Popular Post sparetire55 Posted August 13, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) I'm just teetering over 100mi/160km on my 1st batch KS 16x and thought I'd do a little review since I feel like I have a decent grasp on the wheel now. This is my first wheel and it seems like many are looking at this wheel for their first as well. Hopefully my perspective will help. About Me 5ft 5in 190lbs full gear, 215lbs in commute mode (extra lighting, water, backpack, laptop, notebooks etc) Age: 30's Bad knees (3 surgeries on the right knee, thanks snowboarding!) Grew up snowboarding/skateboarding/ATV/motorcycle riding Evolve Carbon AT electric skateboard was my first foray into PEV and I've been hooked ever since Ridden a lot of different "hoverboard" devices with varying wheel sizes (I think this helped me get used to the self-balancing aspect quicker) Days 1-2/0-10mi Created my Kingsong account in the app (using telephone number as recommended here), bound the wheel to my account and tried it out. The wheel felt really top heavy. I'm not sure if it was from the pedal height or the battery placement. Also it felt quite wide on my calves (thanks to some short legs I suspect). I kept the wheel at whatever PSI it came from the factory. It seemed highly recommended to keep the PSI low when starting out. I didn't measure what it came as but it had some squish to it when standing on the wheel. It took a lot of quick jerky movements to stay on top of it and not flop over. Quick jerky movements are hard to accomplish on a heavy, wide wheel. Got the hang of the wheel surprisingly fast considering all of the YouTube videos I'd seen about starting out. Within about 2-3 passes in my backyard I was able to ride fairly well at speed. SPEED IS YOUR FRIEND WHEN LEARNING ON THIS WHEEL! So long as I kept my speed 5-10mph, I could ride straight, turn, and take small bumps without much issue. Trying to go walking speed was a nightmare. I got my first gouges on the wheel trying to go walking speed too close to a curb. For some reason I could make left turns much tighter and more comfortably than right turns. Maybe that's because of my right knee and right leg being weaker? Days 2-3/10-30mi Felt a lot more comfortable on the KS 16x. Rode around the block a few times and was confident enough to hit the default warning beeps occasionally (didn't mess with any settings in the app yet). Coming to a stop the wheel still felt top heavy and required more pressure from my leg that stays on the wheel than I thought was necessary to keep it upright. It flopped down between my legs when I stopped a few times because of this. Low speed was still kind of tricky for me, but I could somewhat maintain balance at walking speed with lots of twisting and shifting weight back and forth on my feet (much like on a bicycle when going VERY slowly). Feet and calves got VERY sore after riding for more than 10 minutes. I added Multiseal (a better Slime) to the tire and pumped it up to around 40PSI (better to have too much than too little before going on a long ride). I also followed the instructions my dealer sent me to update the bluetooth module. I don't listen to music while I ride (or even connect my phone to the bluetooth audio), so I never really experienced the issues this was intended to fix. Still, the more stability the better. Day 5/30-60mi Trial run of my commute route with some exploring tacked on. My commute is about 11 miles via bike trails and includes about 1/4mi of gravel or light off-road. The first 10 miles my feet/calves were KILLING ME! I played around with foot placement on this ride a lot. I found if I hang my feet WAY off the front so the balls of my feet are off the pedals, I can ride for what feels like forever without my feet/calves getting so sore. My shoes have basically no support and very thin soles so I'm looking into some different footwear. I changed the alarms in the Kingsong app on this ride as well to as high as they would let me as per @Unventor's suggestion here: I occasionally got speed wobbles when accelerating hard above 20mph, but I chalked that up to foot placement and weak EUC muscles. When I shifted my weight around and do some light carving, I could maintain acceleration and speed while getting rid of the wobbles. Turning at speed was weird. The wheel constantly wanted to stay upright, so trying to bank into a turn required some unfamiliar weight shifting. When I put a lot of weight on the inside foot, the wheel wanted to carve HARD instead of just casually banking along the curve of a turn. I just slowed down on turns in the meantime until I could figure it out. I also realized I clamp the wheel with my legs/calves a lot while riding so much so that I started to bruise. Day 6/60-80mi First full day of commuting and wearing full commute gear. I've really got to get a different backpack and lighten up my load. My back was actually the most sore on this ride due to standing 30+mins with the full weight hanging on me. Got a few speed wobbles when going fast, but made some small foot placement adjustments to test if it made much of a difference. I didn't get any speed wobbles when braking hard as some have experienced. Still tried to figure out banking on the turns, but started just pushing the wheel over into the turn with my outer leg. Seemed to work okay. Tried loosening my grip on the wheel with my legs/calves. Much more comfortable and felt just as stable. Day 7/80-100mi Second day of commuting wearing full commute gear. Back is killing me today. Seriously need to take stuff out of the pack and/or get a different backpack. Foot placement was mostly figured out and the wheel feels really stable. Only got 1 speed wobble under hard acceleration and realized my weight/feet weren't completely balanced. I think that's the primary cause. Haven't messed with the PSI in the wheel since I added Multiseal. Guess it was around 35-40PSI at this point and still felt great to me. I started noticing when going down hills I got a very slight but gentle tilt back (battery less than 80% but over 50% every time) and when going up hills I got a very slight but gentle tilt forward. This also seems to happen intermittently when braking hard or accelerating hard. It's VERY gentle and slow and I've experienced this on "hoverboards" as well. It's almost like the self-balancing is needing to "catch up" to what I'm actually having the wheel do. I've been using Darknessbot so maybe I needed to reverify the ride mode with the Kingsong app and reapply all the settings. Darkenssbot graphs show I haven't gone above 30amps of power draw and the wheel seems to hover around 55C (35C ambient) when riding on mostly flat with some short hills. Notes: Wheel powers on when plugged in. Can see red light and flashing blue light within the wheel and can connect to it over bluetooth. Sometimes the fan comes on when plugged in and stays on until unplugged. Headlamp is awesome! Has a low-beam that shines pretty close to the wheel an a high-beam that extends out a bit further. Bright enough to get home riding at night IMO. LED color lights a little underwhelming. Would have liked higher density. Beeps every time you connect to the wheel to the Kingsong/Darknessbot app or change a setting or apply a change to a setting. "Brake lights" actually work pretty well and are fairly visible from the rear. TL;DR KS 16x is a great wheel with plenty of torque, range, and comfort and runs fairly cool Feels top heavy and wide especially for us shorter folks It likes to stay upright when travelling above 15mph going around curves and takes some unfamiliar techniques to bank into turns Feels stable on loose gravel as well as asphalt and cement Edited August 13, 2019 by sparetire55 10 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 Glad I could help out with the app. I like you style of review a lot. Actually we might share si challenges since I have problems with my knees, hips, lower back and shoulders. But my right knee is the major problem. I myself are waiting for my KS16X to arrive still hopefully by next after this weekend. And hopefully the firmware update will be released by then. As you get more miles into your feet you are likely to be less affected to have balanced feet stand. I now tend to stand with left foot in front (my gas) and right foot a bit behind (my balance and brake). I started to adapt stand after about 1000-1200 km or so. After 2500 km my natural leg suspension has become much better so I don't lose control as easy on a suprice bump. Really nice to read your review. Brings me back to when I started to ride in April-is last year, and a huge smile of the life altering change this has been for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Congrats @sparetire55! Great review of your 7 day journey! 3 hours ago, Unventor said: I have problems with my knees, hips, lower back and shoulders. But my right knee is the major problem. Wow all of your pains make me hurt! ! What’s going on with your right knee? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyGrayCanada Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Great review. I'm jealous, I think it's taken me 800 km to get to the point you're at in a week. I'll try your trick of hanging toes off the front of the pedals to see if that helps with foot soreness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Kim Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 nice review! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjunlee Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 Congrats on the 16X. Just some quick points: take it slow, speed gets you into trouble real fast. I’m amazed you’re going 20+ mph already 😱 take lots of breaks: my first 700 miles, I needed to take a break every 15 minutes or else my control degraded quite a bit regarding overhanging your feet forward to reduce strain: this works because you’re biasing your center of gravity forward, such that when in a neutral stance, your weight is forward. So it takes less to no effort to accelerate. The downside is you’re going to have less braking efficiency. Very good observation about the wheel carving hard instead of banking turns. Now that you’ve pointed that out, I don’t know if I’ve ever experienced a banking high speed turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unventor Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Congrats @sparetire55! Great review of your 7 day journey! Wow all of your pains make me hurt! ! What’s going on with your right knee? Well in general I have up and down days. This monday I hit a watercovered manhole at 25kmh (15mph) it was about 5cm (2") going down and 15cm (6") high cumming up. It wasn't there before my vacation, but going to work first day in 3 weeks I guess they needed acces to it. I recall it was being covered with gravel before. I hope that my KS16X tyre will have a little better suspension effect compared to my KS18L. The review from @sparetire55 is actually one of the most structured and inspiring I have seen (for a long time and ever as rated: ever). As the Cartilage on the inside lower part on my right knee is eaten up by inflammation the bone hit bone on a hard impact as I got from above picture. The reason was I only saw it as a 1" deep and never had issues with it before. I look forward to more reports from you @sparetire55 Edited August 14, 2019 by Unventor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Unventor said: AS the Cartilage on the inside lower part on my right knee is eaten up by inflammation the bone hit bon Ugh....there are knee braces available that will unweight the inside (medial) compartment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparetire55 Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 16 hours ago, Unventor said: As you get more miles into your feet you are likely to be less affected to have balanced feet stand. I now tend to stand with left foot in front (my gas) and right foot a bit behind (my balance and brake). I started to adapt stand after about 1000-1200 km or so. After 2500 km my natural leg suspension has become much better so I don't lose control as easy on a suprice bump. Really nice to read your review. Brings me back to when I started to ride in April-is last year, and a huge smile of the life altering change this has been for me. I do tend to ride with my knees pretty bent forward in case of the unexpected bumps (which is hell on the quads/knees). During my research I almost purchased a Onewheel XR instead of the KS 16x. Most of the horror stories on Onewheels were from leaning forward with your body (like this / ) instead of keeping your body over the wheel and using your legs/knees/toes to press forward on the device (body more like this [ ). I think those horror stories have saved me a few times already on my commute when the shadows hit just right on the bike path and I don't see a tree root. Because I have my knees bent instead of being stiff and leaning forward with my body, I'm able to absorb the bump without much issue. Scary to think what would happen if I hit those stiff. I'll have to try the staggered stance one of these days once my muscles build up a bit more. 12 hours ago, TonyGrayCanada said: Great review. I'm jealous, I think it's taken me 800 km to get to the point you're at in a week. I'll try your trick of hanging toes off the front of the pedals to see if that helps with foot soreness. Thanks for the compliment! I attribute it to the hours on Youtube I spent preparing, and all of the balance sports I've participated in growing up. Hanging my feet off the front of the pedals definitely helps with endurance, but you do sacrifice some agility, bump absorption, and braking power by doing so. I really only ride like that when going for long rides (20+mi stretches). I'd suggest keeping your speed at/under 15mph while you're testing it out. 5 hours ago, chrisjunlee said: Congrats on the 16X. Just some quick points: take it slow, speed gets you into trouble real fast. I’m amazed you’re going 20+ mph already 😱 take lots of breaks: my first 700 miles, I needed to take a break every 15 minutes or else my control degraded quite a bit regarding overhanging your feet forward to reduce strain: this works because you’re biasing your center of gravity forward, such that when in a neutral stance, your weight is forward. So it takes less to no effort to accelerate. The downside is you’re going to have less braking efficiency. Very good observation about the wheel carving hard instead of banking turns. Now that you’ve pointed that out, I don’t know if I’ve ever experienced a banking high speed turn. Thank you for the pointers! I do tend to cruise closer to 15-20mph just for the safety aspect. As I ride, I'm constantly asking myself, "What would happen if the wheel just cut out right now?" and I try to position my body in a way that will minimize the impact/damage if that were to happen. Also, I'm wearing the full gambit of protection (full-face helm, wrist guards, gloves, elbow pads, knee pads, and shoes with good ankle support) since my hands are my money makers. Since my commute is only 11mi or so, I'm not too worried about taking breaks, but on the longer rides I can definitely feel when my muscles are fatigued and my reaction time slows. When you take a break do you typically leave the wheel powered on or do you turn it off? 5 hours ago, Unventor said: As the Cartilage on the inside lower part on my right knee is eaten up by inflammation the bone hit bone on a hard impact as I got from above picture. The reason was I only saw it as a 1" deep and never had issues with it before. My cartilage is toast in my right knee as well. Docs say I have less than 1/3 of meniscus left and the next steps are injections since we want to procrastinate a knee replacement as long as possible. I wish you a speedy recovery! Lots of ice, elevation and ibuprofen are my go-to's when doing a lot of high-impact (on the knee) sports. 3 hours ago, Rehab1 said: Ugh....there are knee braces available that will unweight the inside (medial) compartment. Do you have some links? Most of the knee braces I've found (over the counter) don't offer much medial/lateral support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparetire55 Posted August 14, 2019 Author Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) Day 8/100-120mi I messed around with foot/weight placement quite a lot. I was able to consistently reproduce hard acceleration speed wobbles and hard braking wobbles. When I ducked my feet more on the pedals (more like this \ / instead of like this | | ) and placed the weight on the outside edges of my feet/pedals, hard acceleration speed wobbles disappeared entirely. When hard braking, the foot placement and weight distribution seemed to matter less, but I noticed the more I clamped my legs/calves on the wheel when braking, the less braking wobbles happened. I'm going to keep playing around with this and see how consistent it is. I reached a max speed of 29mph (according to Darknessbot) on my commute. I was a little late leaving for work and hit some freshly paved asphalt for about 1mi, so I decided to turn on the jets for a bit to see how it felt. It was scary... Not because the wheel was unstable or felt like it was maxing out, but because falls at that speed would do some serious damage (even with full protection). So I think I'll keep it closer to 20mph from now on. Haven't messed with the PSI in the tire much, but I think that's the next experiment after I determine the consistency of my acceleration/braking wobbles solutions. Edited August 14, 2019 by sparetire55 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted August 14, 2019 Share Posted August 14, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, sparetire55 said: Do you have some links? Most of the knee braces I've found (over the counter) don't offer much medial/lateral support. Sure thing: https://www.amazon.com/slp/medial-unloader-knee-brace/g4parr4uno7arge Amazing what Amazon sells these days. Here is an example of the biomechanical principals behind the design. Edited August 14, 2019 by Rehab1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sparetire55 Posted August 23, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2019 250mi Update The Tire At about 200mi the tire felt like it "broke in". It got really soft and bouncy making me think that I had a flat or a slow leak. Every time I checked the pressure though, it came back 39-40psi (using an Accurite guage). I rode about 200mi on 40psi and 50mi on 25psi. Everyone who said to lower the tire pressure WAS RIGHT!!! It completely changed the wheel for the better. Small bumps like sidewalk cracks and small branches have basically disappeared. The wheel feels so much more flowy and carvy and it has really upped my confidence level. Firmware I updated the wheel to 1.05 the day it was released. I'm not sure if it was the firmware or the horizontal calibration, but afterwards the wheel felt absolutely locked in. There was very little pedal float and it really felt like an extension of my body. After about 30 miles on that firmware, the pedals are starting to float a little again so I may try another horizontal calibration. By pedal float, I mean when I accelerate/decelerate quickly or go up/down a fairly steep hill, afterwards, the pedals seem to need a second to "catch up" to being parallel with the ground again. I haven't listened to music or even connected my phone to the bluetooth audio, so I can't provide any feedback if the issues related to that were resolved. Since the update, whenever I plug in the wheel, the brake lights flash. Kind of a weird bug, but since I charge my wheel in the garage it doesn't bother me much. The Shell At 200mi I noticed the wheel getting "creaky" when I would put pressure on the shells with my legs. I tightened up all the screws on the shell (underneath the pads) and the set screws that hold the pedal rods in and it seemed to eliminate most of the creaking. I also took that opportunity to add some loctite to the screws to prevent this in the future. I've had a few falls on the wheel (mostly low speed and were my own fault, not the wheels) and even though the shell and handle look pretty beat up, they still feel really solid. 2 out of the 3 falls I've had sent the wheel tumbling 10 feet or so and other than my wounded pride and some pretty deep scratches it seems to be holding up well. I would have expected some cracks in the plastic or some of the screw mounts to have broken. My plan now is to take off the shells and handle, mask off the pads, and spray the shell exterior and handle with some truck bed liner spray. That should give them a little more durability from scratches and a little more rigidity from my stupidity. Overall, I'm still loving this wheel. I've explored my city so much more and found so many neat little things I would have never known about were it not for this awesome method of transportation. My muscles are giving out long before the battery does on this so I've got some work to do at the gym! 6 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambeau Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Great Review. Glad that you took time in wrting up it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty Backe Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 8/14/2019 at 8:46 AM, Rehab1 said: Sure thing: https://www.amazon.com/slp/medial-unloader-knee-brace/g4parr4uno7arge Amazing what Amazon sells these days. Here is an example of the biomechanical principals behind the design. Bummer. All the good ones are Unavailable 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab1 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Marty Backe said: Bummer. All the good ones are Unavailable Try this link: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=oa+knee+brace+unloader&sprefix=oa+knee&ref=nb_sb_ss_i_2_7 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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