INMOTION V12

[Silverfish]

1 hour ago, jimjam.nyc said:

When i spoke to ewheels recently, it was mentioned all v12 boards would be replaced. I had a different smaller issue I was troubleshooting with them, mentioned i would like to purchase a new board if and when they become available and they said that the board would be replaced even without a failure. No timeframe, but basically only because of supply chain issues. 

This was last week. 

 

Edit: I dont know if this is only ewheels, or certain distributors willing to kick in.. or if this is an inmotion thing.. I also expect that this situation is probably still fluid and can possibly change.. 

I also want to state my v12 is fully functional, and both ehweels and inmotion reps have responded to all of my questions regarding pretty much everything with the wheel so far. 

 

I emailed the place I bought it from last week and got a reply saying that amongst other things that Inmotion is still saying that units the survive the spin test are ok. So it might be that eWheels has the volume of sales to pull that off where others can't.

[jimjam.nyc]

8 minutes ago, Silverfish said:

I emailed the place I bought it from last week and got a reply saying that amongst other things that Inmotion is still saying that units the survive the spin test are ok. So it might be that eWheels has the volume of sales to pull that off where others can't.

Here is to hoping it is across the board!

When i first inquired in about the issue in the very beginning i got the same communication.. Pass the Spin test you are good.. That has since changed. I probably wouldnt have known if I wasn't asking questions, but i trust ewheels would eventually send out a communication around it once there are solid dates and times. 

And of course like mentioned in my earlier post.. I will not be shocked or totally destroyed if this changes again and i am out of luck.. I would be disappointed and probably a little burnt, but i have gotten worse support on products lol. 

 

[Rawnei]

Would really like to see something official, don't want to argue back and forth with my reseller based on what other resellers might or might not be doing. 😓

[Silverfish]

28 minutes ago, jimjam.nyc said:

 

And of course like mentioned in my earlier post.. I will not be shocked or totally destroyed if this changes again and i am out of luck.. I would be disappointed and probably a little burnt, but i have gotten worse support on products lol. 

 

I am going to get mine fixed with or without their support as soon as I can because I would like to use my wheel before the fall when the weather turns shitty again. But if its completely at my own expense I will consider it my duty to steer everyone who asks me away from getting one unless they want to risk random crashes from unreliable products.

[conecones]

5 hours ago, supercurio said:

@conecones absolutely understandable - everything.

I believe that the replacements board will arrive sooner than later tho. Since it'll be on everybody's and their distributor's radar, failures with the new board will be identified without delay, and reduce the amount of time before as a community we could trust the fixed V12 or not.
On the basis that you also have Nikola+ and RS19 HT listed on your profile, I'd like to make a new attempt at gently nudge you to ride these in the meantime 😊
Also because the mechanism you describe matches the sunk cost fallacy. What do you think?

I forgot to update my profile so unfortunately I no longer have the V8 or Nikola...and the RS is heavily modified for off-road so not very good as a commuter (trolley handle removed). I commute 30km daily rain or shine so the next best option would be the 18XL/16X but it does not have the speed headroom I would like for the streets in winter (faster/larger roadways get snow cleared sooner).

The reason I continue to ride is less a sunk cost issue and more because the V12 is just the perfect wheel for me otherwise. It's like that perfect relationship where you simultaneously love and hate the other, usually caused by lack of communication. Where is that APP test? What exactly is being fixed on the new boards? What is the actual failure % so we can properly make our own risk assessments? We are owed answers which are way overdue.

For now all I can do is continue to report on strange behaviour in hopes of finding others who have similar symptoms. Maybe if/when I burn another board it will serve as a good data point. At the very least I can stop thinking about it and finally move on with my life.  

[techyiam]

6 hours ago, conecones said:

...

I commute 30km daily rain or shine so the next best option would be the 18XL/16X but it does not have the speed headroom I would like for the streets in winter (faster/larger roadways get snow cleared sooner).
 

I do something similar, except for the larger roadways. You are so right about the faster/larger roadways getting the snow cleared sooner. They are so tempting. However, I am not ready for speed yet; it is a no go for me for now. 

6 hours ago, conecones said:

The reason I continue to ride is less a sunk cost issue and more because the V12 is just the perfect wheel for me otherwise.

In my infinite wisdom, I decided to ride the T3. The T3 did great through heavy rainfalls. Inside the shell, everything was mint. Super clean. Everything was going great unti it didn't. After a couple weeks of snow riding, the bearings finally succumbed to the salt. I can't say I was not surprised since I was warned many times about riding in the rain. Surprisingly, it survived that. So I knew what I was getting myself into going in. I had already watched it-Monkey's video. But I had to know how far can I push it.

I concur that the V12 can be a great all weather commuter if the mosfet issue is fully resolved. 

Edited February 23, 2022 by techyiam

[WillCO]

I reached out to my V12 vendor (EUCO) regarding replacement boards, this was the response...

"We will be shipping the newly updated boards out to existing V12 customers once we receive them. An estimate is April but could be later depending on various factors such as InMotion's production and distribution rate of these boards."

Waiting game.

 

[spitfire1337]

16 hours ago, jimjam.nyc said:

When i spoke to ewheels recently, it was mentioned all v12 boards would be replaced. I had a different smaller issue I was troubleshooting with them, mentioned i would like to purchase a new board if and when they become available and they said that the board would be replaced even without a failure. No timeframe, but basically only because of supply chain issues. 

This was last week. 

 

Edit: I dont know if this is only ewheels, or certain distributors willing to kick in.. or if this is an inmotion thing.. I also expect that this situation is probably still fluid and can possibly change.. 

I also want to state my v12 is fully functional, and both ehweels and inmotion reps have responded to all of my questions regarding pretty much everything with the wheel so far. 

 

Alienrides sent out an email today that states all v12s purchased through them would get replacement boards. And estimate that it will be may when they're received. 

[supercurio]

Thanks @spitfire1337 for sharing.

Glad to hear that more and more distributors communicate with their customers about the V12 replacement program Inmotion negotiated with them.
The first I heard about it was on February 17, after Inmotion confirmed that terms were being discussed with distributors.

IMO @Alien Rides is absolutely doing the right thing by recommending customers to stop riding their V12 in the meantime, I'm really glad to hear that. Hopefully it'll be the message broadcasted by all distributors: it's necessary in order to reach every V12 owner.

In case you were wondering, AlienRides offer here is directly inherited from Inmotion's terms, which are:

• distributors get an "upgraded" V12 board for each V12 they ordered so far
• Inmotion offers a flat $100 per V12 to cover cost of repair.
• Inmotion does not reimburse shipping or repair costs on a case by case basis.
• the $100 come as a rebate on future orders from the distributors. Alien Rides giving a $100 refund to existing customers for self install is pretty classy in my book, and shows their continued commitment to work with Inmotion further.

Awesome @Alien Rides will make their own repair video too.

It seems some distributors have not been contacted by Inmotion yet however. Yesterday I read that EUCSALE customers were still told that only the dead board would be replaced.
I'm really hoping all the distributors out here will take this seriously. If they don't then it's clearly not where you should buy your future wheels.

[Rawnei]

So I just received confirmation from my reseller (ECUShop) that they too will be getting new mainboards, so it seems this is a global thing.

[Richardo]

Still no word on what the change to the board will be? Would love to have a part number for the new mosfet!

[Silverfish]

It's nice to see something official. Deliver something reliable and I am a happy camper.

[Rawnei]

2 hours ago, Richardo said:

Still no word on what the change to the board will be? Would love to have a part number for the new mosfet!

Nope, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't have that info until the boards arrive around may but I would be happily surprised if Inmotion revealed more before. 😁

1 hour ago, Silverfish said:

It's nice to see something official. Deliver something reliable and I am a happy camper.

Yes but I also see a missed opportunity by Inmotion here to get some positive PR by announcing it officially instead of us finding out through resellers, don't get me wrong the whole thing is good but I see missed opportunity for easy PR. 🙂

[Silverfish]

20 minutes ago, Rawnei said:

Yes but I also see a missed opportunity by Inmotion here to get some positive PR by announcing it officially instead of us finding out through resellers, don't get me wrong the whole thing is good but I see missed opportunity for easy PR. 🙂

If its a negotiation with each individual reseller then I can see why that's no so easy. Telling an owner that their store will help them before InMotion has settled on terms with the store is probably going to ruffle some feathers. 

Edited February 24, 2022 by Silverfish

[supercurio]

6 hours ago, Richardo said:

Still no word on what the change to the board will be? Would love to have a part number for the new mosfet!

I asked Inmotion to share the MOSFET reference as well as electronic diagram in order for our experts to review, but they don't seem ready to share that yet.
Ideally the community could review if everything looks good on paper before mass production of these boards is started.

3 hours ago, Silverfish said:

If its a negotiation with each individual reseller then I can see why that's no so easy. Telling an owner that their store will help them before InMotion has settled on terms with the store is probably going to ruffle some feathers. 

Since there are a few key elements which appear in multiple resellers communication, we can probably assume that the terms are the same for all of them, worldwide (aside from possibly some specific exceptions which we won't hear about).

But the fact Inmotion does not come forward announcing all V12 is indeed defective, not safe to ride and need repair creates some confusion.
For instance I talked to EUCSALE this morning and despite a conversation which went very wrong in public on Facebook on the topic, it appears the owner is not comfortable announcing anything until Inmotion does first.
By doing so, he gets accused to not care about his customers, while it seems he doesn't to have to announce the bad news of a need for repair to blissfully unaware customers.

Anyway, I hope all distributors will step up and contact all their V12 customers. And we can already see that if they don't, it will be to the detriment of their reputation.

Now thumbs up to

EUCO:

 

Freemotion:

e-Rides:

As well as eWheels and Alien Rides seen earlier, and I'm sure many more.

[terlikaa]

Denis Hagov from eucsale.com just confirmed, that all v12 users will receive new board. 

 

[supercurio]

9 minutes ago, terlikaa said:

Denis Hagov from eucsale.com just confirmed, that all v12 users will receive new board. 

 

Nice, it looks like a certain chat had a positive effect 😉

Although we disagree on "safe to ride" statement, everyone can make their own mind about it.

Edited February 24, 2022 by supercurio

[Cress]

I got an email from Jason at eWheels this afternoon.  My understanding is that Inmotion is using HGB039N15M (TO-263), Hunteck.  Jason did not specify anything further and I think he would disclose wh

best information I can find to compare and evaluate, I hope we see hi-definition pictures and/or schematics.  And . . . it will be nice to know how Inmotion resolves heat-sink mounting, an issue in the board-swap no matter what other differences in the new board.

____________

And I should have looked more carefully at the note from eWheels.  Hunteck also makes the device in TO-220 package, HGP039N15M vs HGB039N15M
Likely information is going back-and-forth between Inmotion and Distributers without proof-reading.  In any case, we need answers to the same questions
and Inmotion would be the best source.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Cress

[Tawpie]

It's definitely an improvement on paper http://www.hunteck.com/Datasheets/HGP(B)039N15M_V1.0_090320.pdf but will require quite a bit of redesign since the TO-263 is designed to be connected to its heatsink without using bolts or screws. Gate drive likely has to change as well but hopefully that's just different Rs and Cs, maybe some diode changes.

"By the book" they probably have to redo their FCC Part B unless it's common to the HT variant.

I'm guessing this is the "more durable MOS" that was designed for the HT version and it's being adapted (firmware) to the existing wheel. I have no idea how the heatsink is going to change... you will get a drive board+heatsink as an assembly. (famous last words!)

Edited February 25, 2022 by Tawpie

[supercurio]

Thanks @Cress for sharing your findings!

In the call I had with Inmotion on January 20, the R&D director described they were currently evaluating two MOSFET options from the same supplier, one 12xV and 150V.
I didn't hear or remember the name well back then but it seems to match what Jason said.

Looks good on paper too, I look forward to deep dives in the datasheet 

@Tawpie yes it is expected that both V12 HS and HT will share the same board, with a different firmware.
Like speculated in the beginning, I think it was their plan all along, but I doubt anybody will confirm that.

Edited February 25, 2022 by supercurio

[Cress]

8 minutes ago, Tawpie said:

It's definitely an improvement on paper http://www.hunteck.com/Datasheets/HGP(B)039N15M_V1.0_090320.pdf but will require quite a bit of redesign since the TO-263 is designed to be connected to its heatsink without using bolts or screws. Gate drive likely has to change as well but hopefully that's just different Rs and Cs, maybe some diode changes.

"By the book" they probably have to redo their FCC Part B unless it's common to the HT variant.

I'm guessing this is the "more durable MOS" that was designed for the HT version and it's being adapted (firmware) to the existing wheel. I have no idea how the heatsink is going to change... you will get a drive board+heatsink as an assembly. (famous last words!)

I edited my post, above, about 30 seconds after re-reading the manufacturer's release notes.  We don't have reliable information, the best source, Inmotion, isn't releasing anything and technical information from Distributors is limited to whatever Inmotion tells Distributors.

[supercurio]

3 minutes ago, Cress said:

I edited my post, above, about 30 seconds after re-reading the manufacturer's release notes.  We don't have reliable information, the best source, Inmotion, isn't releasing anything and technical information from Distributors is limited to whatever Inmotion tells Distributors.

Thanks, I'll try to get it confirmed.
In the discussion with Inmotion R&D they mentioned at the time that it was the same package type as before (but it doesn't say it could have changed if they found a way to make it work)

Most likely we would see the TO-220 HGP039N15M then.

Edited February 25, 2022 by supercurio

[supercurio]

Got a reply from Inmotion, which opens more questions so I asked for clarification:

Quote

We have two Mosfets models:
HY5012W（TO-247）and  HGP039N15M（T0-220）

What I am wondering:

• Will there be different board and heatsink for V12 and V12 HT
• Is final design not decided yet
• Is evaluation of MOSFET still ongoing, or supply not secured yet so that would be one or the other depending on results

[RArtem]

32 minutes ago, supercurio said:

Got a reply from Inmotion, which opens more questions so I asked for clarification:

What I am wondering:

• Will there be different board and heatsink for V12 and V12 HT
• Is final design not decided yet
• Is evaluation of MOSFET still ongoing, or supply not secured yet so that would be one or the other depending on results

HY5012W（TO-247）aren't these mosfets being used on Begode 100V wheels?

[supercurio]

15 minutes ago, RArtem said:

HY5012W（TO-247）aren't these mosfets being used on Begode 100V wheels?

Yes indeed as well as Veteran Sherman, hence proven.

Edited February 25, 2022 by supercurio