Better charging connectors.

[null]

edit: Changing title to encompass better charging connectors altogether, doesn't have to be about Y splits.

Been using XT-60 till now due to the high headroom, easy solder and compact form factor.

These are made for internal use though, they can take a moment to align, they are small to grab, they do not hold the cable for stress relief on the solder.

XLR which I first rejected as I thought they where huge might in the end be much more fit. Up to 16A, structure made to be handled. Not that huge. edit: Official limit to 50V..

Neutrik SpeakON (pro successor to XLR) /
PowerCON looked solid bit maybe a bit chunky. (16A/20A)

M12 K coded takes 12A and 630V.

Cnlinko LP-12 but just 5A , LP-20 can do 20A though. (chunky like powerCon)

Any other good candidates? Opinions?

Edited May 1, 2021 by null

[supercurio]

I also converted most chargers, PSU and others to XT60 with good results.

But it's a great question, these SpeakON connectors look neat! Looking forward to read more about these and alternatives.

[WI_Hedgehog]

What about the powerCON TRUE1 TOP (True Outdoor Protection) for heavy-duty and harsh environment applications. 16 amps, 250 volts, come in both panel connector and plugs.

Edited April 14, 2021 by WI_Hedgehog

[null]

@supercurio Yes XT-60 behave fine, they can come preinstalled and by cutting a tiny taper in the plastic edge slots in easily. I'm still a bit worried about the solidity to wear and tear though.. Maybe a 3D printed plastic housing could help protect between the connector and the cable.

@WI_Hedgehog Nice, yes these PowerCON seem to be in the same family as speakON but rated for mains which is great. What we should have on large EUCs. I'll look closer and post here if I find something.

(BTW I looked closer at XLR, they should probably take 100V but are rated for 50V only, so probably not interesting enough.)

Edited April 14, 2021 by null

[Stadler]

On 4/13/2021 at 11:06 PM, WI_Hedgehog said:

What about the powerCON TRUE1 TOP (True Outdoor Protection) for heavy-duty and harsh environment applications. 16 amps, 250 volts, come in both panel connector and plugs.

Dang these look promising!  

[supercurio]

Is the powerCON TRUE1 TOP the connector used on the Rion scooters?
Edit: from the color I'm guessing the powerCON 20 A: https://www.neutrik.com/en/neutrik/products/powercon/powercon-20-a

It looks like in @Alien Rides's RE90 review video here (with timestamp)

 

Edited April 17, 2021 by supercurio

[null]

Nice, I'd really like to stop the stupid doubling of both pins and connectors we do currently.
Considering whether I could mount one on the Sherman to replace the dual GX16.

As I understood they had a couple of versions of powerCON, some who are not made for breakage and look like twist lock like these (or whatever they call pull out while powered) but also some who can be pulled live.

In any case this looks totally like the speakON / powerCON series if it isn't a clone.

Edited April 17, 2021 by null

[fbhb]

2 hours ago, null said:

In any case this looks totally like the speakON / powerCON series if it isn't a clone.

Definitely High quality German NAC3FCA | Neutrik connectors, as can be distinguished by the Neutrik logo on the release button!

Edited April 17, 2021 by fbhb

[Lokomisiek]

I have been using powercon (20A) for about 2 months, I think it is the best connector on the market.

[null]

Very nice, thanks for sharing.
I just happened to have the chassis connector in the shopping cart, pondering the very mod you have but on a Sherman.

edit: I'll change the thread title to "Better charging connectors" or something as it doesn't have to be for Y splits.
 

Edited April 21, 2021 by null

[null]

Just received a Powercon True1 clone to fiddle with, will buy an original Neutrik if I should go further with these.
Its feels right, good and chunky. Would vote for this on a EUC any day.
But the size and weight.. makes me reconsider whether it's fit for an adapter connection..
This thing is made to be mashed by flight cases all day long..
Maybe I should just 3D print a shell for the XT-60 solder area, to protect from torsion and give more surface to grab on. 

XT-60:..............7g
PowerCON:...70g

Hmmmm

Edited April 27, 2021 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

What problem are you trying to solve?

What's wrong with GX16?
(With two pin pairs connected, it's a 10A connector... cheap and ubiquitous)

The main alternative I've used is XT90 (with or without the anti-spark resistor), which can be used with a wire support boot, and breaks-away rather nicely when yanked. The 90A rating is overkill of course, but the XT90 is easier to cycle manually than XT60 or -30 simply because it's not so tiny...

[null]

17 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

What problem are you trying to solve?

What's wrong with GX16?
(With two pin pairs connected, it's a 10A connector... cheap and ubiquitous)

The main alternative I've used is XT90 (with or without the anti-spark resistor), which can be used with a wire support boot, and breaks-away rather nicely when yanked. The 90A rating is overkill of course, but the XT90 is easier to cycle manually than XT60 or -30 simply because it's not so tiny...

I need to pass 10A from a single charger into two GX-16 on the EUC, and need a Y split.
While a GX-16-5 using double pins could theoretically take 10A, I read several recommendations against it due to heat (1000W)

My issue with XT-60 is that it isn't made for handling, it is conceived for internal use. (for which it is great)
But when lugging around the charger + y split in bags, manipulating it regularly it will be pulled and pushed at various angles. I worry for the solder points (not the solder but the copper wire being bent at the same place, sometimes at a hard angle) Connectors made for being manipulated always have the wire held by the housing and not by the copper strand.

XT-90 would probably be better for mnipulation indeed (more to grab on) but the cable isn't held there either.
Hence I'm considering to make a housing to hold a XT-60 (or 90) + clamp the cable..

If there wasn't the whole charging order affair I'd probably just solder the split (lots of wrap for the bend) and connect the main last.

Its a bit stupid to have to use a connector as a interruptor, but there it is..

Edited April 27, 2021 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

Sherman. Gotcha.

Yes it's annoying that the controller prevents you from putting 10A on a single port.

But 10A is truly not alarming when using 4 pins on GX16. I do it with my 84V MSX occasionally, and feel no signficant heating at the connector.

Isn't the easiest way to make Sherman take 10A on one port, to splice the two ports together inside the EUC? (Instead of making a Y-cable...)
Just be sure 4 pins on the connector are used in both the EUC and the charger cable.

[null]

20 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

But 10A is truly not alarming when using 4 pins on GX16. I do it with my 84V MSX occasionally, and feel no signficant heating at the connector.

Isn't the easiest way to make Sherman take 10A on one port, to splice the two ports together inside the EUC? (Instead of making a Y-cable...)
Just be sure 4 pins on the connector are used in both the EUC and the charger cable.

Glad to hear a positive experience from using 10A over 4 pins, its what GW rated for the Monster V3 AFAIK. The pins are officially supposed to take 5A each as well, so I found it a bit a shame that it was recommended against. edit: (840W vs 1000W though)

The newer Shermans have double pinned GX16, so yes that would be an option. (each port go to a XT-30, so the split could be there)
But then if I go that far I could also replace a EUC side GX16 with a PowerCon and never worry again. Questions questions  

Edited April 27, 2021 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

3 minutes ago, null said:

I could also replace a GX16 with a PowerCon

... which means mounting a new bulkhead connector? And re-terminating your charger cord?
Sounds like cost and effort with no benefit

5 minutes ago, null said:

840W vs 1000W though

Connectors experience resistive heating according to (amps)^2 * (ohms) = (watts). 
The (ohms) of the connector is set by its terminal design- XT60 has a lower resistance than XT30, etc.
Notice how Volts doesn't appear in that formula... 10A @ 84V vs 10A @ 100V is no different, with regard to the connector.

[null]

14 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

.. which means mounting a new bulkhead connector? And re-terminating your charger cord?
Sounds like cost and effort with no benefit

Between rewiring an existing GX16 (which I dont like soldering because it is small) / replacing it with one that is already double OR install a new connector which use handy large spade crimp terminals .. Both seem as much hassle to me.. For the charger side connector PowerCon uses screw clamp, same as any mains connector, very easy to do.

14 minutes ago, RagingGrandpa said:

Connectors experience resistive heating according to (amps)^2 * (ohms) = (watts). 
The (ohms) of the connector is set by its terminal design- XT60 has a lower resistance than XT30, etc.
Notice how Volts doesn't appear in that formula... 10A @ 84V vs 10A @ 100V is no different, with regard to the connector.

Ok good to know then, thanks. (I trust your math, and want to believe the GX16 isn't too borderline)
So the only issue higher voltages would be arching? (sorry I shouldn't start a off-topic here  )

Edited April 27, 2021 by null

[RagingGrandpa]

15 minutes ago, null said:

rewiring an existing GX16

But it's easier than that- leave the GX16's alone, just splice the wires leading from the two GX16's, back together inside the shell of the Sherman...

If it were me, since physical access is tight, instead of stripping and soldering the EUC harness I would make a little 4-connector XT30 H-harness to join the existing connectors. A simple plug-in modification... Nice that XT30's are tiny and cheap.

(I think the practical reason why it wasn't spliced by Veteran is: they needed an easy way to allow assembly of the separate the halves of the shell, and with one port on each side, there isn't a convenient way to join them without the independent connectors.)

 

15 minutes ago, null said:

the only issue higher voltages would be arc

Insulation ratings. It's all well within range, not to worry.

Edited April 27, 2021 by RagingGrandpa

[null]

(Thanks for the Voltage side-note)

As it is  the Sherman logic board has two inputs for power: one XT-30 for each GX-16 socket. (I guess they are spliced on the board)
The older (most) Shermans have only two wired pins, so to double I would have to solder an extra wire for each "new" pin (4x).

If I understand you right you are assuming that the GX-16 sockets on the Sherman already have 4x active pins, but they dont.. They will have to be soldered or replaced..

As for joining in H Yes that would probably be best to spread the power over the two logic board entries.

Here is a figure I intended to confirm the wiring of power con.
I added what I understand you are suggesting.

Left: Current original state ;
Middle: What I believe you are saying ;
Right: How I would add a power con and keep a GX16 for compatilility.

 

[RagingGrandpa]

2 minutes ago, null said:

The older (most) Shermans have only two wired pins

Oh, that's unfortunate

2 minutes ago, null said:

so to double I would have to solder an extra wire for each "new" pin

Yes

2 minutes ago, null said:

Middle: What I believe you are saying

Exactly. Enjoy.

[null]

Great, thanks for all the input  
Will see what it becomes.

Edited April 27, 2021 by null

[RockyTop]

@null I like your solution.  

[null]

5 minutes ago, RockyTop said:

@null I like your solution.  

Appreciated  
It will probably go the path of less resistance, whatever that is. 

[Giffy]

Is there a master thread on how fast I can charge my wheels? It seems like people are charging them at a much higher amp rating than is recommended. I'm wondering what I can get away with and at what point do I have to start modding?

[null]

31 minutes ago, Giffy said:

Is there a master thread on how fast I can charge my wheels? It seems like people are charging them at a much higher amp rating than is recommended. I'm wondering what I can get away with and at what point do I have to start modding?

There isn’t a master thread but it could be useful to group info. (Ie battery charge speed, port specs..)

There are people who go above recommendations, but it’s way more common to go to the max of the producer rating (which is generally quite more than the stock charger). Sherman and KS18XL are rated for 10A, many Gotway between 5 and 10A..

Edited April 30, 2021 by null