Augus Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 I'm not sure but it could be a new model with more battery. What is your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 Nice find! I'm not sure about the 1360Wh as stated on the sticker. Maybe it is a typo from the normal size, 1036Wh? Some digits switched? Because 1360Wh doesn't really fit the usual 84V battery sizes. These are 1036Wh (like the 18L has now), 1295Wh (haven't seen this configuration anywhere), 1554Wh (what usually is "1600Wh") when using 3500mAh battery cells, and 858Wh (never seen), 1073Wh (never seen), 1288Wh (what usually is "1300Wh") when using 2900mAh cells. These are the 2 cell types that KS have used until now. None of these numbers seems like it could be 1360Wh. Apparently there is a 1600Wh (1554Wh) variant of the 18L coming, and the 90km range the guy gets matches up pretty well with that. That much range on a smaller 1360Wh battery, I don't think that would work. So I believe this is the 1600Wh and the 1360Wh sticker is a typo. But that' just a guess, I might be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eufp Posted September 19, 2018 Share Posted September 19, 2018 The guy, in a previous video, had info written, that it was 1036Wh model, and it is from EcoDrift, they are not yet selling a bigger battery KS18L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 It is strange that it makes 90Km with a 1036Wh battery. KS has already installed 1360Wh batteries in the 18A and 18S. models In addition, the serial number starting with KS18L2 suggests that it is a new model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 This is more likely a larger battery version, than a sticker error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Augus said: It is strange that it makes 90Km with a 1036Wh battery. KS has already installed 1360Wh batteries in the 18A and 18S. models In addition, the serial number starting with KS18L2 suggests that it is a new model. The 18L actually is very economic and efficient...and nope...that is a total normal 18L with 1036wh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted September 20, 2018 Author Share Posted September 20, 2018 I really doubt it. In the revision of Speedyfeet, the real autonomy is about 40Km. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Augus said: I really doubt it. In the revision of Speedyfeet, the real autonomy is about 40Km. Yeah, and i doubt the review of speedyfeet...i dont know what he has done there...but in General i never saw such a biased review by him…... I have several Friends that have the 18L with other experience and there is also for example Dufs video, who had on one ride 26,5 miles and one 30miles and on both still 45% battery left...and he also measured by real GPS, not the KS app... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Augus said: It is strange that it makes 90Km with a 1036Wh battery. KS has already installed 1360Wh batteries in the 18A and 18S. models In addition, the serial number starting with KS18L2 suggests that it is a new model. Good point, but these are 67.2V wheels so that number works. But the 18L is 84V so it can't be 1360Wh, so it's either 1036 (90km with a 95kg rider? I don't believe it) or a bigger battery like 1600Wh. 18 minutes ago, US69 said: Yeah, and i doubt the review of speedyfeet...i dont know what he has done there...but in General i never saw such a biased review by him…... I have several Friends that have the 18L with other experience and there is also for example Dufs video, who had on one ride 26,5 miles and one 30miles and on both still 45% battery left...and he also measured by real GPS, not the KS app... Biased? He gets the range he gets, how could he be biased there? But Ian always gets horrible range from all his wheels, so I guess that is the combination of his weight, riding style, speed and maybe colder weather. Must be extra bad with the 18L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Just now, meepmeepmayer said: Good point, but these are 67.2V wheels so that number works. But the 18L is 84V so it can't be 1360Wh, so it's either 1036 (90km with a 95kg rider? I don't believe it) or a bigger battery like 1600Wh. Biased? He gets the range he gets, how could he be biased there? But Ian always gets horrible range from all his wheels, so I guess that is the combination of his weight, riding style, speed and maybe colder weather. Must be extra bad with the 18L. You should look the complete Video...then you know what i mean. And nope, actually the Russian Video makes sense, flat terrain all the time, not that Ultra fast! we have a 105kg rider here who did 80km on the 18L...2%left....so my only guess to Ian's range is that one of the battery packs is not working at all. Duf had that at the start with his 18l and got the same worse (half)mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I did watch the video. Not sure what else you're referring to. I'm 80kg and get 65km (ideally) at ~30km/h with my 1300Wh, and once I got 80-85km (not sure) riding a bit slower and very slow for half of the ride. So 95kg + 90km + 1036Wh, it really confuses me Maybe someone should tell Ian to check the batteries or how much he charged with a charge doctor, so he can see if all batteries are connected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eufp Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 28 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: So 95kg + 90km + 1036Wh, it really confuses me Don't say that me too, have to do the test, so that we know whether the numbers are real? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 minute ago, meepmeepmayer said: I did watch the video. Not sure what else you're referring to. I'm 80kg and get 65km (ideally) at ~30km/h with my 1300Wh, and once I got 80-85km (not sure) riding a bit slower and very slow for half of the ride. So 95kg + 90km + 1036Wh, it really confuses me Maybe someone should tell Ian to check the batteries or how much he charged with a charge doctor, so he can see if all batteries are connected. Yeah, actually you would see it just if the charge time takes 4-5 or 9-10 Hours... Actually the 18L -really from all i hear- and Friends own them, too, gives back a Pretty fantastic Efficiency. The 105kg doing 80plus km is actually from a friend. Ian is the first (and only) who reports such a bad mileage. (Beside Duf when he only had one working battery, and after repair it was great) Perhaps "biased" is a the wrong word…"false reviewed" would match it better: He exaggerates a lot About all the loud voice Alarms...what about if he just switches them off to have Beeps instead? not mentioned at all that this is possible…. The 4/10 handle sensor experience...perhaps calibrating the sensor would have helped :-) Another thing: When you pic up the Wheel...and it stops the Motor, it Beeps, when you slightly lift it up...if no Beep Comes, just dont lift it Spinning up, just try again. And then i ask my self...if that 26miles he got with the KS is that worse...(and he makes a really big Thing out of it) , why is the 21Miles he got in the Z10 review not even worth mentioning? And some other Points that at least raised my eyebrows…. And that really isn't the first time that there are several faults in what he is pushing out in his live.....some examples: - More Mosfets equals more safety - you can ride a Wheel with blown Mosfet - More voltage means more torque etc etc …. And btw.: My Monster that i bought used from England, before was "in repair" by him for the old owner, this repair must have lately been done again...as it wasnt proper enough. Dont get me wrong, he is doing great Things for the community with his Video reviews...but technic wise, he is more than often on the wrong path…... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 21 hours ago, Augus said: I'm not sure but it could be a new model with more battery. What is your opinion? Yeah, that must be a new long range 18XL beta test mule. He got MSX range with that thing, and he looks to be a substantially-sized guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreeRide Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 21 hours ago, US69 said: Yeah, and i doubt the review of speedyfeet...i dont know what he has done there...but in General i never saw such a biased review by him…... I have several Friends that have the 18L with other experience and there is also for example Dufs video, who had on one ride 26,5 miles and one 30miles and on both still 45% battery left...and he also measured by real GPS, not the KS app... Duf's test was a joke. He Never even tested it. Range test means ride it until you can't, you can state the speed which equals can't. You don't do some simpke riding and then ask people to extrapolate a possible max. While many are upset with the SF test they don't seem to understand the test he did. He's not saying his test represents the average riders range, and not the maximum range. The SF test may not be what you want, but at least it's a real test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meepmeepmayer Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 hours ago, FreeRide said: Duf's test was a joke. He Never even tested it. Range test means ride it until you can't, you can state the speed which equals can't. You don't do some simpke riding and then ask people to extrapolate a possible max. While many are upset with the SF test they don't seem to understand the test he did. He's not saying his test represents the average riders range, and not the maximum range. The SF test may not be what you want, but at least it's a real test. Didn't watch the Duf video, but if he really extrapolated, it's pointless, that doesn't work. You're absolutely right. The only proper range test is just to ride until you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 48 minutes ago, meepmeepmayer said: Didn't watch the Duf video, but if he really extrapolated, it's pointless, that doesn't work. You're absolutely right. The only proper range test is just to ride until you can't. He didnt extrapolate anything...On both rides he just did this both complete 26,5 or 30 miles rides and then stated what battery he had left...in both cases that have been 45%. He didnt do ANY extrapolating like "This means this or that or ..or this means it is 50 for a complete battery"........ it is very funny. SF is doing a test, and People think he is the holy Gral of EUC knowledge....which he just isn't. Others are Video documenting their test, like the Russian rider, and then the reaction is "not possible"...while he just isn't driving that fast and just doing it constantly on a totally flat Terrain. Also I have this 82km from the 105kg rider...One complete ride from 100% to 2% battery People just believe what they want to believe...not even a Video evidence can Change that…… 18 hours ago, Lutalo said: Yeah, that must be a new long range 18XL beta test mule. He got MSX range with that thing, and he looks to be a substantially-sized guy. I can assure you the 18XL is not even produced yet...not even ONE single prototype...and he is also stating that it is the normal 1036 wh version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 45 minutes ago, US69 said: I can assure you the 18XL is not even produced yet...not even ONE single prototype...and he is also stating that it is the normal 1036 wh version Well, you know what they say about language communication: If you speak three languages you are trilingual. If you speak two you are bilingual. If you speak one language you are probably an American ??? For me, the part of the video where he stated that his test mule was the 1036wh version was waaay lost in translation. So, if he got that kind of range - nice ☺?. I have never directly range tested my 18L. I know that a typical 20 mile round trip takes less than half of my battery if it is fully charged. I am pretty sure I could get 40+ miles on a full battery, but I would have to substantially shift some riding parameters to make 55 miles happen; it would really be pushing it for me. Perhaps, if I rode a steady 10 miles per hour on very flat, smooth terrain on a warm day with very mild breezes. I have just watched a video of a real range test of someone getting 55 miles, so I believe that the wheel is capable of achieving the range. In terms of range, I think that a 1600wh battery though would make 55 miles possible for me in my normal riding situations. That is why I think the 18XL is a good idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US69 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Lutalo said: have never directly range tested my 18L. I know that a typical 20 mile round trip takes less than half of my battery if it is fully charged. I am pretty sure I could get 40+ miles on a full battery, but I would have to substantially shift some riding parameters to make 55 miles happen; it would really be pushing it for me. Perhaps, if I rode a steady 10 miles per hour on very flat, smooth terrain on a warm day with very mild breezes. What People mostly dont have in their calculations is that "range test" is not standardized…. When you do it -similar- like the Russion in this Video...with Steady 25kmh...not even once braking or accelerating...you will probably have a usage of About 11-13wh per km...so a range of 80km is achievable on a 1000wh Wheel..... When you have a range test Offroad with 35kmh doing a lot of acceleration/braking...you can get down to 20-25wh per km..... Thats why probably some range announcements of the Producers are not that wrong...they are just under laboratory requirements...like said: Steady 20-25kmh, 60-70kg rider, 25degree Celsius etc etc..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 52 minutes ago, US69 said: What People mostly dont have in their calculations is that "range test" is not standardized…. When you do it -similar- like the Russion in this Video...with Steady 25kmh...not even once braking or accelerating...you will probably have a usage of About 11-13wh per km...so a range of 80km is achievable on a 1000wh Wheel..... When you have a range test Offroad with 35kmh doing a lot of acceleration/braking...you can get down to 20-25wh per km..... Thats why probably some range announcements of the Producers are not that wrong...they are just under laboratory requirements...like said: Steady 20-25kmh, 60-70kg rider, 25degree Celsius etc etc..... Got it. I am gonna do a test under my normal riding conditions and see what results I get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 On 9/20/2018 at 6:14 AM, Augus said: I really doubt it. In the revision of Speedyfeet, the real autonomy is about 40Km. This range review would be disconcerting if there were not already so many 18L riders getting much better mileage than he is reporting. 20 -25 miles? I get that distance repeatedly without using +/- half my battery - his results seem wildly divergent from what I and others achieve on a regular basis ?????. Now that I have turned on my lift function, I will duplicate the lift test he conducted to verify his results - no test is valid until it can be several-times duplicated with similar results. I have never used the lift function because of the lockup issues that were once thought linked to the sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 Well, from what I read in this thread and received comments, my conclusions are: 1. That the unicycle model of Russian video must be the standard of 1036Wh (the label would be an error), and its autonomy of 90Km can be in the most favorable conditions of driving (low speed, no headwind, few accelerations and braking, wheel with high pressure, warm weather). 2. Regarding the revision of SpeedFeet there are two explanations. One would be that some of the batteries were damaged, and another would be that he conducts with high consumption (high speed, much acceleration and braking, low pneumatic pressure, low ambient temperature). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Ian (SpeedyFeet) has stated he tests for "worse care scenarios. He rated the Tesla also at 25 miles range. I prefer that type of testing. I believe 25 miles range is the minimum one will get with the KS18L barring exceptionally demanding duty. Of course many and perhaps most will get more but when I plan a route it is always around 25 miles. That way I ride like I want, knowing I can at worse limp home. I use Marty's hill climbing videos not to see which wheel wins bragging honors but to get an idea how they will do on "protracted" climbing. It's interesting to see a wheel go up a 12 foot plank that is some crazy steep angle, or tackle one of LA's, SF's, Pittsburgh's, etc toughest hills. For my daily commuting and riding , however, how I wheel will do on a 1-4 miles climb (even at a significantly less steep angle) is more meaningful to me. I don't think bigger and bigger batteries is the way to go, but faster charging instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lutalo Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Augus said: Well, from what I read in this thread and received comments, my conclusions are: 1. That the unicycle model of Russian video must be the standard of 1036Wh (the label would be an error), and its autonomy of 90Km can be in the most favorable conditions of driving (low speed, no headwind, few accelerations and braking, wheel with high pressure, warm weather). 2. Regarding the revision of SpeedFeet there are two explanations. One would be that some of the batteries were damaged, and another would be that he conducts with high consumption (high speed, much acceleration and braking, low pneumatic pressure, low ambient temperature). Right. His test riding style was not visible in the video, but we can extrapolate from his results that barring damage to the wheel, his riding style must be quite demanding in his tests; I think I did hear him say something in the video about his results representing a range minimum. Perhaps his disappointment with range was merely the result of flawed expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augus Posted September 21, 2018 Author Share Posted September 21, 2018 6 hours ago, US69 said: I can assure you the 18XL is not even produced yet...not even ONE single prototype... But is it still true that you said a few days ago?: " To my Information...orders are now collected...Wheel gets produced and should be Ready for sending out end October! " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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