A battery miracle for PEVs? Extreme fast Charging by Storedot.

[Finn Bjerke]

Charging huge battery packs in just 5 minutes is possible now? Is this too good to be true? Israeli tech could actually solve global problems instead of creating them? (that was sarcasm get over it) Storedot are taking litium batteries to the next level it seems: 
Since it sounds to good to be true I choose BBC articles, but google it youssef: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55717296

More info here: https://thedriven.io/2021/01/21/israels-storedot-unveils-5-minute-charge-ev-battery/

[meepmeepmayer]

It seems there is a tradeoff where faster charging means less capacity. I'd rather have more capacity.

Here's a detailed article: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/whats-the-technology-behind-a-five-minute-charge-battery/

Quote

The bet that StoreDot is making is that it's not the absolute charge range of an electric vehicle that matters; it's how quickly you can extend that range. So, while it's leveraging research on technologies that allow greater capacity in lithium-ion batteries, it's turning around and sacrificing some of that capacity in order to make charging faster.

I don't like that approach. Vehicles are unused for most of the time, plenty of time to charge slower for most people I would guess.

For EUCs, you can have two 5A chargers with many wheels, but carrying those big ass chargers might be the real limitation already. A faster charger would be even bigger. So unless you can charge on one of those car charging stations, you have that disadvantage.

Personally, I'd rather have range and weight improvements instead of faster charging on a wheel.

[null]

Most EUCs max charging speed isn’t even reaching top of « normal » speed for the current batteries. Manufacturers could start with that if they cared..

(always nice with development un batteries but between the vapor ware and those that don’t concern us, we’ll probably not see any major changes in a while)

[GoGeorgeGo]

3 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It seems there is a tradeoff where faster charging means less capacity. I'd rather have more capacity.

Here's a detailed article: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/whats-the-technology-behind-a-five-minute-charge-battery/

I don't like that approach. Vehicles are unused for most of the time, plenty of time to charge slower for most people I would guess.

For EUCs, you can have two 5A chargers with many wheels, but carrying those big ass chargers might be the real limitation already. A faster charger would be even bigger. So unless you can charge on one of those car charging stations, you have that disadvantage.

Personally, I'd rather have range and weight improvements instead of faster charging on a wheel.

If you didnt need a 3000wh battery in the case though they could integrate the charger directly into the wheel body.  Honestly the 1800 wh 100v batteries get plenty of range and safety overhead on a charge.  If you could charge an MSP in 5 minutes? Thats a total game changer.  

No need to make huge bulky wheels, you can have all the advantages of a smaller wheel without sacrafice of taking shorter trips.  You just need to find an outlet and 5 minutes later your full.  Sounds like a dream scenario to me, its the more logistically possible version of doing hard battery swaps

[AtlasP]

6 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

It seems there is a tradeoff where faster charging means less capacity. I'd rather have more capacity.

Here's a detailed article: https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/01/whats-the-technology-behind-a-five-minute-charge-battery/

I don't like that approach. Vehicles are unused for most of the time, plenty of time to charge slower for most people I would guess.

For EUCs, you can have two 5A chargers with many wheels, but carrying those big ass chargers might be the real limitation already. A faster charger would be even bigger. So unless you can charge on one of those car charging stations, you have that disadvantage.

Personally, I'd rather have range and weight improvements instead of faster charging on a wheel.

I have to agree with George.

A ~1600-2k Wh onboard capacity with built-in charger and super high-speed charging capability could be distinctly lighter than the 3000+ Wh behemoths we're starting to see, while matching and really exceeding their useful range. (Pull over to charge in anything less than 20 minutes and suddenly your range is doubled? That's a "bathroom break + grabbing a coffee" or "poking around reddit on your phone for 15 minutes" time window--i.e. basically 'free'.)

Edited January 24, 2021 by AtlasP

[houseofjob]

11 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Charging huge battery packs in just 5 minutes is possible now? Is this too good to be true? Israeli tech could actually solve global problems instead of creating them? (that was sarcasm get over it) Storedot are taking litium batteries to the next level it seems: 
Since it sounds to good to be true I choose BBC articles, but google it youssef: https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/55717296

More info here: https://thedriven.io/2021/01/21/israels-storedot-unveils-5-minute-charge-ev-battery/

Interesting, but sorely lacking on details, mainly what the capacity per volume sacrifice is (esp. for LFP chemistry), as @meepmeepmayer is saying. Not to mention how steady the amp discharge in parallel packs, in use at various outputs/speeds, if it's still competitive with today's preferred EUC cells like the NCA chemistry Pano GA's or NMC chemistry M50T's .

I'll admit, the StoreDot 10C charge rate claim is very intriguing, given that current rates are below 1C.

And FWIW, the whole heating to optimize charging isn't new, Tesla has been doing this for awhile now for Supercharging; I guess it's just that no one's experimented on lower capacity cells like LFP, since they're not really used on already range-challenged EVs(?). 

 

5 hours ago, meepmeepmayer said:

For EUCs, you can have two 5A chargers with many wheels, but carrying those big ass chargers might be the real limitation already. A faster charger would be even bigger. So unless you can charge on one of those car charging stations, you have that disadvantage.

You can, so why not! 

J1772 PEV adapter + Chargery C10325 V2 1500W 24S multifunction charger, which doesn't add much more weight or bulk at 2.5 kg / 5.5 lbs and 275*170*68 mm / 10.8"x6.7"x2.7", just isn't super cheap.

 

2 hours ago, GoGeorgeGo said:

If you didnt need a 3000wh battery in the case though they could integrate the charger directly into the wheel body.  Honestly the 1800 wh 100v batteries get plenty of range and safety overhead on a charge.  If you could charge an MSP in 5 minutes? Thats a total game changer.  

No need to make huge bulky wheels, you can have all the advantages of a smaller wheel without sacrafice of taking shorter trips.  You just need to find an outlet and 5 minutes later your full.  Sounds like a dream scenario to me, its the more logistically possible version of doing hard battery swaps

Eh, a few misleading minuses here IMHO.

Adding a charger into the wheel body, as has been brought up many a time on the forums, adds unnecessary weight, not necessarily just in terms of discomfort in carrying, but off-setting the weight distribution of the wheel (ie. concentrating the main weight elements as close and tight around the wheel axle / center as possible), which is already difficult because a.) battery packs are bulky and heavy in general, and b.) it's hard to utilize the space under the wheel axle / center, because of pedal / shell clearance, not to mention that under-area is more prone to rain/splash etc.

Also, IMHO, ~ 6P and below battery packs suffer in various degrees from becoming super weak sub 30-40% battery for high amp draw, and riding such 6P and below wheels to their hardest tends to drain the packs much faster than their higher parallel battery pack counterparts. Even if you did something like the OG eWheels special InMotion V5F+ configuration, with 2P LG HG2 20A cells (higher 20A amp discharge to offset the lack of parallel packs), you still suffer from this phenomenon due to the lack of numbers in parallel.

So, maybe more for like a lighter, fast-charging, super conservative speed/performance wheel, do I see a useful application, ie. more V10F than MSP.  The minute you start demanding more speed and/or power, you start hitting the limits.

Edited January 24, 2021 by houseofjob