EUCs vs Motorcycles vs Cars

[.....]

9 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

Euc is my choice, fun to ride until the day they start registration, licensing the euc, because there are people in this group that treat and ride it like a motorcycle....

You aint putting the blame of the inevitable on me. Sell all your wheels or you are also to blame.

[Scottie888]

18 minutes ago, MetricUSA said:

Euc is my choice, fun to ride until the day they start registration, licensing the euc, because there are people in this group that treat and ride it like a motorcycle....

In a general sense,I'd have to agree with this statement. Regardless of where, there are some who treats their wheels like a motorized vehicle as defined by code. Worse there are some who weave in/out of traffic like the lawless bunch in the wild wild west.

I get it. Its can be fun & for sure, convenient. But EUCs are NOT motorcycles & shouldn't be ridden close to that. At best, they can be a monowheel equivalent to the bicycle. Wheels mixing (oft time dangerously) in traffic garner the eyes of the law & irate drivers which at the end of the day can bring about changes that can affect EUCs negatively. 

Besides the fact that personally, I hate going on public roadways as I feel its mighty dangerous, its not at all fun to me. Maybe I shouldn't talk as I'm lucky that where I am, there are ~1000 klicks of paved dedicated bike paths so I don't have to ride in traffic. That said, proactively I even got an S18 so I can have fun offroad as well.

I get the fun & thrills of riding like the NYC crew but its possible (maybe even likely) that kinda riding gets us all heavily regulated if not outright banned. Only takes 1 bad apple to spoil the whole bunch is alls I'm saying.

[UniGrad]

4 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

Euc is my choice, fun to ride until the day they start registration, licensing the euc, because there are people in this group that treat and ride it like a motorcycle....

Agreed ✔

Too many crazy riders will create a type of notoriety and they will no longer fly under the radar.

But to be fair these new EUCs are basically like motorcycles in terms of what they can do. I equate my Sherman to having a little 150cc motorbike under my toes.
And it's stable at high speed. Can corner at high speed even on gravel. Can even do 60+km/h on sand and feel stable.

So the thing is that people are not gonna ride their motorcycle EUCs like cheap rental scooters 100% of the time.

So this is what I would say. Don't ride super fast around too many people. Try to do it when no one is watching. Or at least don't do it in front of those types that obviously would frown upon it. Some people hate it, some people will cheer and smile.

Edited December 15, 2020 by UniGrad

[UniGrad]

4 hours ago, Scottie888 said:

At best, they can be a monowheel equivalent to the bicycle

I have to disagree there. For starters we have yet to see what "best" is. It's a very young industry and better EUCs will continue to come out every single year for a very long time.

But even ignoring that we already have the Sherman. This wheel is already far more capable than a bicycle in many areas. It has great speed and range of course.
But in terms of stability I feel much safer on my Sherman than I did on my bicycle. This is largely due to the wide tyre. But it's also due to the physics of an EUC. On a bicycle if you are not holding the handlebars firmly while going fast over even a small bump, you can very easily be thrown off the bike. The EUC doesn't have this problem at all. The Sherman can go over large bumps at top speed with zero issues. Even awkward bumps that slope to the side and such. The thing is incredible. But like with any wheel you need to get used to it first. So if you just test ride it a couple of times you won't get anywhere near experiencing it's true stability and capabilities.

Another thing about EUCs is that it's almost impossible to jam up the wheel because of the disturbance compensation being performed by the powerful motor. I told this story before but on my 16x a large pine cone (hard as a rock) got caught up in my wheel and the pine cone got shredded to pieces without me feeling a thing. It was the weirdest thing ever watching the wood chips coming out of the front of the wheel. I just kept on rolling as if nothing happened.

The EUC motor compensates for disturbances extremely rapidly (milisecond level) and does so by applying the torque needed to offset the disturbance. So let's say if a stick were jammed into your spokes while riding. The motor would easily cut through it like butter before it could even affect your ride. The Sherman has a peak output of around 8 horsepower I believe. Possibly more. That's enough power to cut through wood like it wasn't even there.

I guess what I'm saying is that an EUC can be BETTER than a bicycle.

Edited December 16, 2020 by UniGrad

[Scottie888]

14 minutes ago, UniGrad said:

I guess what I'm saying is that an EUC can be BETTER than a bicycle.

I can easily name a bunch of ebikes that can do 30+mph & escoots that'll do btwn 30-50mph. Heck there's even an escoot that'll top 90mph! Yes 90mph or 150kph! That does not make them motorized vehicles for public roadways as defined by DOT/MOT. It does not make them safe to mix with auto/trucks nevermind the legalities.

You're making an argument for doing something because you can. Just because one can doesn't mean one should nor is it wise or legal as well. Because doing so will bring social & legal implications that could very well spell the end of our beloved hobby. FWIW I too can fly off a building like a bird. Its the consequences of such actions that's alarming.

EUCS & ebikes & escoots & esk8s are NOT motorcycles not matter how fast they go nor much we want them to be. That's all I'm saying.

[UniGrad]

  

32 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

I can easily name a bunch of ebikes that can do 30+mph

30mph??? I'm pretty sure there's ebikes that can do 100mph
But when I say "better" there's a lot more to it than top speed. How about maneuverability.
1 example that comes to mind is the fact that an EUC has a turning radius about 1000000x smaller than any bike or scooter. Got em well beat in that camp.
And there's many more reasons they're better. How about the fact that they are like 4x smaller. ect. ect.

And the robustness to be able to eat up hard large debris into the spokes without affecting stability.

40 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

You're making an argument for doing something because you can. Just because one can doesn't mean one should nor is it wise or legal as well. Because doing so will bring social & legal implications that could very well spell the end of our beloved hobby.

Yes I can. I've had over 100 encounters with police and 99% of them are okay with the Sherman. One of them said I shouldn't be riding it but he said I can ride it home.
Perhaps these confounded written laws technically suggest that it's not "legal". Even that's questionable since a lot of it is based on very old legislation that has conflicts with local regulations. But the thing is that if the police are okay with it then what's "legal" doesn't matter much.

But I agree that sensible riding is important. I only do fast riding when it's safe to do so and even then I try to minimize it. It really does create a spectacle when these things get moving. The rest of the time I do slow and medium pace riding and I enjoy every bit of it. I enjoy removing my full face helmet and going at jogging pace enjoying the scenery. I enjoy it all.

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by UniGrad

[DPowell]

There is one factor that is very important to mention as far as being reliable, an e-bike (if you are comparing battery powered bikes to an EUC) does not require the power to be on to get you back home.  If you're out of juice or the controller has a malfunction, that EUC is just dead weight.    The e-bike can be ridden back home with human leg power.

[UniGrad]

2 hours ago, DPowell said:

There is one factor that is very important to mention as far as being reliable, an e-bike (if you are comparing battery powered bikes to an EUC) does not require the power to be on to get you back home.  If you're out of juice or the controller has a malfunction, that EUC is just dead weight.    The e-bike can be ridden back home with human leg power.

Very good point. This makes a huge difference in terms of exploring far away places.

Imagine breaking down far out in the woods. You'd probably need to abandon the EUC and start walking. And good luck finding it again.

Good luck even finding your way home. That's gotta be the most stressful decision to make. Dumping your EUC out in the middle of nowhere then walking in some random direction until the EUC is nowhere to be seen.

Edited December 16, 2020 by UniGrad

[Zopper]

11 hours ago, MetricUSA said:

Euc is my choice, fun to ride until the day they start registration, licensing the euc, because there are people in this group that treat and ride it like a motorcycle....

Registration and licensing wouldn't be a big issue. Heck, I would ride more at peace if I had a responsibility insurance for EUC as there are for cars.

The real risk we have here is a ban, and riding between the cars is not the main contributor. It's a reckless riding between people. For example, the centre of Prague is off limits for anything self-balanced. Not because of EUC on roads, but because of groupie rides of tourists on Segways that were making their way through crowds like a pack of steamrollers. And so their police chief hates anything self-balanced.

So if you want to go faster than walk speed, you better do it on the road and not on a sidewalk. Bike paths are not much an option - in the cities here, they are usually either a wider sidewalk and mixed with pedestrians, or it's just a mark on the side of a car lane. If they are there at all. So, I usually ride through back streets, away from the main traffic, but on the road. It's the safest option I have.

 

[Flying W]

Motorcycles were always my favorite due to the human machine blending. Dirt or pavement, I love my bikes.....but the mind meld of the EUC had taken over.

Now I always want to the EUC and the street bike has become a get to work and back tool when the weather is good. 

I've been a motorcycle rider for 25yrs and for the first time I'm considering selling the bike for more EUCs haha

[.....]

2 minutes ago, Flying W said:

Motorcycles were always my favorite due to the human machine blending. Dirt or pavement, I love my bikes.....but the mind meld of the EUC had taken over.

Now I always want to the EUC and the street bike has become a get to work and back tool when the weather is good. 

I've been a motorcycle rider for 25yrs and for the first time I'm considering selling the bike for more EUCs haha

My bike career has been winding down over the last decade. I am finally down to just one motorcycle. Sadly, even it hasnt been ridden much the last year or so. I won't make the mistake of not having at least ONE motorcycle capable of street and off road. As much as I love the euc, gasoline still affords me luxuries an euc can't. For zen like riding, the euc is tops in my book. But, for any SERIOUS distance/speed/off-roading, the euc is a mere toy in compare to current gasoline bikes.. When you can't decide which is better, its because maybe they are both the best and you just HAVE to own both

[Scottie888]

22 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

My bike career has been winding down over the last decade. I am finally down to just one motorcycle. Sadly, even it hasnt been ridden much the last year or so. I won't make the mistake of not having at least ONE motorcycle capable of street and off road. As much as I love the euc, gasoline still affords me luxuries an euc can't. For zen like riding, the euc is tops in my book. But, for any SERIOUS distance/speed/off-roading, the euc is a mere toy in compare to current gasoline bikes.. When you can't decide which is better, its because maybe they are both the best and you just HAVE to own both

I feel the same if not even more so. Having owned Kawis & Cbrrrrrs & even the very 1st R1 in the Canadian West coast, I enjoyed all of them but perhaps its due to age induced timidity, I've lost the zest to chase max speed. I've sold them all & only kept an '04 KTM LC4 640 supermoto. IME its def not the quickest nor fastest but it handles amazingly & goes offroad almost as well. Its the most fun hooligan stunt worthy bike I've owned which is why I kept it but still, I hardly ride it nowadays.

I've been fairly well served with EUCs this year & esp enjoyed the S18 for technical offroad trails. But you're correct in that EUCs are mere toys compared to bikes when in pursuit of ultimate limits & thrills. IMO ofcos

[.....]

10 minutes ago, Scottie888 said:

I feel the same if not even more so. Having owned Kawis & Cbrrrrrs & even the very 1st R1 in the Canadian West coast, I enjoyed all of them but perhaps its due to age induced timidity, I've lost the zest to chase max speed. I've sold them all & only kept an '04 KTM LC4 640 supermoto. IME its def not the quickest nor fastest but it handles amazingly & goes offroad almost as well. Its the most fun hooligan stunt worthy bike I've owned which is why I kept it but still, I hardly ride it nowadays.

I've been fairly well served with EUCs this year & esp enjoyed the S18 for technical offroad trails. But you're correct in that EUCs are mere toys compared to bikes when in pursuit of ultimate limits & thrills. IMO ofcos

How scary... I've had a plethora of bikes and was also chasing that 200mph street machine induced adrenaline. I don't think I've grown timid nor do I have more responsibilities, but its just a HELL of a lot harder to play like that nowadays as traffic and law is quite all encompassing. I too kept ONLY my drz400 supermoto. Funny, of all the big ass litre+ sport bikes and racing motocross and cruisers, I decide to keep just the 400cc bike. I don't even like interstate much on it. I guess when I travel I am old enough to choose comfort. When I want to play... screw comfort, lets go PLAY. My wife insists i keep one bike, and a smaller bike that can manage non-pavement and mountains on knobbies, COULD come in handy if the shit hits the fan. Great mileage and no shortage of parts. A big + for bikes is you can ride 1up or carry an euc on it. Not as easily done, carrying 1up or a bike on an euc. I can swap from street tires and brakes to knobbies big rims and brakes in 10mins with 2 tools. How long does it take to simply change a flat on an euc? Euc suspensions specs... I laugh in compare to a badass bike.

Edited December 19, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[Kekafuch]

I think its about recreation or survival and the infrastructure around.  In my city, there has been a huge focus on bike paths over the past decade and I think other cities likely have had more a head start.  My younger sibling doesn't have a driver's licence and I lined up on my birthday to get a licence.  Having transportation options are great. 

I think most of us are doing EUC as recreation or enjoy finding a social avenue to explore. It would be similar for motorcyclists as people congregate to certain segments and join social groups for rides, track days, quick Sunday rides.  Technology has also become mainstream culture.  Someone's hobby these days can be exploring electronic tech like 3D printing and solar panels.  

I have ridden 250 ninja, 600 ninja, and currently have a 1000cc Twin sport bike.  I ride motorcycle for socializing and Summer fun with very occasional commuting.  For daily grind, I prefer a car or transit.  I enjoy being able to talk with clients , family members, etc and that takes up concentration which is safer in a car or train.  For recreation , if I were to choose right now, I would give up motorcycles and stay with EUC.  EUC is very liberating and now I want to visit cities just to explore their bike lane neighborhoods.  I have become addicted to bike lane infrastructure but I haven't explored bicycles.  Something tells me that long distance on PEV might be safer on something with handle bars.  I guess I need to try it to find out.  Mostly my riding on EUC is on popular paths as I am not comfortable the public is accepting of them in traffic.  If they were legal this might be a different conversation.  

[Scottie888]

15 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

A big + for bikes is you can ride 1up or carry an euc on it. Not as easily done, carrying 1up or a bike on an euc. I can swap from street tires and brakes to knobbies big rims and brakes in 10mins with 2 tools. How long does it take to simply change a flat on an euc? Euc suspensions specs... I laugh in compare to a badass bike.

Which is why I admit I have a bit of a smirk when peeps think EUCs or whatever current PEVs are literal replacement for motorcycles. Sure they will function as a short range urban commuter but that's as far as it goes. & while 50-60mph is the current limit & deemed fast for EUCs, its the starting point for most sportbikes.

We salivated at the current suspension for Wheels because there's really no basis for comparison. Compared to sportbikes, MX & even a good MTB, the suspension in wheels are primitive at best. That said, EUCs don't require the same performance so they don't require much to show a real world improvement.

[Flying W]

@ShanesPlanet if I sell the street triple RS I'm getting a dual sport again lol. I miss having the ability to go anywhere and your right the law is much thicker out there on the fun roads now. 

I had a husky te610 for 10 yrs, only bike I ever kept that long. I still miss it. I put it up on Craigslist ad a semi joke for twice what it was worth and had a call a half hr later. As much as loved that bike I also know you may only get the chance to sell something that far over market value a handful of times so I sold it. 

That bike could hit knarly single track, most vet tracks where the jumps are all table tops for safety, open desert at 90mph, cruise on the freeway at 75...it did everything, just nothing great but that was part of the appeal. 

I also love my street triple rs. It's 90% sport bike but you sit 3\4 upright. 

I think having a one yr old just makes me feel like I'd rather eat it railing a nice singletrack or belly flop off the wheel over dumping it at 80 with a knee on the ground. 

Two of my best friends both had DRZs, one SM like yours and one S. The three of us had way more fun of those than we ever did on sport bikes. 

If money was no object is have a dedicated track bike, a service honda CR500 in a 250f frame and mid size dual sport like my older husky (it was an 06). 

Oh, and at least 4 wheels 

 

[.....]

I will concede that an euc and motorcycle can both be UBER fun at less than stellar speeds. For fun factor, hard to beat a supermoto in a yard or street at a mere 30-40mph. There's a reason they call 'em 'hoodlum' bikes and it aint because you find them in cheap neighborhoods. I would say that in some cases, the fun factor of the euc is eerily similar tho. Going well below top speed on a small euc just provokes a carefree fun type ride. Same as a pitifully small supermoto. You aint going to be chasing the speed demons with either, so the fun is had at more manageable speeds. Ironically, my worst injury to date (aside from beign run over) was at ZERO mph on a skateboard. Life has a wicked sense of humor, whether you admit it or even recognize it. In my collection of wheels, the bike simply picks up where the euc stops.

There is ONE big advantage the euc has over the motocycle at this point in time in my exact location... Lack of legislation...  Even if there is legislation, the enforcers and myself, don't pay it any mind. THIS lawlessness does grant the win for certain brands of fun on an euc. I mean seriously, people are riding them like unlicensed and uninsured cars that don't ever heed traffic light  or stop signs. THen, they dart onto sidewalks and get to abuse the advantages of pedestrian walkways. THEN, you can hop onto a bike path or trail and pretend you belong on those. There are very few things with such a wide berth of useability. For now tho, euc riding is almost under the radar and acting ignorant easily grants a free pass for useage, as long as you arent UBER retarded. Personally, I find it funny to see so many videos of people blatantly running stop signs and lights. I don't agree with it, but the mere fact that the euc niche is so new that you can get away with that shit= priceless! I know when to take advantage of fun that is but for a fleeting moment!

For the math minded...   2 euc = 1 motorcycle. Your garage is imbalanced in tires if you dont have the required 3 items or more. Having an odd number of tires is bad luck. If all else fails, buy a trike to fly to even things out a bit. I've 14 wheels in my garage (if you count 4 on the skateboard). So, its near impossible for me to have bad luck at this point.

Edited December 19, 2020 by ShanesPlanet

[mrelwood]

Oh man, all this talk about Huskies and duals awakens the fever in me! I already wonder if I could still rent the Transalp ‘94-‘06 in the spring somehow, to feed the fever.

 Until that, I’m immeasurably happy riding (what I see as) the Transalp off EUCs...

[Mac]

I have the earlier version of the Yamaha FZS1000 Fazer 2006. Fastest bike I’ve ever owned. Not much out there 0-60 that can keep the tire on the ground and beat me light to light. My friend has the R1 same bike except that it has a prone rider stance. I like the naked stance it’s much more comfortable for me. Probably the most uncomfortable bike I’ve ever owned too I can ride about 100 miles before my ass hurts enough that I need to get off and walk around. One of these days I’m going to change the seat to the Sargent. I’ve been just about ready push the purchase button a few times and think that I could use the $500 somewhere else. Like another downpayment on a Sherman or something...

I’ve promised myself that I’m going to wait for the next iteration of EUC’s this spring before I make another purchase.