Kingson s18 versus Inmotion v11?

[Finn Bjerke]

I was so impressed by chooch "JUMP" video that I decided to get the Kingsong s18, also Kuji comments on Inmotion v11 points a finger at the strength of Kingsongs wheel. Kingsongs Suspension is better  So since I have the MSX for on roading why not get the KS s18? Now Im having second thoughts: The Inmotion V11 seems better build, sturdier and more all round kinda wheel. I commute dailæy 2x15 minutes apart from that I wheel the forrest off roads a lot.  So what should I choose?

S18: Progressiv suspension on a light weight wheel with a lock in padding  is much better for trails in the woods right ?
V11 Suspension + range and more powerfull motorbrakes, safer and more all round wheel, also good for off roading, this is the sane choice? No padding?

Evx Very aestetical video tons of good info: PRo V11, versus chooch fun loving video:   More clever debate here: https://oneradwheel.com/kingsong-s18-vs-inmotion-v11/

 

[h3X]

My impression so far is that the S18 has the best suspension, but the V11 is the best overall "full package".

[Finn Bjerke]

well put

[joca]

32 minutes ago, h3X said:

My impression so far is that the S18 has the best suspension, but the V11 is the best overall "full package".

That seems to be the consensus from all the comparative reviews I've seen: V11 is the best overall but better suspension, pads, and lighter weight favour the S18 for off-roading.

I don't think there is any such thing as a bad decision here? If range isn't an issue, the S18 is cheaper and better for off-road use. If you care a bit about range and less about money, and especially if you want it for mixed use, then the V11 might be a better call.

[UniVehje]

The comparison table at the first post needs some serious updating. Too many specs have changed on both columns. 

While I agree with the general consensus, I still think there is too much emphasis on suspension when it comes to off-roading. It won’t turn you into any better off-roader. You need skills and a good tire. I just did a serious off-road ride yesterday and my thighs are still aching. I’m looking forward to adding more speed and comfort to my rides, sure. But if your commute includes some off-road parts, you’ll be happy with any suspension type. I think you need to very specifically know what you need from suspension to be able to utilize the advantage from more settings on the S18. It’s like buying a better suspension kit for your car just for looks and never take it on the track. Nothing wrong with it, though. 

I think the more important differences from the suspensions types will be comfort and reliability. Some differences will be matters of taste and some will be clearly better or worse. But we’ve been enjoying the hell out of our wheels for years without any suspension. I’m sure anybody choosing one of these new fantastic wheels will do the same with either type. 

I would stress again that putting these wheels head-to-head kinda makes sense because of the one common feature and tire size. But in the end they really represent two classes of wheels, both being on top of their class or type. I don’t really see the S18 as off-road vehicle because of the style and tire, rather as a small sporty car or sport bike. And the V11 represents a BMW M3 or maybe rather M5. Or maybe it is a luxury SUV. And in bike world it would represent a touring bike. A great commuter and touring bike anyway. 

First choose the type of wheel you need and then it’s easier to pick the best wheel within that type. The problem is, that most of the wheels are really general purpose wheels. We’ve not matured enough to have clearly different types like in bicycles for example. 

[Jj Luo]

I don't think these two wheels are direct competition to each other, they both happen to have suspension, that's it.

Suspensions aside, you are essentially comparing an 18L to a msx, what's there to compare? Now add in the suspension factor, You want a 18L with great suspension or msx with good suspension. That completely depends on your usage of the wheel.

[Darrell Wesh]

5 hours ago, UniVehje said:

I still think there is too much emphasis on suspension when it comes to off-roading. It won’t turn you into any better off-roader. You need skills and a good tire. I just did a serious off-road ride yesterday and my thighs are still aching.

I beg to differ. This is why quite a few serious EUC enthusiasts are complaining about suspension. It dumbs down the skill of riding an EUC. Make no mistake about it, suspension WILL make you a better off road rider, and immediately, just like mountain bikes with suspension will. 

 

5 hours ago, UniVehje said:

It’s like buying a better suspension kit for your car just for looks and never take it on the track. Nothing wrong with it, though. 

Not sure how you came to this analogy... Upgrading to better suspension while already having suspension is vastly different from having ZERO suspension and then upgrading to a good suspension 

[Finn Bjerke]

Potholes, roots other (unseen) obstacles: Suspension wheels are safer.?

[UniVehje]

21 minutes ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Potholes, roots other (unseen) obstacles: Suspension wheels are safer.?

Yes, definitely. One of the most important aspects of it IMO. Especially if you didn’t see them coming. 

[UniVehje]

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

I beg to differ. This is why quite a few serious EUC enthusiasts are complaining about suspension. It dumbs down the skill of riding an EUC. Make no mistake about it, suspension WILL make you a better off road rider, and immediately, just like mountain bikes with suspension will.

I’m not disagreeing with that, except suspension will not increase your skill level. But you might be able to ride more difficult paths faster with the same skill level. And it’s not all about suspension, the tire is more important in any case. And, like I wrote, I’m very much lookin forward to having suspension and taking my off-roading to the next level. I was not comparing suspension to non-suspension, rather the two versions of suspension. As long as you have a decent suspension, you’re good for a long time. You only really need to care about having even better suspension once you know what and why you need it and already have the tire and skill level to utilize it. That’s the point and just my opinion. The two wheels compared in this thread are already to two best off-roaders by a wide margin. But to make the choice easier people tend to over emphasize the differences. It’s easier to make it a black and whit issue. 

4 hours ago, Darrell Wesh said:

Not sure how you came to this analogy... Upgrading to better suspension while already having suspension is vastly different from having ZERO suspension and then upgrading to a good suspension 

Yes, a bad analogy. And again, the point was not to compare suspension to non-suspension but two different types of suspension. Maybe a better analogy would be this: You’re starting out downhill biking hobby and you’re investing in the most expensive suspension setup and then install it in a mediocre frame with hybrid street tires. And you ride the easiest hills at beginner level. The best possible suspension is not helping you a bit. It’s just there to make you feel better. 

[Finn Bjerke]

I am comparing 2 wheels in order to buy one of em. Id love to buy 4 wheels from 2020.... I cant afford that.

Picture this: trail riding EUC compitition, may the best wheel win? or rather the best machine-person-skills fit will win. Same competition in Urban concrete asphalt environment might lead ppl to use a different machine in the future?

INNOVATION is a blessing:
In the world of downhill skiing carving skis was the new thing suddenly, safer and better. In the world of Kitesurfing foilboarding is the new thing, more surfdays in a year more fun. etc many examples of that.  If innovation brings more safety and more fun embrace it. Your tech skills will be better if gear is better. Kitesurf gear in the beginning was dangerous, the boards were silly etc. Innovation is a blessing, its driven by compitition among other things.  Suspension EUCs will make trail riding easier, safer but you still have to learn more.  Inmotion have forgotten the sidepad element: keeping the foot in place without too much pressure on it. Same problem the downhill skiers had in t he early days. They invented system to keep your foot in place but in case of crash the ski would fall of... Innovation is a blessing.

New Wheels:
Sherman: Faster, bigger. Dedicated to long journeys and speeding (safely) Also good for invasions?
KS S18: Better suspension, less range. safer better off roader, great for jumping. Dedicated trailfun but also all round solid KS quality.
Inmotion V11: Good suspension more all round machine, good for beginners and ppl who can have only one machine. Good for sitting.
Gotway EX: Suspension is very very Gotway but its fast and bigger wheel is sturdy and safer. 

All in all: Its all good and it will get better in time. I can afford one wheel only. Pls notice older models gets cheaper.

PS: When corona is over lets invent some competitive sports for EUC, that will probably help innovation.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Finn Bjerke

[Finn Bjerke]

KIngsong s18 and Inmotion v11 are competing since very few ppl can afford both wheels. So they compare is my best guess. evX believes suspension is the future, but Inmotions design is better since there is more room for batteries and more range as a consecvense of that.

[Finn Bjerke]

Chooch perfect video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozjcdl3EzDI

[t0me]

When Duf did a range test he seemed to conclude there wasn't much between them.     

Are there any other range tests on either for comparison?

 

[Finn Bjerke]

Im looking forward to Chooch riding inmotion v11 for comparison.

KS S18 is 1100 Wh
Inmotion V11 is 1500 Wh

[t0me]

I get about 30km's out of my inmotion v8 840wh.       16/18 and higher top speeds,  bigger motors,  means....? for range.    Theoretically though.  40km's out of the S18 and 50km's out of the V11 (just by the maths on the battery size alone).     I've seen a post where someone said they did 80km's though on their V11.        If a chunky bloke like me could get 60-70km's out of an S18 and that'd be my next wheel I think.   Otherwise looks like I'll get a V11 as my upgrade wheel.   

Chooch has the V11 now,  has sent the S18 back (according to his Youtube vids),  should see some vids and thoughts on them both soon.    
I suspect he'll offer some conclusions but probably doesn't consider them comparable other than they both have suspension.    

MX vs Enduro might be the parallel?

In an ideal world I'd have both :-)

[UniVehje]

3 hours ago, t0me said:

I get about 30km's out of my inmotion v8 840wh.       16/18 and higher top speeds,  bigger motors,  means....? for range.    Theoretically though.  40km's out of the S18 and 50km's out of the V11 (just by the maths on the battery size alone).     I've seen a post where someone said they did 80km's though on their V11.        If a chunky bloke like me could get 60-70km's out of an S18 and that'd be my next wheel I think.   Otherwise looks like I'll get a V11 as my upgrade wheel.   

V8 has a 480 Wh battery unless it’s modified. You should get 60 km range from the S18 and 80 km from the V11. The V11 still has a new firmware coming that gives 20-25 km more at lower speeds. What matters quite a bit in battery comparisons is the voltage range available, not percentages. On Kingsongs you can usually go lower than others. The consumption is usually very similar at comparable weight and speed. Motor rating doesn’t affect it almost in any way. Fatter tire should have more resistance, though. 

[t0me]

You got it.   I was working it on 840 when its 480w.  

Well damn,  that makes it an even race for me again with my heart wanting an S18 and my head telling me the V11 is a more sensible choice.
 

[UniVehje]

1 minute ago, t0me said:

my heart wanting an S18 and my head telling me the V11 is a more sensible choice.

This dilemma seems to be very common, indeed! 

I preordered both but have since cancelled the S18. I just need the bigger battery and for my usage a touring wheel is more what I need. Also, per reviews so far, the suspension is already good enough. The S18 is just too close and still not quite enough to justify having it as well. (It was supposed to come for my spouse but she decided to wait and try it out before buying) The S18 looks amazing but that suspension is demanding a lot of compromises. If only it would support a knobby tire and kept the light weight, it would be awesome as an off-roader. As it is now, it’s just not focused enough for that and as a general purpose wheel the suspension is not worth the compromises. 

[Howes Feng]

IMO, there are focus on different market. S18 is focus on off-road rider or who can affordable a extra wheel for fun, its range is defect comparing with V11. According it's off-road wheel, nimbleness is the most important, the larger batteries would affect the performance. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Seems inmotion has a hiddens construction flaw, so it needs to be modified in order to be waterproof:

 

[mrelwood]

12 hours ago, Finn Bjerke said:

Seems inmotion has a hiddens construction flaw, so it needs to be modified in order to be waterproof.

Marty Backe seemed to have knowledge that the bearings will be the rubber sealed ones from the second batch forward.

I know some of you guys are getting impatient waiting for their V11, especially if your distributor had promised unrealistic delivery dates. But these are the exact reasons why the first batch was small, and why the second batch needed a little extra time.

On 7/29/2020 at 11:24 AM, Unicycle Freedom said:

According it's off-road wheel, nimbleness is the most important

Chooch made a video where he compared the V11 and S18. He considered the V11 more nimble, and most notably, a better, more comfortable and much faster wheel for the specific off-road MTB track.

 It is also well known that the V11 tire has much better grip off-road.

 And the production V11 has better shocks than the one Chooch rode. It now has separate negative chamber air valves.

 It’s looking like the V11 is the off-road king of the two after all.

[joca]

2 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 And the production V11 has better shocks than the one Chooch rode. It now has separate negative chamber air valves.

Chooch had a V11 with the nagative chamber in that mountain bike trail comparison with the S18. He talks a bit about the pressures he used here: time-stamped vid.

[Ádám Szitás]

Both chambers, as in left and right. It is a preproduction model, it did not have the negative chambers

[joca]

Ah!

That's very good news then, if he likes it that much without the negative chamber.

Is it only Duf who has reviewed with the negative chamber pumped up then? I think I saw one other review which mentioned the second chamber but they hadn't bothered to pump it up. Has anyone seen a comparison review?