20" Wheel

[Mono]

10 minutes ago, Nic said:

That is exactly my point and is why we have such limited choice of tyres for EUC.

OK, I wasn't aware that there is a huge choice of different 16"x2.3" or wider tires on the market from which I could pick if I could put them on the V8. Is there?

Edited December 21, 2019 by Mono

[Nic]

20 minutes ago, Mono said:

OK, I wasn't aware that there is a huge choice of different 16"x2.3" or wider tires on the market from which I could pick if I could put them on the V8. Is there?

I am talking in general ... how many tyres are available for MSX, Monster, mten3, V8? How many for typical bicycles in 26" or 700c? A ton more... and from the better known manufacturers like Schwalbe, Continental, Dunlop, Vittoria, etc. ... not just CST, CYT, Kenda that need to be imported from AliExpress.

Most users seem to struggle finding suitable tyres as replacements ... even with a V8 I found it hard to source tyres and it is a relatively common size at 16"x2" approx. Lots of kids bike tyres available, but too skinny and not suitable. I can imagine its even harder to source replacements for MSX or Monster.

To get more choice you need more users and to get more users with limited niche product you need to standardise available sizes. Its probably not going to happen.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Nic

[RockyTop]

10 hours ago, mrelwood said:

 

And this too!?! U spyin’ on me or somethin’?!? 

Knowing that you will do all the hard work and research on the best wheel of 2020 and realizing my opinion will be the same as yours, I think I will just wait to see what you get and copy your order. ........  If you could, please send a copy of your order to Jason with a note that says, This is what Rocky Top wants.  That would be great!!  Thanks man!! 

[mrelwood]

3 hours ago, Nic said:

I am talking in general ... how many tyres are available for MSX, Monster, mten3, V8? How many for typical bicycles in 26" or 700c? A ton more...

What could the wheel manufacturers do about that though? A 26” is not at all a suitable tire size for an all-purpose EUC. 16” is, and they are already using the most common 16” tire widths. But having a shell that fits a 3.0” wide tire on a wheel that ships with a 2.5” tire would look quite ugly. As if something was missing, as if it was shipped with an inferior tire choice. Would not sell well, I’m sure.

You can of course install a 2.5” or even a 2.125” (not sure) tire on the 16X. Isn’t that already what you are hoping for?

3 hours ago, Nic said:

Most users seem to struggle finding suitable tyres as replacements ... even with a V8 I found it hard to source tyres and it is a relatively common size

Again, what can the manufacturer do about that? As you said, it’s already a common size.

Btw, most shops that sell EUCs have by now started selling replacement tires as well. But there is no point for any shop of any kind in the US to take a full selection of various 16” tires for sale. They are a rare item and can easily be ordered from Ali, with free shipping. Even if all EUC riders of the US would buy their tires from one shop, I imagine most of them will never even replace the tire. And even the most active riders don’t need a new tire every year.

How exactly would you imagine the issue to be fixed?

3 hours ago, Nic said:

to get more users with limited niche product you need to standardise available sizes.

I can’t for the life of me figure out the connection here. Has someone you know turned down buying his first EUC because the tire sizes are not standardized? (Which they really already are.)

[Mono]

5 hours ago, Nic said:

how many tyres are available for MSX, Monster, mten3, V8? How many for typical bicycles in 26" or 700c?

And why is that? Because the market for standard 14-18" tires is much much much smaller than for standard 26" or even larger tires.

5 hours ago, Nic said:

To get more choice you need more users and to get more users with limited niche product you need to standardise available sizes.

The tIres we use have been standardized a very long time ago and EUC producers invariably abide by the most common standard sizes within the range of sizes which are useful in our case. So in this case they do IMHO already the exact right thing (we can argue about shell widths, of course). I don't see how creating new or different tire standards could help us in any way.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Mono

[Nic]

18 minutes ago, Mono said:

And why is that? Because the market for standard 14-18" tires is much much much smaller than for standard 26" or even larger tires.

The tIres we use have been standardized a very long time ago and EUC producers invariably abide by the most common standard sizes within the range of sizes which are useful in our case. So in this case they do IMHO already the exact right thing (we can argue about shell widths, of course). I don't see how creating new or different tire standards could help us in any way.

Maybe you have a solution? Or do we just accept things as they are?

Let's for example take a look at the Xiaomi M365 Scooter ... it has a tyre made specifically for it and there are lots of other manufacturers using this same tyre on their admittedly very similar scooters. There are also lots of different tyres to choose from because the size is common and lots of scooters using it. For EUC in 16" size there is very wide variation in tyres used by each manufacturer and so the tyres are not common and hence choice is restricted and tyres difficult to source. But, thats just how I see it, and I appear to be alone in this regard, so lets just leave it there. No point in beating a dead horse so to speak.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Nic

[mrelwood]

 

3 hours ago, Nic said:

do we just accept things as they are?

I’m still trying to see what you think the problem is exactly, and what any instance could do about it.

3 hours ago, Nic said:

For EUC in 16" size there is very wide variation in tyres used by each manufacturer

Do you mean that there are a lot of different 16 x 2.125 tires being used, or that several different widths are being used? Different tires ride differently, so naturally the manufacturer would choose a tire size and model that supports the ride feeling they are after.

3 hours ago, Nic said:

and so the tyres are not common and hence choice is restricted and tyres difficult to source.

Even if all EUCs used the exact same tire size and model, it would be a rare tire compared to a single Xiaomi scooter. Also, ChaoYang H-5102, CST C-1488 and the Kenda V10F model are already common tires amongst different EUC models. Is this what you were after?

I think the 2.125” V8 is the only wheel tight enough not to fit all other tire models of the original size. Which is why they silently switched to ship it with a 1.95” tire. With practically all other EUCs, you can already use any tire of the same size. And looking at Ali and Ebay, the choices already are numerous. Isn’t this what you hoped for? How is the choice restricted?

Where would you buy the scooter tires, by the way? It’s not like any car tire shop or bicycle store carries them either, so buying online is what you’d do anyway.

3 hours ago, Nic said:

But, thats just how I see it, and I appear to be alone in this regard, so lets just leave it there.

If someone is alone with their opinion, it wouldn’t be a surprise if there was something about the issue that they have misunderstood or doesn’t know yet. And discussing it might already find a solution, or render it to be a non-issue after all. So please, do explain in more detail!

[Nic]

8 hours ago, mrelwood said:

I’m still trying to see what you think the problem is exactly, and what any instance could do about it.

Do you mean that there are a lot of different 16 x 2.125 tires being used, or that several different widths are being used? Different tires ride differently, so naturally the manufacturer would choose a tire size and model that supports the ride feeling they are after.

Even if all EUCs used the exact same tire size and model, it would be a rare tire compared to a single Xiaomi scooter. Also, ChaoYang H-5102, CST C-1488 and the Kenda V10F model are already common tires amongst different EUC models. Is this what you were after?

I think the 2.125” V8 is the only wheel tight enough not to fit all other tire models of the original size. Which is why they silently switched to ship it with a 1.95” tire. With practically all other EUCs, you can already use any tire of the same size. And looking at Ali and Ebay, the choices already are numerous. Isn’t this what you hoped for? How is the choice restricted?

Where would you buy the scooter tires, by the way? It’s not like any car tire shop or bicycle store carries them either, so buying online is what you’d do anyway.

If someone is alone with their opinion, it wouldn’t be a surprise if there was something about the issue that they have misunderstood or doesn’t know yet. And discussing it might already find a solution, or render it to be a non-issue after all. So please, do explain in more detail!

Maybe EUC manufacturers should include a spare tyre in the box, so that we don't need to hunt around to source replacements for a while, although that might not suit those that don't like the standard supplied tyre. Seems like we are stuck with what we have with a niche product.

[mrelwood]

 

26 minutes ago, Nic said:

so that we don't need to hunt around to source replacements

Aliexpress & Ebay. I wouldn’t call that ”hunting around”.

26 minutes ago, Nic said:

Seems like we are stuck with what we have

I have tried or used half a dozen tires on my 16S, and 4 on the MSX. The MSX replacements were all specialized off-road tires, and there would’ve been several more to try if I wanted a street tire. I really wouldn’t call that ”being stuck”.

To me it seems like you are seeing an issue where there isn’t any, at least to most of us.

[Mono]

4 hours ago, Nic said:

Maybe EUC manufacturers should include a spare tyre in the box

I am sure that 99% of EUC sellers would be perfectly happy to supply this extra tire to any customer who wants it and pays for it. Just ask for it the next time you buy a new EUC, problem solved.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Mono

[Mono]

On 12/21/2019 at 11:16 PM, Nic said:

Let's for example take a look at the Xiaomi M365 Scooter ... it has a tyre made specifically for it

There is nothing wrong with that. I guess it's a matter of how we think of cause and effect. You seem to be believe a specifically made tyre will lead to big sales. I happen to believe that big sales are the reason why Xiaomi can afford to have specifically made tyres. There is nothing wrong with a specifically made tyre if it abides by the established standards and is affordable.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Mono

[Nic]

22 hours ago, Mono said:

I am sure that 99% of EUC sellers would be perfectly happy to supply this extra tire to any customer who wants it and pays for it. Just ask for it the next time you buy a new EUC, problem solved.

Are you referring to the 99% of EUC sellers that do not sell spare tyres or do not have any in stock?

13 hours ago, Mono said:

There is nothing wrong with that. I guess it's a matter of how we think of cause and effect. You seem to be believe a specifically made tyre will lead to big sales. I happen to believe that big sales are the reason why Xiaomi can afford to have specifically made tyres. There is nothing wrong with a specifically made tyre if it abides by the established standards and is affordable.

I didn't say anywhere that a specifically made tyre will lead to big sales ... I said that more manufacturers will be likely to offer tyres in a certain size if that size is popular, so one way to make a tyre popular (in a niche market) is to have many scooters use the same tyre, and if the numbers are large enough, then more choice will become available in that size (rim/height/width).

[mrelwood]

1 hour ago, Nic said:

Are you referring to the 99% of EUC sellers that do not sell spare tyres or do not have any in stock?

Ewheels, Speedyfeet and Eunicycles.eu sell spare tires to many EUCs, and have them in stock. Those three are amongst (if not) the largest EUC sellers in the world. I didn’t even include Aliexpress sellers, but at least the ones I’ve used also sell replacement tires. Where did this 99% come from? Did you actually look if any retailer sells tires?

1 hour ago, Nic said:

more manufacturers will be likely to offer tyres in a certain size if that size is popular

You also said correctly that 16x2.125 is a popular size. And all manufacturers sell EUCs with that size. So we are already there!

1 hour ago, Nic said:

if the numbers are large enough, then more choice will become available in that size (rim/height/width).

Do you think that it is possible for EUC usage and tire replacement to become popular enough for tire manufacturers to start catering for us specifically? I don’t.

Also, how much choice do you actually wish for if the current ones are not enough?

[Mono]

3 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Where did this 99% come from?

That's what I wrote, I may have overestimated the percentage of sellers who also provide spare parts, so let's go by 50% then 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Mono

[Nic]

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Ewheels, Speedyfeet and Eunicycles.eu sell spare tires to many EUCs, and have them in stock. Those three are amongst (if not) the largest EUC sellers in the world.

They don't always have stock ... granted you look now you find some stock and conclude there isn't a problem. Also, when there is stock it is usually a choice of one, if you are lucky maybe two.

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

You also said correctly that 16x2.125 is a popular size. And all manufacturers sell EUCs with that size. So we are already there!

Not all bicycle tyres are suitable for EUC as they are not robust enough.

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Do you think that it is possible for EUC usage and tire replacement to become popular enough for tire manufacturers to start catering for us specifically? I don’t.

The world is still at the early stages of electric vehicle adoption.

5 hours ago, mrelwood said:

Also, how much choice do you actually wish for if the current ones are not enough?

I would prefer to see tyres from top brands like Schwalbe, Continental, Michelin, Dunlop, etc  ... not from CST, CYT, or any of the other brands that are not known for producing the best tyres.

Do you think cyclists would be happy with the same meagre selection? No need to answer.

This is tiresome (no pun intended) so I won't be replying again if you comment as I am worn out explaining.

[mrelwood]

 

2 hours ago, Nic said:

This is tiresome (no pun intended) so I won't be replying again if you comment as I am worn out explaining.

I understand. We see the matter quite differently, but that’s cool. 

[Finn Bjerke]

Waterproofing is a DIY thang methinx. also "Off roading" does not mean submarining.....