Escooters to be legalised in the UK.

[Gasmantle]

Not directly about EUC's but this article may be of interest to some.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331

The legalisation only applies to hired vehicles and is only a 12 month trial.

I'd like to think it is at least a step in the right direction but feedback from the general public in the comments section at the bottom of the page shows there is significant opposition to the move.

 

[Neon EUC]

We are working on it

[Planemo]

I dont think a picture of a rider carrying two bags of stuff (however light) portrays a good image at all. An euc is the worst possible vehicle to carry cargo on, unless its central in a non-floppy backpack. Hell, even riding with a long selfie stick can be a challenge. Nothing of any weight should be in the hands at all imo.

[ir_fuel]

13 hours ago, Gasmantle said:

Not directly about EUC's but this article may be of interest to some.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53219331

The legalisation only applies to hired vehicles and is only a 12 month trial.

I'd like to think it is at least a step in the right direction but feedback from the general public in the comments section at the bottom of the page shows there is significant opposition to the move.

 

What kind of capitalistic bullshit is this.

So I can rent a Ninebot ES4 and ride it around town, but I cannot use my privately owned Ninebot ES4 and ride it around town.

WTF.

Edited July 1, 2020 by ir_fuel

[Neon EUC]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

I dont think a picture of a rider carrying two bags of stuff (however light) portrays a good image at all. An euc is the worst possible vehicle to carry cargo on, unless its central in a non-floppy backpack. Hell, even riding with a long selfie stick can be a challenge. Nothing of any weight should be in the hands at all imo.

You obviously didn't see the news article then about how the shopping was being made for delivery to parents for food for kids free of charge. And using an echo friendly mode of transport was also mentioned. Love to know how that isn't a good image

[Gasmantle]

1 hour ago, ir_fuel said:

What kind of capitalistic bullshit is this.

So I can rent a Ninebot ES4 and ride it around town, but I cannot use my privately owned Ninebot ES4 and ride it around town.

WTF.

Yea, I kinda thought the same thing.

My worry is it gives the owner of the hire company a great incentive to try an prevent legalisation of privately owned vehicles.

[stephen]

4 hours ago, Planemo said:

I dont think a picture of a rider carrying two bags of stuff (however light) portrays a good image at all. An euc is the worst possible vehicle to carry cargo on, unless its central in a non-floppy backpack. Hell, even riding with a long selfie stick can be a challenge. Nothing of any weight should be in the hands at all imo.

I always go to the shop on mine i have no imbalance whatsoever

[Gasmantle]

1 minute ago, stephen said:

I always go to the shop on mine i have no imbalance whatsoever

I guess we all do occasionally but if you are using that kind of image to promote EUC's then it probably isn't a good choice.

Let's face it we are trying to get these things legalised so our case needs to be as strong as possible, it won't take a lot to steer MP's away from legalisation.

[stephen]

Just now, Gasmantle said:

I guess we all do occasionally but if you are using that kind of image to promote EUC's then it probably isn't a good choice.

Let's face it we are trying to get these things legalised so our case needs to be as strong as possible, it won't take a lot to steer MP's away from legalisation.

I thought we wanted these things for commuting and going to the shops instead of going in your car,,im lost i don't just use it for fun i use it for shops, obviously not a big shop but 2 little bags is nothing, anything heavy like booze i use my backpack , 

[Neon EUC]

Have it. London is the dogs bollocks. Have that

Edited July 1, 2020 by Neon EUC

[Gasmantle]

We do want them for light shopping but surely you can see that if you are trying to get governments to legalise them it would make more sense to carry shopping in a backpack.

It's not so much what we view as safe it's what the MP's see as safe that matters in the overall decision making.

 

[Planemo]

55 minutes ago, Neon EUC said:

You obviously didn't see the news article then about how the shopping was being made for delivery to parents for food for kids free of charge. And using an echo friendly mode of transport was also mentioned. Love to know how that isn't a good image

No need to be sarky.

Yes I did see the news article. He could have been carrying unicorn shite, my feeling remains that backpacks should be used, just the same as it isnt ideal to swing bags of shopping from bicycle handlebars either.

[Planemo]

13 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

It's not so much what we view as safe it's what the MP's see as safe that matters in the overall decision making.

Exactly my point. It seems bizarre that someone can be so vocal about the NYC riders but thinks a picture of a guy on a unicycle in the road carrying what appears to be 2 bags of heavy shopping looks totally safe to the uninitiated.

[Nic]

The reason its rental scooters only is so they can control the speed of riders and have them covered by insurance. The driving license requirement helps ensure they are responsible adults that know the highway code. At least they are going with 15 mph speed limit now instead of the 12.5 mph originally proposed. I hope they don't wait the full 12 months before allowing privately owned scooters on the road, but they almost certainly will.

Rental scooters do not get people out of their cars as they aren't available from your front door, so they typically replace trips by bus/taxi/walking.

I also noticed that there are a lot of people that are opposed to electric scooters posting on comments sections of news websites. This is to be expected as most of these people have never ridden an electric scooter and so see no reason to change the status quo. It was probably the same when cars and bicycles were introduced. They see no need for PEVs as bicycles and e-bikes are already available. What they don't understand is that bicycles and e-bikes serve a different user demographic mainly consisting of recreational, fitness and some commuting trips. You rarely see someone doing a grocery shop on a bicycle.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Nic

[ir_fuel]

5 minutes ago, Nic said:

Rental scooters do not get people out of their cars as they aren't available from your front door, so they typically replace trips by bus/taxi/walking.

It has been proven that their main competitor is not the car, but public transport. It has nearly zero effect in decreasing the amount of cars in the city.

35 minutes ago, Planemo said:

No need to be sarky.

Yes I did see the news article. He could have been carrying unicorn shite, my feeling remains that backpacks should be used, just the same as it isnt ideal to swing bags of shopping from bicycle handlebars either.

There is a big difference. You need your hands to steer a bicycle. You do not need your hands to steer an EUC.

[Planemo]

1 minute ago, ir_fuel said:

There is a big difference. You need your hands to steer a bicycle. You do not need your hands to steer an EUC.

I'm not saying it cant be done. I have carried a Z10 in one hand whilst riding an MSX but pleasant it was not, and I doubt didn't look too kosher to onlookers. That's all I'm trying to say.

And it's not really anything to do with steering, it's about having weight, that's largely free to move, away from the centre of mass. Simple physics. Lets be honest, plenty of people have fallen off EUC's without carrying anything. For me, holding weight whilst riding only hinders control. YMMV.

[ir_fuel]

3 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I'm not saying it cant be done. I have carried a Z10 in one hand whilst riding an MSX but pleasant it was not, and I doubt didn't look too kosher to onlookers. That's all I'm trying to say.

Ok, that's impressive  

3 minutes ago, Planemo said:

And it's not really anything to do with steering, it's about having weight, that's largely free to move, away from the centre of mass. Simple physics. Lets be honest, plenty of people have fallen off EUC's without carrying anything. For me, holding weight whilst riding only hinders control. YMMV.

Yeah I know what you mean. In the beginning I could hardly move my hands around without losing balance. Right now I'm pretty confident I can ride with a small grocery bag in one hand, as long as that bag does not contain 10 bottles of water  

[Planemo]

3 minutes ago, ir_fuel said:

Yeah I know what you mean. In the beginning I could hardly move my hands around without losing balance. Right now I'm pretty confident I can ride with a small grocery bag in one hand, as long as that bag does not contain 10 bottles of water  

Granted, it all depends what you are carrying! The guy in the clip may have been carrying pillows for all I know, and I'm not knocking him - he may have been totally safe - it was just how I felt it looked to the general public, that's all. And the fact it was on a prime UK TV program rather than buried in a YT video somewhere in the ether.

[Gasmantle]

I think the pertinent point is not whether you can carry something but how it looks in the case for legalisation. All of us can carry things but it isn't a good look when it comes to the legalisation debate.

The reality is EUC legalisation is going to be an uphill struggle in the UK - just look at the comments section at the foot of the new article in my original post. A significant proportion of the public are against even low speed hired scooters let alone EUC's - anything that paints a negative image is going to make the case for legalisation harder to win.

The guy in the photo was delivering food items to the vulnerable during the lockdown but has totally ruined what should have been a great PR exercise, he should have had his hands free or even made a publicity stunt out of just visiting the elderly on his EUC. If that guy had say been wearing a HV vest and going around visiting people and a video went viral he would have advanced the cause greatly - instead he has ruined a great opportunity.

 

[Gasmantle]

All ready there is mounting opposition :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53253194

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51375903

Legalisation of EUC's isn't going to be an easy battle.

[Planemo]

9 minutes ago, Gasmantle said:

Legalisation of EUC's isn't going to be an easy battle.

I dearly hope I am wrong, but IMO its not going to happen with EUC's as we know them. The DVSA will never be happy with a single wheeled vehicle, let alone one with no mechanical brakes.

The best we can hope for is privately owned scooters which may take the heat off us, but could also make us an easy target too.

The problem we really have in the uk (compared to many other countries) is that our vehicle testing depts are rigourous and picky to say the least.

[Gasmantle]

2 minutes ago, Planemo said:

I dearly hope I am wrong, but IMO its not going to happen with EUC's as we know them. The DVSA will never be happy with a single wheeled vehicle, let alone one with no mechanical brakes.

The best we can hope for is privately owned scooters which may take the heat off us, but could also make us an easy target too.

The problem we really have in the uk (compared to many other countries) is that our vehicle testing depts are rigourous and picky to say the least.

Yeah, I'm sure you are right.

I can't ever see EUC's being legal on UK roads, the best we can hope for is the police turning a blind eye if they see someone riding in a safe manner.

The only remote chance of getting of getting legalisation is if there is suddenly a massive change of mindset and people see them as a sensible urban transport solution to commute to the office etc but with emphasis on higher powered wheels catering for enthusiasts like us we have no chance.

I've spoken to my MP whilst discussing something else and he was far from convinced about them.

[Planemo]

This is the latest (30/06/20), government-endorsed publication AFAIK:

https://www.smarttransport.org.uk/news/latest-news/e-scooter-trials-to-start-in-uk-from-july-4?utm_campaign=01_07_2020_Smart_Transport_weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Smart Transport - weekly newsletter&utm_source=adestra&utm_term=E-scooter trials to be allowed on UK roads from July 4

They give 500w and 15.5mph but specifically state '2 wheels, aligned along the direction of travel'. It is this bit which will continue to impact any possible legislation of EUC's I fear. Not to mention PACTS (who I detest with a passion), who seem fanatical about destroying any hope of decent legislation, made very apparent by their comment: 

"The subject of whether e-scooters should be made legal for us in the UK has been a hot topic in the inudstry, with PACTS, the transport safety advisers to the Government, saying there are ‘few if any public benefits' to the legalisation of e-scooters in the UK and is opposed to trials of the micro mobility solution."

[Nic]

1 hour ago, Planemo said:

This is the latest (30/06/20), government-endorsed publication AFAIK:

https://www.smarttransport.org.uk/news/latest-news/e-scooter-trials-to-start-in-uk-from-july-4?utm_campaign=01_07_2020_Smart_Transport_weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=Smart Transport - weekly newsletter&utm_source=adestra&utm_term=E-scooter trials to be allowed on UK roads from July 4

They give 500w and 15.5mph but specifically state '2 wheels, aligned along the direction of travel'. It is this bit which will continue to impact any possible legislation of EUC's I fear. Not to mention PACTS (who I detest with a passion), who seem fanatical about destroying any hope of decent legislation, made very apparent by their comment: 

"The subject of whether e-scooters should be made legal for us in the UK has been a hot topic in the inudstry, with PACTS, the transport safety advisers to the Government, saying there are ‘few if any public benefits' to the legalisation of e-scooters in the UK and is opposed to trials of the micro mobility solution."

PACTS is not helping society move forward with their narrow-minded views ... they don't understand the thing they want to ban and they don't make any suggestions on how to mitigate their concerns ... no they just want to ban PEVs. What an incompetent bunch of muppets. Their statements just reinforce the fact that they are clueless and can't be trusted to advise government. From July 4th ... e-scooter independence day UK!

Edited July 2, 2020 by Nic

[Huxley]

Change will happen, there's too many out there who are already riding, and will quite happily flout the laws in order to force the government's hand.

It's just a matter of time.

Once they become legal, just watch them take off. I don't have an euc, but you bet I will once this is all sorted out.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Huxley