo]

1 hour ago, sadarahu said:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. When I asked about Inmotion it was a question about V8F and V8S (not V8). I know the difference between V8 and other models).
There are only 3-4 models with the suspension and they all seem to be a bit to heavy for me (but still is is so super hard to figure out because I have not have one in my hands to carry...). 
I kinda narrowed down my choice to IM-V8F, KS16S, KS 16SX , OR eventually IM-V5F (and upgrading later). I have also seen v5F+ on YT but I cannot locate any place to check what's extra as opposed to V5F (?)

PS>
I've seen an article where they opened V8S to verify the difference with V8F and stated they only difference is the battery arrangement. On eWHEELS it shows up that the BAT.  is larger by about 10-15% and that should increase a millage. V8S is $200 more than V8F so I want to figure out if it is worth to pay a bit more if I could get better range, but I still quite confused about this

 

I sold my V8F a couple of weeks ago and bought a V8S. I can't tell the difference in size. I thought the V8S was a bit wobbly the firs day I used it but it was night time and I was tired. Next day it was fine. The battery is a bit bigger so I can ride fast for a bit longer. Charging time also took longer. The V8F used to take ~3 hours (from orange in the battery meter) to full. The V8S was like ~4.5 hours ("same" battery level as V8F). I'm 150lb and 50+ also. Remember to buy knee pads, wrist guard and helmet. If you buy a V8S from ewheels.com you get a free cover and the wrist guards. Take it easy and don't be discouraged if it looks impossible learning at first. Oh and forget the non-sense in the manual that tell you to use one leg only to learn at the beginning. I can ride no problem (both legs) and I can't do one leg ...yet...LOL. The Inmotion app is rather crappy. but you need it to disable transport mode when you get the wheel and it allows you to limit the max. speed. Limiting the max. speed is a must (IMHO) when you're learning. Enjoy.

[sadarahu]

Thank you guys for suggestions.  I fully understand if somebody is young enought to keep 2-3 heels. I do not thin I would do that (unless I move to some western states to enjoy more of the nature and weather)). I really do not like that fact that for at least 2-3 months I will not be able to use the toys.

I was riding my morot bike last weekend and I damaged the rim a bit. The side/edge  is bended and I can feel it under the break pad. Will try to fix this (since this is aluminum), otherwise would have to buy a new rim,    This makes me rething the suspension on the wheel. The bad part is that none of the lighter ones has it.

OK, I just watched today a video with range test of V8F and was rather disapointed. The guy made roughly 17miles and walked 2 miles home. I was hoping to get at least the 75% of what is shown on the specs (which in case of V8F is 27 mi).  It seems that the range will be way to small for me. although I like everything else.

RODO - could you tell my how much more range did you get from V8S as opposed to V8F ?

I really pisses me off when the maufacturer lies about the range. I would be OK if there is 10% exageration but 40-50% is a shame. Now I have to reconsider either going to the higher range (=price) or going to lower range (price) until I learn to ride and utilize the speed/weight/price benefits.

On this page
https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=5C7F7C96B9CB240D!453580&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!AH72KLYXambSLHc
It would be great to add extra ROW to list realistic range (as an average compliled from user reports)

I just checked eWheels and it seems that KS-16s has a better range for the $100 less than V8S
 

[.....]

If "off-road" means dirt trails and minor excursions...  18XL and call it a day. Of course, Rocky loves his s18, so there's always that.

Once you get into the $1200+ category, you start paying more for battery pretty much. You can always DOUBLE what you expect youll need from a wheel, OR halve the specs they give you.

Lots of people like the 16x, but then lots of people don't. That helps doesnt it?  Welcome to the nuthouse...

[Tawpie]

39 minutes ago, sadarahu said:

I fully understand if somebody is young enought to keep 2-3 heels.

You don't have to be "young" in calendar years to keep several wheels (I have 2 with a third on pre-order). You only have to have disposable income! I started on the 16XS (half the battery of the 16X, $500 cheaper) and after I determined that I really did like this I added a battery. I don't weigh what you do, and I cruise at only 18-20 mph on a fast day, but I don't think twice about planning a 60 mile ride. Part of the reason range specs are so challenging is that speed is such a big part of it, and if you're not on the flats, your weight and terrain make a difference. If you're a pedal-to-the-metal and slam-on-the-brakes kind of rider, you'll get less range.

I too think you'd be very happy for a good long while with an 18XL, but I've only ridden its little brother. And I'm tickled pink with mine. Dress properly, and ride with care, and it is a 4 season pastime BTW—I ride in the snow...

Why is there a wheel accumulation disease? Some want to go faster, I want suspension. I also wanted to have a teeny tiny wheel to fool around on when I wasn't "going places". But with how I ride, the 16X is the one I'd take to the desert island. Until the S20 shows up that is.

Edited September 29, 2021 by Tawpie

[Rodo]

14 hours ago, sadarahu said:

RODO - could you tell my how much more range did you get from V8S as opposed to V8F ?

Range is relative. The faster you go the less range you get. I did a run with the speed limited to 15 miles/hr with the V8F and I notice that the manual was somehow accurate. I haven't done that with the V8S. Here is more useful info than my opinion. This chart (picture below) is from the V8S manual. Pay special attention to the side note on the range. You do get good range if you limit the speed (and weight, etc). It is just difficult , for me, not to wanna go FASTER...LOL. But the 33 lb weight is ideal for me. The KS 18X looks nice but the 45 lb weight is something I don't want to handle.

[RagingGrandpa]

On 9/28/2021 at 1:56 PM, sadarahu said:

Location: CHICAGO

Your locals are your best resource... and you may find local used-EUC sales too.

Find them on facebook.

p.s. Metro Chicago is a place that begs for a big battery. 1500wh minimum.

[wanabeEUC]

I am looking to get a euc too, but Ontario only allows 500w 32kmh electric bike and scooters. So I don't want buy one then get a ticket or worse, it gets taken away because of the law here. Anybody in Toronto or Scarborough let me know what you have and if you have been stopped. 

[Rodo]

37 minutes ago, wanabeEUC said:

I am looking to get a euc too, but Ontario only allows 500w 32kmh electric bike and scooters.... [snip]

An EUC is neither an electric bike nor a scooter... will that matter?

[sadarahu]

Well "they" limit your freedom almost on a daily basis and we really need to resist, otherwise in 10-20 we will all be a slaves directed by artificial intelligence.
Unfortunately some people abuse the speed and have no respect to other, to nature etc that is why we get our pay off in the form of less and less freedom, and this happens all over the world.

Yes I would love to get connected with local EUC, but first I have to get one - haha! Unfortunately, I was not able to find anything used in my area. Well with the exception of one NINEBOOT-One which does not seem to be a best choice (even for learning) - am I right ?
I checked eBay, Craiglist and FB and there are very little choices and those interesting are far (and the shipping is expensive because of the weight). I would also rather take the unit in my hands before reaching for my wallet.


RagingGrandpa - really nice PIC !

The table from the manual is helpful but still does not take into consideration the average speed and rider weight. 37km seems to be a max and I would rather want to know what is the guaranteed minimum (with my weight 140LB and average 15 mph) ?
They really should change those rating, as they are very confusing and inaccurate. 

I wonder how do you compare V8S with KS16S ,  which seems to have a bit better range (or am I wrong?)  

[Tawpie]

9 minutes ago, sadarahu said:

would rather want to know what is the guaranteed minimum (with my weight 140LB and average 15 mph)

no guarantees, but at your weight and at that speed you should average something less than 20 Wh/km (probably quite a bit less—reality would be closer to 15 wH/km). But if you use 20 Wh/km as a conservative starting point and do the arithmetic against the battery capacity, you can be pretty well assured that you'll find your "probably almost certainly" minimum range.

[sadarahu]

Thank you for all valuable information and posts. I kinda narrowed down my choices to those, below.
KS16S seems to have a better range than V8S , although V8S seems to be much more polished (and also has better app) (am I right or wrong ?)

Could you guys please tell me what you dislike on those wheels (if you have /had any of  these, I mean real experience not the Specs.) in the aspect of 50-60% off-road'ing.?

Samm wheels

- KS14D

- V5F

or bigger wheeel

- KS16S

- V8S

Those wheels are in two different categories, so I would love to see your choice in "Small Wheel" and "Bigger Wheel"

Edited October 2, 2021 by sadarahu

[mike_bike_kite]

I'm about 100Kg and 6'3". I had a V5F and at 15mph (it's top speed) I'd get 12-15 miles. The 14" wheel always felt a little unstable on the road. My 16S would give a range of about 22 miles when travelling at just over 20mph. If I rode slower and weighed less then obviously I'd get more range. The 16S felt like a useful transport and was much more stable on the road because of the 16" wheel. Neither wheel felt great off road (to me). Going at 15mph at your weight then I'd image you'll get close to 30 miles on the 16S. Another option to consider might be the V10F.

[Darren Crosbie-Rowlands]

To be honest i was in your position when i was looking to buy my first wheel.

I did as you have done and relentlessly watched YT vids and joined forums. 

You are a similar age and weight to myself (im 45 and weigh around 110kg). 

After all my questions and researching i came down on 1 of 2 wheels, either the KS16X or the Nikola 84v. 

In the end i was really lucky to find a great, used Nikola which ive had now for about 3 months. Its been a steep learning curve but the bigger tyre (its actually closer to 17 inch rather than 16) and the weight give it great stability. Yes it may weigh more than other wheels but it has a great trolley handle and a lift sensor.

Id recommend you check out site like eucguide.com as they have a list of localised groups and join them. You will be surprised at how many riders you will find close to you. Also these groups are a good resource for used wheels too.

Sorry for the long reply.  

Good luck and let us know what you get!!! 👍

P.S. budget is a huge consideration too, the lower price wheels may seem enticing but im pretty certain you would outgrow something like the V8F in a few months.

Edited October 2, 2021 by Darren Crosbie-Rowlands

[sadarahu]

Still doing some research, but most likely I will go with KS16. Does anybody know if KS16 (in its latest version ) has a wheel sensor switch/OFF when lifted OR it is still manual shut off ?

 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by sadarahu

[sadarahu]

One other question:

Has anybody found any wheel with replaceable battery ?  I have seen one some time ago but it was small, and I cannot remember the brand.
I think replaceable battery should be next step in EUC development.

I also would like to know if anybody had ever tried to use some power bank (as temporary solution to get few extra mils when stuck on the way home) ?
 

[RockyTop]

2 minutes ago, sadarahu said:

One other question:

Has anybody found any wheel with replaceable battery ?  I have seen one some time ago but it was small, and I cannot remember the brand.
I think replaceable battery should be next step in EUC development.

I also would like to know if anybody had ever tried to use some power bank (as temporary solution to get few extra mils when stuck on the way home) ?
 

The KingSong 14B had a replaceable battery. It was 174wh. Really small and powerless. Today the batteries are by far the most expensive and heaviest part of the EUC. 

[sadarahu]

Yeahh, perhaps power bank in a backpack would be a solution for at least emergency backup.

[mrelwood]

The batteries on EUCs are large, so they are integrated to the shell in a way that removable batteries are not feasible.

Range. The figures may seem exaggerated, but just like with cars, there’s no guaranteed minimum MPG. A rider can weigh 120lbs and ride slow and easy, or 250lbs and ride fast and aggressive, making accurate range estimates impossible. Good news is that you only need to look at the battery capacity (Wh), forget all manufacturer range figures.

Weight and appearance. Find a local group ride and go check some wheels! They will be happy to show you theirs, although you probably won’t see any V8-series or 16S. People now ride larger and heavier wheels for several reasons.

Tire size. You do need to forget all 14” EUCs if you plan to do any off-roading. They are wheels for strolling around in a park and such. Ask yourself, how soon do you want to upgrade.

16x2.125” (V8S, 16S, Tesla) is the absolute minimum for negotiating small roots and rocks. They are kind of the moped size category. I estimate 1-4 months for you.

16x2.5” (V10F) would already be a great upgrade, and would help you conquer obstacles with less effort. 3-8 months.

16x3” (V12, 16X, Nikola) is much larger, and they have much more powerful motors and batteries. This is the first size group that you might actually enjoy for a year or two, and they are pretty capable for most off-road riding.

18” with suspension (V11, S20, Hero) or without (18L/18XL, RS, Sherman, …) are the kings of the streets and off-road. Especially with suspension, the comfortable range is much larger than on smaller tires, and the difference in stability is much more than the size difference would suggest.

Off-road. The obstacles I could barely pass with the 16S, I can easily cruise over with the V11 at 3x the speed. The difference in capability and enjoyment is larger than you can ever imagine. The weight difference (17kg vs 27kg) is meaningless while riding or trolleying.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to help you avoid the hassle of upgrading in a few months. Whether you’ll catch on with riding or not, a small wheel will only last you some months. Buying into the end game right away won’t cost you much more even if you decide to give up, and it has a great chance of being the one you’d end up enjoying your heart out with long term anyway.

[Unventor]

On 9/28/2021 at 7:56 PM, sadarahu said:

I am 150 LB, 50+ YO.
Here are some features I am Interested in:
1) RANGE
2) WEIGHT
3) 60% city, 40% OFF-ROAD
4) CHARGING TIME
5) COMFORT-STABILITY

I do not care about:
- lightning
- speakers
- speed (as long as it is 15mph+

Alright this is a good list of point to give recommendations on. 

I am a little unsure about the 2nd point. If it need to be light because of lifting or heavy because of stability. 

It you are long at a light wheel that rules out range in general as battery is the heavy part together with the motor. 

Looking at comfort and off road riding I suggest a wide tire preferably 3” and I would look at 18" over  16" too. I would maybe not look too hard at suspension because of your list. 

About charging there is not a huge difference overall since most use same cells more or less and that dictate charging speeds until we see new battery technology. Topping up from 30 to 80% is much faster process than from 50-100% so if you have big enough battery it should help you with both range and charging to enough to ride again. But once in a while you will need to full charge and enter balancing cells and that takes time.

I don't recommend GW branded wheels. That comes because of their design choices. I think the KS16X would be a great match maybe KS18XL. Sometimes you can get a bargain on a V11. The biggest point here is battery at 1500wh or more. 

If you want a lighter wheel KS18L or V10f and it cost less but you must charge it more frequently to go same range due to smaller battery. 

I gather from your research and post that it is your first EUC. So that is normal not to know how big a change this will be for you and how much you will be using it. And you might need to learn how to ride too. If that is the case I would recommend something like the V10F (or KS18L) It is cheap and it can get you started and once you know how to ride and want to do more you will know what you seek in an upgrade.

From my profile you can see I had most of the wheels I talk about. The KS18L/XL is more or less same wheel these days but the difference is battery pack (more weight but more range and safety).

Note: View this post as an add on to the post from @mrelwood above. His post is covering most you need to think about.  Now the 14" wheels are growing out of fashion due to limited range and speed since they didn't have big batteries. Also lower pedal height. But some had high torque that can be useful depending on what you do for off-road. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Unventor

[Unventor]

15 hours ago, sadarahu said:

Yeahh, perhaps power bank in a backpack would be a solution for at least emergency backup.

That is not an option. Power bangs operate at different volts in general and will not surfice to charge a wheel. 

You do not top up wheel in the same way as a mobile phone. This is due to multiple cells on battery that needs to be balanced. 

[Unventor]

17 hours ago, sadarahu said:

One other question:

Has anybody found any wheel with replaceable battery ?  I have seen one some time ago but it was small, and I cannot remember the brand.
I think replaceable battery should be next step in EUC development.

I also would like to know if anybody had ever tried to use some power bank (as temporary solution to get few extra mils when stuck on the way home) ?
 

Like I wrote to your other questions. In general EUCs are not build this way.