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Kingson s18 versus Inmotion v11?


Finn Bjerke

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  • 2 weeks later...

Aesthetics aside; I think the S18 will be a better out of the box off-road experience. Lets face it, the most important thing is the suspension right? The S18's suspension design is superior. It has more travel (10cm vs the V11's 7cm) and it has a single shock that is "easily" accessible. The V11 has to be partially disassembled to get to the negative chamber, won't be easy to change or experiment with setups once on a trail. The S18 also comes with built in "Kuji pads" (could be a detriment if the placement hurts your ankles).

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9 hours ago, Skecys said:

Lets face it, the most important thing is the suspension right?

Wrong. We have used non-suspension EUCs for years for off-roading, some up to very hard core levels. That capability does not go away with advancements on new wheels.

What is very well known is that for off-roading, especially on an EUC where even a small slip is often a cause for having to bail, tire grip is what makes or breaks the experience and capability. I was blown away the first time I tried a knobby on the MSX. Every other modification or feature you might add or upgrade to feels puny in comparison.

Just today me and my brother ended up on a tiny forest path with a few muddy spots. My H-666 on the MSX is worn badly enough that it doesn't grip at all even in the thinnest mud. My brother's 18XL (C-1488, same as on the V11) did clearly better, and he was able to ride even over fallen trees still when I had to walk. Even the best suspension in the world wouldn't have helped me in the slightest.

The slick H-5102 street tire on the S18 offers no grip at all on mud, and very little on other wet off-road conditions. Even less than my current worn out H-666. The crossover C-1488 of the V11 does much better in this regard. Switch the tires around and even I might choose the S18 for a tough off-road section.

9 hours ago, Skecys said:

The S18's suspension design is superior. It has more travel (10cm vs the V11's 7cm)

V11 has 8.5cm of travel. Either the S18 suspension execution doesn't match the design, or the design just isn't superior. The designs are different, both having pros and cons. On an MTB track Chooch was much faster and in better control on the V11 than the S18.

9 hours ago, Skecys said:

The V11 has to be partially disassembled to get to the negative chamber, won't be easy to change or experiment with setups once on a trail.

That is indeed a downside, since they upgraded the shock after designing the wheel for single valve shocks. Although, I'm pretty sure that once I dial in optimal pressures a bit, I won't be pumping the suspension on the go.

Btw, the top chamber on the S18 is not accessible either when in a riding setup.

9 hours ago, Skecys said:

The S18 also comes with built in "Kuji pads" (could be a detriment if the placement hurts your ankles).

Some riders with a bit more meat in their calves find the S18 pedals too narrow, since they cant fit in properly to the recessed shapes of the shell. That's why DIY pads are being used by some on the S18 as well.

Comparing the wheels on paper is one thing, having the option to try both (or even watching such comparison reviews) is way another.

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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

What is very well known is that for off-roading, especially on an EUC where even a small slip is often a cause for having to bail, tire grip is what makes or breaks the experience and capability. I was blown away the first time I tried a knobby on the MSX. Every other modification or feature you might add or upgrade to feels puny in comparison.

Yeah but you can simply change the tire...

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

V11 has 8.5cm of travel. Either the S18 suspension execution doesn't match the design, or the design just isn't superior. The designs are different, both having pros and cons. On an MTB track Chooch was much faster and in better control on the V11 than the S18.

I mean superior as in the entire chassis has suspension. The S18 is comparable to a car; the wheel moves, but everything else stays level. The V11 would have a spring under your seat, the entire car is unsprung and moves, only your seat remains level. The real world benefits might not matter as much but at least the control board and batteries also get the benefit of a smoother ride on the S18, unlike on the V11.

1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Some riders with a bit more meat in their calves find the S18 pedals too narrow, since they cant fit in properly to the recessed shapes of the shell. That's why DIY pads are being used by some on the S18 as well.

 You can change the height of the pedals on the S18. Chances are you can find a good fit. Also the retail version has bigger, softer pads all around.

Edited by Skecys
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Comparing these two wheels is probably an exercise in futility. ALL the specs and theories in the world are being undermined by build quality differences and other factors. One MAY have a superior suspension setup in theory, but in practice, the sum of the parts is more important. I was SADLY mistaken when I relied on suspension theory and design in my purchase decision. Looks can be deceiving!  I wonder how many other people will allow themselves to come to the same conclusion?

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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1 hour ago, mrelwood said:

Btw, the top chamber on the S18 is not accessible either when in a riding setup.

This is not true. It can be adjusted, aired up/down its just not easy. It is easier to start from zero pressure, but you can adjust it either way. Not worth the trouble tho.. Didnt KS decide to go to another style of shock that has only one valve, thus making it a moot point? If they did, we can surely assume the ks18 will be easier to adjust than the v11, but I'm still not convinced it matters much in the grander scheme.

Edited by ShanesPlanet
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19 minutes ago, Skecys said:

Yeah but you can simply change the tire...

Of course. That doesn’t make the suspension the most important part though, which was what I commented on.

19 minutes ago, Skecys said:

I mean superior as in the entire chassis has suspension.

One aspect of a design doesn’t make the complete system superior. There are probably hundreds of posts already touting the better design of the S18 suspension, either because of unsprung weight or the progressive lineage system. Yet in practice it makes so little difference that the V11 with the “inferior” suspension design is still a better off-roader in some circumstances.

19 minutes ago, Skecys said:

Also the retail version has bigger, softer pads all around.

Some reviewer mentioned them not being very soft after all, especially the part at the rider’s ankle. But sure, they probably fit most riders well enough.

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2 minutes ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Ironic that Kuji designed the pads, yet he immediately added crap cheap bumper pads on top.

Oh right, the same stuff that Chooch used to make the V11 a jumper. :P

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4 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

I guess a persons opinions are only acceptable when agreeable. If not, you MUST be a fool and idiot.

Geez! I must write down that piece of wisdom!:cheers:

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7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Of course. That doesn’t make the suspension the most important part though, which was what I commented on

It is when you are buying a suspension wheel? This thread is about suspension wheels? You can't change the suspension...

7 hours ago, mrelwood said:

One aspect of a design doesn’t make the complete system superior. There are probably hundreds of posts already touting the better design of the S18 suspension, either because of unsprung weight or the progressive lineage system. Yet in practice it makes so little difference that the V11 with the “inferior” suspension design is still a better off-roader in some circumstances.

I'm talking facts, not opinion. KS's design is simply more advanced. Like I said; whether or not this makes a noticeable real life difference, is up in the air until you try them.

7 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Ironic that Kuji designed the pads, yet he immediately added crap cheap bumper pads on top.

He did that on the pre-production model.

7 hours ago, ShanesPlanet said:

Funny how I make a shit video and mention the s18 and get MASSIVE views and mostly bitter people attacking me. I guess a persons opinions are only acceptable when agreeable. If not, you MUST be a fool and idiot.

That video is basically a rant where every point you make is easily refuted. I understand you were angry and needed to vent but you can't expect much positivity there.

 

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