Rywokast Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 ahh, he mad haha.. knows he can't win and it going to have to swallow the cost of shipping and sending it back to gotway... well that's business Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 20, 2020 Author Share Posted July 20, 2020 Actually, I think I'm on the hook for shipping, as per the paypal terms... A small price to pay to put this behind me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 21, 2020 Share Posted July 21, 2020 32 minutes ago, UniMe said: Actually, I think I'm on the hook for shipping, as per the paypal terms... A small price to pay to put this behind me. but free shipping coming to you right? ah that sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 21, 2020 Author Share Posted July 21, 2020 The fella is clearly upset, I'll just tuck away the last string of text expletives and may need to escalate with paypal even though he offered the refund. I feel for the guy, he seems way stressed out and to not be doing well. He said enough in his last rant that I can't really trust that he won't mess with the device when it's returned or lie about it's condition. He also told me to ship it to their warehouse in Quebec when it came from California; I need to check with paypal tomorrow if he can do this or if it in any way invalidates the current arrangement (I'm not even sure if the warehouse is staffed...). I'll decide about escalating to a mediator after that. The first half of our interaction went great. He flipped like a switch when I indicated there may be a problem with the wheel and just became toxic. A bit of shipping cost to move away from that is not a problem at all Truly, the situation in the US is awful in many places. It's no excuse to target and bully others but sometimes people just lose perspective. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Ryder Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Just fyi i was about to do business with freemotion by buying them a used first wheel but apparently i asked too many questions (basics ones when u buy a used wheel) and the tone of the freemotion person started to look a lot like the angry one on your mail exchange . No need to say that i decided to do business elsewhere. Thanks for escalating this and allowing me to dodge a bullet!! Edited July 25, 2020 by Ronin Ryder 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Just now, Ronin Ryder said: Just fyi i was about to do business with freemotion by buying them a used wheel but apparently i asked too many questions (basics ones when u buy a used wheel) and the tone of the freemotion person started to look a lot like the angry one on your mail exchange . No need to say that i decided to do business elsewhere. Thanks for escalating this and allowing me to dodge a bullet!! it wasnt an "MSP open box" was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Ryder Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Quote it wasnt an "MSP open box" was it? i was going back and forth with multiple models that were all "a week use" old . Started to get skeptical when it was a Gotway nikola 84v.... Edited July 25, 2020 by Ronin Ryder 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ronin Ryder said: i was going back and forth with multiple models that were all "a week use" old . Started to get skeptical when it was a Gotway nikola 84v.... okay why in the hell do they have multiple "week old" used models for sale.... thats so sketchy its not even funny... i can almost guarantee this wheel will be up for sale again... it would absolutely suck to be the person who buys it... i think the only place besides an active member of this forum i would consider buying a used wheel safe is speedyfeet 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronin Ryder Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Rywokast said: okay why in the hell do they have multiple "week old" used models for sale.... thats so sketchy its not even funny... i can almost guarantee this wheel will be up for sale again... it would absolutely suck to be the person who buys it... i think the only place besides an active member of this forum i would consider buying a used wheel safe is speedyfeet yep, ive noticed the used market is not very worth it outside of some exceptions in this forum and i'm better off going for a new one directly (sketchy practices, used wheels prices barely below new ones)... Edited July 25, 2020 by Ronin Ryder 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) After opening the dispute and getting blasted by the seller I did end up escalating it to paypal (the next step) for resolution. I have since shipped the wheel out yesterday (Friday) with a signature required and fully insured. I have also initiated contact with paypal to advise them about some of our interactions, they haven't been very responsive but the more information i can document at this point the better. Within a minute of escalating the situation with paypal my phone rung 4 times, I received several more weird/aggressive texts and what I can only describe as paranoid emails. The same pattern happened when I initially opened the dispute. It turns out the location in Laval Quebec is a house in a suburb, not a warehouse. It does leave me wondering if this fella may live there and has a warehouse in LA or something. I can't seem to find an LA address and nowhere, anywhere, can I find the last name of the person I've been in communication with. I can tell by the writing on the website (which contains the same style of grammatical errors) that this fella is probably the owner. As I understand it with PayPal now is that once UPS registers that the item is received they will issue the refund. Edited July 25, 2020 by UniMe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 did that charger even show up yet? sell it separately to piss him off and for your troubles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 Ya, it showed up, it was also returned on Friday -- insured and signature required. No stone left unturneed my friend! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, UniMe said: Ya, it showed up, it was also returned on Friday -- insured and signature required. No stone left unturneed my friend! aaah okay, haha it probably wouldnt even be worth it to sell youd pay the same amount in shipping as you would get for it.. would just be funny because he was such a dick lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 The thing is, I was really calm and reasonable with this guy. He's simply toxic and aggressive, or at least becomes this way quickly when things don't go his way. I've spent some time in California and have met shop owners and people who behave that way -- they basically go off like a firecracker at the first sign of conflict. It's sort of like a preemptive strike to unsettle and overwhelm anyone who might challenge them. It just reads to me as a combination of street entrenched thinking and a type of collective ptsd. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, UniMe said: The thing is, I was really calm and reasonable with this guy. He's simply toxic and aggressive, or at least becomes this way quickly when things don't go his way. I've spent some time in California and have met shop owners and people who behave that way -- they basically go off like a firecracker at the first sign of conflict. It's sort of like a preemptive strike to unsettle and overwhelm anyone who might challenge them. It just reads to me as a combination of street entrenched thinking and a type of collective ptsd. funny how it can turn so quick, i have talked to him before even though ive never made a purchase from the site.. i was contemplating it a few times and he seemed extraordinarily nice on facebook, but the true nature comes out when there is a problem hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daley1 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Why isnt this guy Named and Shamed????Sounds like a dick! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted July 25, 2020 Author Share Posted July 25, 2020 One thing at a time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) This situation finally resolved in my favor. I will give it some thought and perhaps be more transparent about the seller and the challenges I faced. My primary concern continues to be that the seller maintains there can be nothing wrong with a battery pack that was discharged below 1v per cell. He recharged it and sent me a screenshot using the GW app showing 100% charge but no evidence it was actually recharged to 100.8V. All the while claiming everything was fine with the pack and maintaining that I am an idiot who wasted his time and shipping costs even though I payed the return shipping and fully insured the package. Being who I am I'll probably wait until the money actually hits my account. grrrr.... !! Edited August 14, 2020 by UniMe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rywokast Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 1 hour ago, UniMe said: This situation finally resolved in my favor. I will give it some thought and perhaps be more transparent about the seller and the challenges I faced. My primary concern continues to be that the seller maintains there can be nothing wrong with a battery pack that was discharged below 1v per cell. He recharged it and sent me a screenshot using the GW app showing 100% charge but no evidence it was actually recharged to 100.8V. All the while claiming everything was fine with the pack and maintaining that I am an idiot who wasted his time and shipping costs even though I payed the return shipping and fully insured the package. Being who I am I'll probably wait until the money actually hits my account. grrrr.... !! doesn't matter if it charged or not... not that he couldn't have got that screenshot from literally anything.. but the fact that once they get that low they are permanently damaged and always a risk.. he just sounds like an idiot trying to get the last word, glad you finally got it over with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniMe Posted August 14, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 14, 2020 Exactly! I have read enough spec sheets on these battery packs to know they were discharged way below a safe level (2.5 volts per 21700 cell) and experienced permanent damage. How or why is unimportant to me other than the fact that I didn't do it and they arrived that way. The reason I am contemplating posting more information is because this seller has, without doubt, gone on to sell this wheel to someone else. In addition to being an idiot, I see this as corrupt and fraudulent business practice that not only sells a damaged product but also a product that is at increased risk of fire due to the dentritic process that happens in the batteries when they are discharged to that level. One silver lining though, I have learned a LOT about battery packs in a very short time! I also know exactly what to look for the next time I decide to buy a battery powered device 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RagingGrandpa Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) The observations are perplexing... Gotway BMS (even in older wheels) includes undervoltage charge-stop protection. It should not let you fully recharge the pack if any cell is less than ~2V. It is possible to bypass this protection by 'charging through the output' - which would require different connectors on the charger, is inconvenient, and dangerous. In this case, were you ever able to confirm the pack voltage with a manual measurement? (e.g.: at the capacitor leads as @Chriull suggested) Thx p.s. I agree that if you purchase a new wheel and it arrives at 1V/cell, that pack is not considered "new condition" and you are owed a replacement. Edited August 14, 2020 by RagingGrandpa 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UniMe Posted August 14, 2020 Author Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) I'll share more information once the money hits my account. I can tell you with certainty that the packs were discharged to about 1v per cell. Perhaps the under volt protection mechanism failed and this allowed him to charge it back up? I'm not sure. I do know that when I asked the seller to provide me with assurance that charging the battery from the severely discharged state would be safe he ignored the question and just insisted that I charge it. He maintained that the battery had never been charged, that all new batteries are like this and that I'm a f'n idiot, a-hole etc., for not believing him. Edited August 14, 2020 by UniMe 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xorbe Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) Cells that get drained down slowly can often be recovered with a gentle trickle charge and will leap back up to 3.0V, if I understand correctly. It's when they are forcefully drained (ie high current demand) that they really get damaged. Having said that, a wheel should not show up in that state of charge, that's unacceptable. Edited August 14, 2020 by xorbe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UniMe Posted August 15, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 15, 2020 (edited) I believe it is mentioned earlier in this thread, but I purchased this MSP from Freemotion https://freemotionshop.com/ What is not clear on the freemotion website, or by the phone number with a California area code, s that freemotion is simply an operating name for Robot Canada Inc. A quick search of the public business registry in Quebec reveals that this company is registered to Rachid Farissi and to a residential address in Laval. When I shipped the wheel back it was to the registered business address in Laval rather than to the warehouse in LA, California where it originally shipped from. I also came to understand that although the owner of this company was texting and calling me from a phone number with an Cali area code he was actually in Laval and personally received the wheel there. Mr. Farissi is the person I was in contact with, he also has a public linkedin profile where this picture was pulled from. There is no way to escalate the issue within Freemotion to someone who will hold Mr. Farissi accountable as he is clearly the owner. More information can be obtained online by google searching this man in Quebec, he has clearly been living there for many years while maintaining an internet presence for Freemotion that leads buyers to believe the company is based out of California. I will simply state that Mr. Farissi was abusive and came after me in a manner that bordered on criminal harassment. It was only when I told him that I was documenting all of his calls, texts and emails that he finally backed off. He used unnecessary expletives in his emails and texts to me and as mentioned above he insisted that I charge a wheel that arrived discharged to to an unsafe level (21 volts for one pack, 24 volts for the other -- both measured directly from the pack). Combined these packs displayed as 28 volts on the EUC World app and registered 0% charge on the EUC World app battery monitor when the app was set to 100V. I would encourage any buyer to exercise extreme caution when purchasing a new product from Freemotion and to simply never purchase an open box item from this seller. Mr. Farissi has consistently maintained that the wheel recharged without issue and it is my impression that he intended to sell it on to another customer. I will refrain from posting our email communications, but I will say that the intensity and anger that came from this man was absolutely unreasonable. Edited October 9, 2022 by Chriull Removed picture 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangman Posted August 21, 2020 Share Posted August 21, 2020 I am happy to hear this issue has been resolved (granted, a small loss due to return shipping & insurance) but better than the alternative in comparison to the descriptions given. Forgive me for asking & perhaps I should start a new thread for this, I am becoming more aware of my own lack of understanding, my own ignorance & ineptness with these wheels & their batteries as I would have just taken the man for his word & plugged the wheel in to recharge. I am glad however that you posted this experience here & more-so that I stumbled across it. I have so many questions. So my questions are in regards to batteries in general; First, did you know the battery was too far gone to be saved other than your friend; Quote An experienced EUC rider, who also has several wheels from GW, came over. It was his 'expert' opinion that the state of charge is depleted to about 1 volt per cell, well below the 3.3 volt shut off level for GW wheels, and that it will not be possible to recover the battery packs. How did he diagnose this? Why would recharging a depleted battery be so bad? Redfoxdude mentioned; Quote If the cells really are down to 1V, odds are they are permanently damaged and cannot be recovered. I personally wouldn't plug in a battery in this state, it's not worth the risk! How do the batteries become damaged at a low voltage? What is the risk? Chriull mentioned charging the depleted batteries is "outright dangerous!". You had mentioned; Quote I have read enough spec sheets on these battery packs to know they were discharged way below a safe level (2.5 volts per 21700 cell) and experienced permanent damage. Can you point me (& others who may have some questions regarding these batteries) in the direction of these spec sheets please? Thank you again for sharing this experience. And I also hope it doesn't dampen your desire to learn to ride, these wheels are really too much fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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